Now here's a piece of Modern Crap™ that'll be fun to watch.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
1964 NGC SP69 SMS Kennedy Half Dollar.
It was listed on Teletrade a couple years ago, bid to $15,000 and not sold. I think it also may have made an appearance in a Heritage auction, but I'm not sure.
Russ, NCNE
It was listed on Teletrade a couple years ago, bid to $15,000 and not sold. I think it also may have made an appearance in a Heritage auction, but I'm not sure.
Russ, NCNE
0
Comments
to me ......(in my ignorance) ......it looks like any other kennedy half.
<< <i>Why does the slab say "specimen" instead of "special"? >>
Specimen at NGC is the same as SMS at PCGS. They label the matte finish 1998 Kennedy and the matte finish 1994 and 1997 Jeffersons the same way. BTW, not sure if it's this coin, but one of the two SP69's used to be in an incorrect PCGS MS68 business strike holder. Still shows up in the PCGS pop report.
Russ, NCNE
I'm under the impression that 1965-1967 were the only 1960's SMS halves. Clearly in his header it says SMS. In addition to not knowing what the "speciman" means, I don't see any indication of SMS on the holder.... would you mind giving me a quick history of the SMS in regards to this decade and in NGG's markings to clear up my confusion?
Thanks in advance
Mark
<< <i>I'm under the impression that 1965-1967 were the only 1960's SMS halves. >>
There were a limited number of "SMS" sets produced in 1964. They're referred to as SMS, frankly, for lack of a better word. The finish and strike on them are vastly superior to the regular business strike coins, but not prooflike as some of the later SMS coins. Sort of a cross between matte and satin. The estimated number ranges from a low of 12 to a high of 50.
They are a legitimate modern rarity.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm under the impression that 1965-1967 were the only 1960's SMS halves. >>
There were a limited number of "SMS" sets produced in 1964. They're referred to as SMS, frankly, for lack of a better word. The finish and strike on them are vastly superior to the regular business strike coins, but not prooflike as some of the later SMS coins. Sort of a cross between matte and satin. The estimated number ranges from a low of 12 to a high of 50.
They are a legitimate modern rarity.
Russ, NCNE >>
Thank you very much for the response 8-)
This thread accidentally shows the evolution (devolution?) of MC. I'm comparing Russ's and thewiz1969's avatars, and even at 100x100 pixels you can tell how shallow and sterile the 1998 design is compared to the 1967.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>I am winning.
Nope now I am....
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Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Nice find and info russ!
Zach
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I wouldn't mind owning an entire '64 SMS set. That would be pretty cool.
Seller used the Heritage scans and cropped out the copyright info. Thanks to PhillyJoe for digging that up.
Russ, NCNE
Hmmm, checking my coin list, there might be a problem.
I found the coin in my Heritage homepage listed under "Coins I'll never own."
Joe
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>I bet the ebay auction will end early because the coin is no longer available >>
I've been watching this seller for quite some time, both under this handle and his other handle of skytyr2. He sells a lot of high dollar stuff, and I've only seen him end one auction early. In that case, he actually did sell it outside of eBay. It was also PhillyJoe's #1 fantasy coin - the only PF69UCAM Accented Hair.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>That coin was also listed on TT. I'll dig the pics up when I get home. >>
Russ, NCNE
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Forgot to ask if he wants regular or decaf.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>I bet the ebay auction will end early because the coin is no longer available >>
I've been watching this seller for quite some time, both under this handle and his other handle of skytyr2. He sells a lot of high dollar stuff, and I've only seen him end one auction early. In that case, he actually did sell it outside of eBay. It was also PhillyJoe's #1 fantasy coin - the only PF69UCAM Accented Hair.
Russ, NCNE >>
So why the private bidder's list? Since you've been keeping an eye on his auctions, does he usually do this?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>So why the private bidder's list? Since you've been keeping an eye on his auctions, does he usually do this? >>
Yep, he always runs them private.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>So why the private bidder's list? Since you've been keeping an eye on his auctions, does he usually do this? >>
Yep, he always runs them private.
