Ted Williams or Joe DiMaggio?
Jersey
Posts: 542
in Sports Talk
The "Players You Despise Most" thread got me thinking. As I mentioned, I never liked Joe DiMaggio as a person. But, I wonder what others think about him and who would you rather have on your team - Ted Williams or Joe D?
Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from the wise.
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Steve
Steve
But, then again, Joe D sold quite a few Mr. Coffee machines during the 1970's.
<< <i>Joe D...........I'd have been in many world series. >>
Yes, if your team was the Yankees; but in that case, you'd have been in many World Series even without DiMaggio. In addition to DiMaggio, the Yankees had 10 other Hall of Famers in DiMaggio's short career - at least two others on the field with DiMaggio every season; in Williams' much longer career, he played alongside only 3, and none at all after WWII (and those three include an ancient Lefty Grove). If your team was instead the Browns or the Senators - sorry, but you and Joe are going to have to buy tickets to see the World Series.
{Full disclosure - in case anyone actually counts - yes, they each played with a few more HOFers than stated above - I'm only counting the ones who played most of at least one season, not seasons like Paul Waner's brief appearance with the Yankees at the end of his career, or Lou Boudreau's cameo with the Red Sox in 1951.}
<< <i> in Williams' much longer career, he played alongside only 3, and none at all after WWII >>
.... better check your facts in 1939 williams played with jimmy foxx,joe cronin,bobby doerr and lefty grove (age 39 15-4) thats 4 hall of famers plus williams & all had outstanding years) and at the end of the season they trailed the champion yanks by 17 games. hall of famers in line-up and winning are not a sure fire thing(look at the yankees 2000-2005) BUT i do agree that williams was a better hitter and over the course of his career better than Dimaggio....but during their time in the league together dimaggio was considered the best player in the AL. he was a great center fielder, team leader and great hitter with the game on the line,who LED the yankees to the world series.
Our team "was" the Yankees.
again with the "ifs"
<< in Williams' much longer career, he played alongside only 3, and none at all after WWII >>
Bobby Doer
Steve
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<< <i>who would you rather have on your team - Ted Williams or Joe D >>
Ted Williams, the best hitter the game has ever seen (or ever will, most likely)
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Of course Williams was the better hitter, and Dimaggio the better fielder(at a more difficult position). It isn't as if Dimaggio was Willie Mays defensively though. And Williams wasn't as bad as some people say or believe.
Simply by virtue of playing six more years (with those six extra years at an extremely high level of play), Williams' value is higher.
In their prime's it is a lot closer, but WIliams still has a small edge.
As in the case of teammates, how many Innings pitched did Joe Dimaggio have when the staff led the league in ERA SIX TIMES in his career? Or the four 2nd place finsihes? Or the three 3rd place finishes. THey never finished lower than 3rd.
There is no doubt that the Yankees were a better team, and that is the reason why Boston finished second often. That is why it is nonsense to judge individuals based on TEAM accomplishments. It isn't a matter of IF"S, it's a matter of WHY's, as in why it occured.
I can hear it now, "Well Joe Dimaggio was the reason why they had good pitching, because of his defense." To eliminate that idea early, the Yankees led the league in ERA the two seasons right before they got Joe D., and the two seasons right after he retired.
Please nobody get the impression that I am saying Joe D. didn't matter, though the Yanks probably could have won some of those WS without him, like they did the two years after he retired. But they also needed him, like when he pushed them over the hump when he joined them. Regardless, when discussing Ted and Joe, it makes no sense to judge them based on how good their teammates were. Judge them on what they did.
Edited to add: The Yanks also finished first or second in runs scored almost every year too. Boston was the second best team in baseball, it just so happened that the first was always in their league!
no mention of who was better or who had more value.
at times it could also be said that answers here can be construed as faulty, especially where opinion is concerned.
My reply like many others here added to the original post. I only went as far as assuming that the 2 players respective teams were valid. No where in my post did I claim that Joe D was the only reason the Yanks were in all the series. I figured that since they were that id rather have him on my team which in this case were the Yanks. Id have all that WS money that was needed back then as we did not make the money that players make today and 2nd jobs were in many cases needed. Since I was the 25th man on the roster I depended on that loot each year.
If Joe D and Ted both played for the same team, say the Browns I possibly would pick Ted.
Steve
<< <i>Those who can say "with out a doubt" when choosing between these two greats are $ucking idiots
And those who don't choose and only insult those who have a clear cut favorite are an even BIGGER idiot.
All I can say is that Ted Williams was definitely a better hitter. Even Joltin' Joe said so. However, Joltin Joe' was the best all around player since he could run, field, throw, etc. better than Williams. Even Ted Williams stated that he could care less about his fielding and running.....his main focus was hitting and it paid off.
Every time someone asked Joe DiMaggio what he thought about Ted Williams, the response was always the same: "Best hitter I ever saw". Someone would follow up and ask about Williams' running, etc. and Joe would respond: ""Best hitter I ever saw". That is why Joe was always announced as the "great living ballplayer", and Ted Williams would always hear "There goes the greatest hitter who ever lived."
