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Lincoln Memorial Cent date by date analysis. PART 1 1959-1964

When I have some extra free time I'm going to share my knowledge about this series date by date. I have collected them for about 3.5 years. I don't collect varieties however, so if you have a vast knowledge of them (coppercoins!) or of the really special ones like full red 69-s DDO's (Stewart!), or just any general knowledge that I may not know or may have missed, please pipe in!

1959 was a fairly heavily saved date being the first year of the Memorial reverse. Probably most coins were saved by the bag. Therefore they usually come really bright and often spot free as they were maybe not wrapped in paper wrappers for a long period of time (the paper wrappers contain sulpher which can cause toning or spotting). Unfortunately most of the coins have therefore got heavily banged up. Usually they are early die states with strikes ranging from okay to full. Ms66's are still fairly easy to find. It may take a dozen rolls from various sources to locate one. True ms67's are very rare of course. The pcgs pop is 6/0 and I believe 4 or 5 of those all came from one super nice roll.

1959-d was also fairly heavily saved. 1959 though started the decline in the quality of Denver mint coins. Often these rolls are mid to slightly late die state. They are a lot less marked up though than 59-p's. They are not as bright though due to the die state. Out of this type of roll ms66's can be easily found, but none will have the luster for an ms67. Although fairly rare, it is possible to sometimes find an early die state roll with super lusterous coins. I have found 3 such rolls in my years of looking. Most of the ms67's probably come from these. The pop is 33/0.

196o small date This should be part of anyone's basic Lincoln Memorial Cent set! This coin is very famous and along with the 1955 DDO really helped propel coin collecting in the early 1960's. You could possibly even find them in your change, but due to speculation, by 1964 rolls were $1000 (I believe?). That was a ton of money back then! Today rolls range from $185-$250. They are not terribly hard to find. I've owned about 15 of them. The small date variety was made only in January of 1960. The mint quickly realized the center of the o in 196o on the die would break or wear off very quickly. They decided to make the date a little larger with more of an oval 0. It so happens that the copper alloy used for most of the 196o small date coins turned a very deep red. The coins can be really gorgeous color sometimes! They seem to be a little nicer made than 1959 coins, so ms66's are fairly common. I've seen a number of coins that had amazing luster and color, and were only one nick away from virtual perfection. There has to be some more ms67's out there, but the current pcgs pop is still 5/0.

196o-d small date For some reason people were able to save far more rolls of 6o-d small date than of 6o-p small date. They go for only $3-$8. The coins aren't quite as nice as 59-d, usually with poorer luster. Strike really starts being an issue now too. They start having incomplete steps and incomplete detail on Lincoln's face. Just getting an ms66 out of most rolls is a real challange, but like 59-d, sometimes an amazing roll can be found. I think the pcgs ms67 pop is 6/0 but more have to be out there. I have 25 at pcgs right now from about 10 super nice rolls, and wish me luck one will make it!

1960 large date These and everything else from 1960-1964 of course were very plentifully saved. Rolls are very common, maybe only costing $2-$5. The quality of the Philly mint's production was also starting to go down hill. Most of these got really banged up and seem very prone to spotting and toning. I have got a few nice rolls of them though that yielded nice ms66's, but a few tiny carbon specks have always cancelled the chance at an ms67. The ms66 pop is still just a little over 100 and the ms67 pop is one..

1960-d large date Here is really when Denver starts to overuse its dies. These are almost always late die states and with no better than a little below average luster. Stikes are poor. Occasionally a closer to mid die state roll can be found, and if they are not too banged up, an ms66 can be found. I have only owned one roll that I thought was fairly close to early die state and should get a handful of ms66's out of it. The pop in ms66 is fairly high, but I think the coins are much much tougher than the pop indicates. There has only been graded one ms67rd by pcgs, and if that is really a true ms67, that might be the most valuable known regular issue Lincoln Memorial Cent in my opinion.

1961 The quality of the coins definitely go down hill from 1960 to 1961. I've had several really nice rolls of 1960 but have never had a nice roll from 1961. They may have great luster but they're very prone to spotting and heavily marked up. 1961 is a date I love to search for it still is one of the weakest coins in my set, and even ms66's usually sell for $200 or more. I've probably searched well over 200 rolls from dozens of sources, and have got graded 8 or 9 of the population of 80. The ms67rd pop is still only 1.

