Where can I get the number of dies used information

dbldie55

Does anyone know where I can get the number of dies used for Business strike and proof strike coins (particularly Liberty Nickels)?

kranky

I bet PhillyJoe would know the answer.

PhillyJoe

I don't have die information for that 1883-1912/3 timeframe yet. IF it is at the mint archives, I could put it on my list for a future visit.

Joe

kranky

I can give you a little head start...

1913 obverse dies: 1.

dbldie55

Kranky, I am sure they sent more than that to San Francisco

FredWeinberg

In the Breen book, he lists the number of dies used for
obverse and reverse, proof and Unc, dies, as per the
info he researched out of partial Mint Archives..........

dbldie55

Thanks Fred. That will be my first stop when I get home tonight.

dbldie55

Okay, I have my Breen book and I do not see this info anywhere. (unless I am using the wrong Breen)

astrorat

The information should be in the Annual Report of the Director of the Mint (especially from 1883 to 1912) . . . although if I recall correctly, they will list the total number of dies and not parse them out between proofs and business strikes. Sometimes the proof dies were also used for business strikes.

Oops . . . I need to edit this (the more I think about it). The Mint reports will have the number of dies produced (or shipped - depending on the Mint). I do not believe it has the number of dies actually used. Nonetheless, the Mint reports are interesting reading.

Lane

PhillyJoe

I actually did have a couple of year's Mint reports at work and Lane is correct.

I jotted down the info for 1883, '84 and '86. It didn't make sense so I wanted to defer to Breen. Breen has about a dozen books, one deals with dies. Most if not all are out of print.

Anyway, the number of dies for 5 cent pieces are roughly as follows (memory is an inexact science)

1883: 58
1884: 784
1886: 1250

That's how they are listed. Like Lane said, no distinction between obv and rev; business or proof. The Director's Report is a summary of operations and markets; not a detailed analysis.

Joe

dbldie55

Thanks for the info. I guess the die numbers and the number of coins struck are sometimes opposite on how you would think.

lathmach

You can get the information concerning how many obverse and reverse dies there were.
It's trying to determine how many marriages there were of the dies that drives a man nuts.
But it's fun.

Ray

Dismeguy

I've listed all the known seated dime obverse dies by date within the descriptions of my NGC Registry Set. This may not help you for nickels, but though I would offer anyways.

Seated Dime NGC Registry Set with # obverse dies by date and mintmark

MikeInFL

Sorry for the sidetrack, but I must say, Gerry, that is a most impressive registry set. Particularly the 1850-0 -- WOW!

Dismeguy

Mike...thanks for the comment. Had the set on display at a small Maine show on Sunday. You should have seen the looks from the local dealers and some attendees. It was fun and I sold 4 memberships to the web-book.

I'm thinking of doing a display at a larger show in the future.

DaveG

Bowers has information on the number of obverse and reverse dies in his Silver Dollar Encyclopedia.

Breen, in his Encyclopedia, will sometimes have obverse and reverse die information listed in each varities' paragraph, as in: "3020 1840 O Small letters; small round o. Several vars. In all, 6 obvs., 7 revs., with other dies left over from 1839."

Conder101

The Mint Directors reports are probably the only place you will find that information anymore. At one time there was a record book in the Mint Archives that recorded all of the dies used between 1844 and 1925. That book and some other mint records were destroyed by Mint Director Eva Adams in the 1960's. Her successor Stella Hackel Sims went even further destroying most of the working mint records for the period of 1900 to 1960.

PhillyJoe

The ANA library or archives may be helpful if you're a member.

Walter Breen published a book in 1962 called "Dies & Coinage" It's only 38 pages so I'm not sure it can be called a book.

Back to the Mint Director's Reports, this is what I have in my records. Please forget what I was guessing last night.

Total Dies for 5 cent pieces:

1883: 1493
1884: 678
1885: I'm missing this page
1886: 7

I find the 1886 number hard to believe, maybe that's a proofs only number? I can fax you the page from the 1886 report.

My index tells me that the Archives has the Mint Director's Report for the years 1871-1975, with only 1875,1877,1888 & 1893 missing.

Joe