Russ, NCNE >>
OK, thanks Russ.
I usually tend to be wary of those who run private bid lists. This guy doesn't fit the profile of somebody who regularly does that.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>My guess is that with the high dollar stuff he sells he wants to prevent the bogus second chance offers. Every time I sell a high dollar coin, my underbidders invariably get them. Sadly, one even fell for it.
Russ, NCNE >>
Aha! I hadn't even thought of that. Thanks for the lesson.
Only once did I get a second chance offer that I acted on. Luckily it was the real deal.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Russ ...can you tell us what is "specimen"?
to me ......(in my ignorance) ......it looks like any other kennedy half. >>
Speciman is an Italian astronaut I thought. . .
Semper ubi sub ubi
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Just offhand, without really doing a comparison study, the sheild on that pic looks slightly different than a regular business strike Kennedy. Kind of reminds me of the Cheerios Sacs in a twisted kind of way. >>
Good eye. I have to believe the concavity on the lower left is an optical illusion or trick of the light though.
And I wouldn't consider this modern crap. It's clearly a different animal from the regular strikes or proofs. With only 50 pieces out there, it's a legit rarity. More power to 'em.
--Severian the Lame
Russ, NCNE
thank you for the interesting thread.
i ussually do not care for modern crap, but this coin, has an unusual
history to it.
20-50 minted? why do they not know for sure?
AH or not? I am confused. how does one tell from ebay pics.
edited to add: i understand what AH is, but is the coin being sold AH?
thanks.
Russ, by any chance have you ever seen this coin personally? If so, what's your opinion of it?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>20-50 minted? why do they not know for sure? >>
They don't know for sure. Some estimates are as low as a dozen sets. There's speculation that they were produced as an experiment in preparation for the 1965 SMS sets, but there's also speculation that they were produced as presentation sets. Don has some more info on this.
<< <i>AH or not? I am confused. how does one tell from ebay pics.
edited to add: i understand what AH is, but is the coin being sold AH? >>
No, these aren't the Accented Hair die (ODV-001).
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Russ, by any chance have you ever seen this coin personally? If so, what's your opinion of it? >>
Sadly, I've never had the chance to view one of these in hand. I wish!
Russ, NCNE
An interesting concept.
same time silver prices were escalating and there was the possibility that any coins struck to
fill the void might disappear into public hands if the price continued upward. Still the mint did
what it could to ease the coin shortage by dramatically increasing production. While many in-
dividuals were hoarding coin with an eye toward future profits based on silver prices, there was
also a speculative bubble in the coin hobby which focused on of all things; recent date BU rolls.
There were books written like G.W. Haylings' "The Profit March of Your Coin Investment" which
seemed to promise great riches if you just set aside ten or twenty rolls of all the current coins
for a few years. Bags and rolls of recent date coins in all denominations were selling in the coin
papers at high premiums and many people were getting quite wealthy serving these markets.
At the time the mint and Congress blamed coin collectors for the shortage even though there
were larger causes. A bill was introduced which would have effectively banned coin collecting
and especially the collecting of modern coins. Mint and proof sets were both discontinued, larg-
ely to punish collectors for the shortage. Date freezes were introduced in 1964 and 1965 to dis-
courage collectors and mint marks were eliminated. Finally they removed silver from the coinage.
During this time the mint knew they had many loyal customers and wanted to do something to
keep them happy and provide the new coinage. The 1964 silver coins were still being struck
into 1966 because of the date freeze as were the new 1965 issues. These dates were expected
to last indefinitely in early 1966. Sometime in late 1965 the mint started experimenting with mak-
ing new collector versions and many of these were on the 1965 issues but apparently they also
tried some on the '64 coins. There were apparently fewer than 20 complete sets put together
and at least some individual coins. The SMS halfs have been found even in half dollars being col-
lected for melting. These are probably the most common of the '64 SMS's but it's unlikely there
are more than about 30.
<< <i>They are a legitimate ............ "modern rarity".
An interesting concept. >>
There are numerous modern rarities with many being far rarer than these.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Check my ebay BIN or Make Offers!!
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