1961-d 1961-d is very much like 1960-d excpet the rolls with okay luster or mid die state are even rarer. The pop of 61-d in ms66 has always been around 80-90 but it's been a scarce coin that hardly ever appears for sale. I have yet to get one graded ms66. Nor have I found any coins that were even close to early die state. I owned one pcgs ms66rd (Bozarth now owns it) that actually was fairly early die state so they do exist. No ms67's have been graded by pcgs. I'm not sure if any 61-d,62-d,63-d could possibly have the luster and detail pcgs would require to get the ms67rd grade.

1962 The 1962 pop in ms66 has always been much higher than 1961, but I don't see any reason for it to be considered an easier coin. All rolls I've seen have been no better than typical, except for one. I had one completely spot free highly lusterous roll that probably has about 8-10 ms66's in it. (so far I only got 3 of them graded.). If one can luck upon a large group of such rolls an ms67 would likely be found. Right now the pop is 5/0.

1962-d Like 1961-d but even worse. I have one ms65'ish ealry die state coin that came out of a not so great roll otherwise, and have got graded 1 ms66 from another mid die state roll. Most rolls have non-existent luster and absolutely terrible luster. The coins are just beat up to heck. The pop is also around 80-90 but it would be a lot lower if BowTie hadn't stumbled upon a nice batch of them.

1963 Pretty much the same as 1961 and 1962. The coins can be really bright but are usually heavily marked up. I haven't searched many rolls of 1963 though as early on I luckily stumbled upon one roll that had gorgeous markfree coins. About 6 of the ms66 pop (around 100) come from this roll, including this one pictured. The ms67 pop is 2, one found by boardmember manorcourtman, and the other is here.
imageimage

1963-d And the Denver mint completely hit rock bottom! Rolls with just okay luster are impossible to find. Rolls with mid die state and decent luster are virtually non-existent. And of course even if the coins have okay or decent luster, they still will have poor strikes, be heavily banged up, and be prone to carbon spotting. I have searched a ton of rolls and haven't even found an ms65 let alone an ms66. I have owned 3 each however of pcgs ms65rd and ms66rd. Usually such coins are pretty markfree but still have poor luster. One ms65 had quite nice luster so they do exist! The ms66 I own now has amazingly mark free surfaces but not the luster required for ms67. This is the no question key date to a gem set of Lincoln Memorial Cents. The pop in ms66 is 29/0. You have to go back to 31-d to find a coin with a lower ms66 pop. Eventually 63-d may prove easier than 32-d or 34-d,35-s in ms66rd, but it will always remain the key date from 36 to date.

1964 Even though the pop of 1964 in ms66 is higher than 1961-1963 I think the quality of the coins goes downhill even more. This is maybe a trend that continues in Philadelphia all the way through 1969. I have yet to get an ms66rd 1964 graded with a ton of searching. While 1961-1963 coins with booming luster can be readily found, it doesn't seem that way with 1964. Also I think 1964 coins can be even worse strikewise. I've never seen a picture of the lone pcgs ms67rd.

1964-d Some rolls of 1964-d totally continue in the spirit of 60-d to 63-d, but at some point the Denver mint got its act together and started producing beautiful coins. I have had extremeley nice rolls of 64-d from at least three different sources. Even though the pop in ms67 is only 8/0, I don't consider it that tough of a date. One of those I got graded and at least four others were graded by board member Bowtie Coins. They are terrific coins, hammered in strike, dripping in luster, and may have an awesome orange or red color. Finding an ms67rd 64-d is just a matter of finding enough of these quality rolls.
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Comments

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the effort and knowledge.

    These are interesting comments about the '60-D sm date. BU rolls of these are distressingly
    common but apparently I had mistakingly believed they were common in high grade as well.
    I've never put much effort into the pre-65 issues and have only run into about a few batches
    of the '60-D sm dates. A couple of these were simply superb. The largest was a group of a-
    bout twenty rolls of really choice gems with almost nothing less than MS-65. They appeared
    to have been choiced from a substantial quantity of coins. Unfortunately there were no buyers
    available so I choiced out the finest seventy or hundred coins and spent the rest.