Both were difficult to be around, but if I had to select one......ummmm...I just can't do it.
If you people ever heave time, read those two books I just mentioned and then answer the questions. Of note, DiMaggio's book is very biased but just look through that.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
<< <i> in Williams' much longer career, he played alongside only 3, and none at all after WWII >>
.... better check your facts in 1939 williams played with jimmy foxx,joe cronin,bobby doerr and lefty grove (age 39 15-4) thats 4 hall of famers plus williams & all had outstanding years) and at the end of the season they trailed the champion yanks by 17 games. hall of famers in line-up and winning are not a sure fire thing(look at the yankees 2000-2005) BUT i do agree that williams was a better hitter and over the course of his career better than Dimaggio....but during their time in the league together dimaggio was considered the best player in the AL. he was a great center fielder, team leader and great hitter with the game on the line,who LED the yankees to the world series. >>
With God as my witness, I had no idea that Bobby Doerr was in the HOF; I graduated from college and got married the year he made it and I guess I just missed it.
Bobby Doerr?? Hell, he wasn't as good as Bobby GRICH.
But thank you; as unsettling as the knowledge is, I have learned something.
But, of course, no team that allowed over a run and a half more per game could hang with the Yankees in 1939 no matter how many HOF hitters they had in their lineup.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Just a point of clarity. DiMaggio was announced as such because he insisted on it (in fact often contractually) being announced at any public event, even at Yankee stadium. As for the Williams quote, Ted once waxed that he'd like to hear someone say that as he walked by someone. That's all.
Anyways, I'd obviously select Ted. Then Musial, Mays, and DiMaggio not necessarily in that order. In my opinion, easily the four greatest ballplayers ever (not considering Ruth of course, who is in a league of his own, for good and bad)
give me a real slugger,
Al Weiss (don't forget, he belted 10 homers in his 10 year career! What a monster, slugger he was!)
rbd
P.S. Joey had Marilyn!
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<< <i>That is why Joe was always announced as the "great living ballplayer", and Ted Williams would always hear "There goes the greatest hitter who ever lived."
Just a point of clarity. DiMaggio was announced as such because he insisted on it (in fact often contractually) being announced at any public event, even at Yankee stadium. As for the Williams quote, Ted once waxed that he'd like to hear someone say that as he walked by someone. That's all. >>
True about that for both players, but DiMaggio only insisted upon it after being formally awarded the title at a banquet by the voters of the baseball community. It always had to be announced that way and he always had to be the last announced.
You have a great group of 4 on your list, BTW.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
I heard the Red Sox declined it ...
another one ...
gotta love the Great Sports Debate!!!
SD
Two different versions:
"One night, MacPhail got so drunk with Red Sox owner Tom Yawkey that they agreed to trade Joe DiMaggio for Ted Williams, straight up, no cash considerations, no player to be named later; DiMaggio for Williams in a blockbuster for the ages. Only a stinging hangover the next morning prevented another chapter in the history of the Yankees and the Red Sox."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4736039
"After the war, MacPhail joined the Yankees, and he had three managers (Joe McCarthy, Bill Dickey, and Johnny Neun) quit on him in 1946. He also came close to arranging what would have been one of the biggest trades in ML history while drinking with Red Sox owner Tom Yawkey. The pair allegedly agreed to swap Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio, but when they sobered up Yawkey asked for Yogi Berra as well, and the deal was nixed."
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/M/MacPhail_Larry.stm
That's what I think too. Makes for great stories though.
I would recommend both books, great reads.
I would pick DiMaggio as I think he displayed a more vocal leadership, Williams seemed to do all his talking with his bat. I do believe Teddy Ballgame was the better hitter of the two, but Joe D had the edge as an all-around player.
JoeBanzai
I would pick Williams, probably over any ballplayer from the last 70 years, with a possible exception of Willie Mays, but would certainly be quite pleased to have a great talent like DiMaggio as well.
At separate card shows some years back I was lucky enough to get an in person autograph from each of those three HOFers, on photos purchased at the shows. Joe was very distant, did not recognize a "thank-you' for the paid-for signature, and was ushered into the show with great privacy. Ted walked in by himself , engaged in banter with the crowd as he strolled to the table. He spoke directly to many of the people as he signed. Willie was similar to DiMaggio, just a little more open.
This of course was a very limited personal observation(s), and proves nothing, just might be interesting to some.
When I was younger, many years back, I did think Williams might have been a bit overrated. As time passed and I learned more about his accomplishments as a player, his off- field charities, his brilliant military record, and saw various interviews, he had become my all-time favorite player.
I couldn't agree more, except Mays was better ... but not on this thread. I could only imagine what the Mick may have done had he not busted his knee. Or if Mike Schmidt played in Wrigley ...
Ted Williams was better than Joe D ... and that is a no brainer.