    The other batches of these were extremely nice as well with only a couple being what I'd describe
    as typical for the era.

    I guess I should have held on to them.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This will get far more interesting to me when you get to '65.
    Tempus fugit.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Eventhough they are not popular, do you have any comments on the 1960 large over small regular and proof issues?

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Lincolns Rule - For your knowledge the early bank rolls contained SULPHER in the paper and not carbon.This is the same sulpher in the paper 2x2 flips and in the Wayte Raymond boards

    How come you have not spoke about mint sets from 1959 and 1960? How does the quality differ between rolls and mint sets ?

    Stewart
  • Great thread LincolnsRuleimageAlways enjoy any interesting thoughts on early memorials. I've personally went through a lot of 1960D small dates and they are truly a difficult roll to find decent candidates for higher grade slabs. From the rolls many of the coins have a lot of spots and carbon webbing on them. Same with the 1959 P rolls I've went through. I had three nice rolls of these and all had carbon spotting and webbing out of the three rolls I found about 5 Double Die #1's in them and all had a lot of spotting on them highest grade of the lot might have been a 64 if that. imageBut it was still fun to find them in these original rolls. Mike.image
    Enjoying time at home with the family now is my full time passion.

    rabbitracks toned showcase set
    myurl
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought a small date 1960 mint set years ago and I still have it. What % of the 260,000+ sets were small dates. What are the odds of both a P and D coin to end up in the same set?

    Leo

    Oops, scratch that! It's a proof set! I was thinking about the sm. date 1970 mint set! image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The '60 sm date shows up in the proof set (~1: 15 I believe), but I've never heard of either in the mint set.
    Tempus fugit.


  • << <i>Lincolns Rule - For your knowledge the early bank rolls contained SULPHER in the paper and not carbon.This is the same sulpher in the paper 2x2 flips and in the Wayte Raymond boards
    How come you have not spoke about mint sets from 1959 and 1960? How does the quality differ between rolls and mint sets ?
    Stewart >>



    Just to be a smart ass... Paper contains carbon.

    I think what he is talking about is what I call roll dirt, it comes off easily but does not tone the coins.
  • Opps, I completely meant to say sulpher rather than carbon. I'll edit it. Thanks Stewart. Hopefully later today I can finish 1961-1964. I've only looked at a handful of mint sets from 59-64 (I think I looked through a dozen or so 62,63,64) and the Lincolns seemed awful, no nicer than the typical roll. I know that I've heard the mint didn't do anything special for the coins that went into mint sets, at least not until something like 1986.
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks to me like the start of or an addition to, a book!

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • That's what I was thinking! If Jaime does not mind, I will be cutting and pasting this info and placing it into a Word doc for my own personal use! This IS the kind of stuff that is valuable. Thanks for sharing J -

    T
    image
  • Of course I don't mind ellewood. 1961-1964 finally posted (except I need to find the picture of my 64-d).
  • wow that 63 is amazing.
  • When I get to 1968-p I know what picture I'm going to post image.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow!!

    Tempus fugit.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought I'd add a couple of data points to your terrific analysis. In the early 1990s I bought a double set of Wayte Raymond holders full of high-grade cents from 1939 to the early 1960s. It must have been assembled in the early 1960s because the coins from those years were outstanding. I submitted the best of them to PCGS and made five in 66RD: two 1960-LD, one 1961, and two 1962. The following two coins were graded in December 2004 and sold on eBay this September, I just wish they had realized the prices you list in your analysis:

    1961 PCGS MS66RD

    1962 PCGS MS66RD


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • All those you mention are P's. What were the D's like? Sorry about the price on your 1961. There have been a lot floating around laelty. I still have 2 of mine left that I'm waiting until I can sell for over $200 again. I've sold them for as high as $350 on several occasions. $100+ for a 1962 is a great result as those used to be more like $50.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,675 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All those you mention are P's. What were the D's like? >>



    Spotted to death. I don't recall anything about the die state, though I think I may still have some of the coins from the set put away somewhere.

    I was actually thrilled with the price on the '61 at the time, not realizing just how tough a coin it was. I wrote the winner after the auction and offered to pick up the shipping as a thank you, and she was shocked because she thought she'd ripped me on the coin.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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