What is Beckett thinking?

RonBurgundy · November 3, 2005 1:02AM

What are they thinking by eliminating the subgrades on vintage cards? It's the only distinguishing feature to set them apart from others (other than the most inconsistent vintage grading in the hobby). Are they conceding the entire vintage grading subindustry?

I work literally across the street from them and have heard their new management has no clue. I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years they are much less prominent in the hobby. Their pricing guides already are in decline due to the rise of SMR. I could easily see a scenario where Beckett just simply fades away.

EagleEyeKid · November 3, 2005 1:32AM

I could easily see a scenario where Beckett just simply fades away.

Very unlikely.

charliehustle14 · November 3, 2005 3:05AM

RonBurgundy,

This affects my collecting about 0%, but I'm curious. Do you have a link to an article or press release on this?

Thanks,

Todd

bowdowntome · November 3, 2005 3:37AM

Uh...their pricing guides were on the decline long before the SMR became popular. I picked up a recent football Beckett (first in about 5 years) just to see what they were up to. Let's see, lousy story content, too much focus on new cards, products and players, pricing columns way too narrow, even for someone with good eyesight, on older sets the yno longer even list values for commons and a lot of the stars and HOFers. It was basically 96 pages of birdcage liner. Now all I need is a bird.

Fabfrank · November 3, 2005 3:42AM

Their reasoning is that in the vintage market, the subgrades seem to accentuate a cards negative aspects. Thus leading to lower prices. They claimed in a recent article that vintage cards should be looked at on an overall condition basis, rather than on the 4 sub-grade basis.
What I founf really troubling recently in Beckett mag was the proliferation of gambling and sports betting advertisements. Now, I'm no prude, but does Beckett really want to expose kids (and themselves) to this side of sport.
I agree with you RonBurgundy. It seems that the new Beckett management is clueless.

bowdowntome · November 3, 2005 3:52AM

<< <i>What I founf really troubling recently in Beckett mag was the proliferation of gambling and sports betting advertisements. Now, I'm no prude, but does Beckett really want to expose kids (and themselves) to this side of sport. >>

Especially since the rag.......er, I mean MAGAZINE focuses on new products and players and is, therefore, in my opinion, a magazine that is AIMED at the younger generation anyway.

digicat · November 3, 2005 4:02AM

It takes a bit of a gambler's mentality to rip packs looking for rare chase cards (1/1s, cut autos, memorabilia cards, etc). Guess the gambling and betting companies are trying to tap a new source of revenue.

I mean, if someone's willing to spend $50 on a pack of 3 cards released this year, looking for a 1/1 cut signature of George Washington, maybe you can tell them "Hey, come sit in front of this slot machine, you have better odds, and you can buy more cards with your winnings!"

All Beckett sees is advertising revenue.

I wonder, how many kids really read Beckett these days.

mtcards · November 3, 2005 7:04AM

I agree. Beckett price guides have been on the decline for several years now. Their prices are no where near in line with actual values being realized through sales. Their raw prices for vintage stuff is too low and their prices for modern are seldom within 50% of what the actual values are.

The card grading part had a great chance about 5 years ago when the surge of grading really opened up. I can remember there was a few times when my submissions to PSA were averaging 2 weeks past the deadline and I actually sent a few in to Beckett and believe me, back then their gem mint cards were near impossible to come by, not to mention the pristine grades. Now they are handed out almost at will.

WinPitcher · November 3, 2005 9:33AM

last yr beckett abruptly stop printing the beckett vintage magazine. i was half through my subscription, so they simply sent me the regular beckett. it was crap in the 80's and it is crap now.

Steve

eddiev · November 4, 2005 4:40AM

Here is the link for the article on Beckett Grading

Link

phreakydancin · November 4, 2005 5:24AM

Very clever on Beckett's part. This will make it more difficult to pick out the sheet-cuts by the low surface sub-grade.

aro13 · November 4, 2005 11:02AM

~"Very clever on Beckett's part. This will make it more difficult to pick out the sheet-cuts by the low surface sub-grade."~

Good point. Now it will be even tougher to determine if a card is sheet cut, although I suppose any BVG 9.5's will be considered sheet cut.

kingraider75 · November 4, 2005 4:24PM

although beckett's price guides have long been out of whack, people still seem to use them. Not on everyone, but on some items. I use them more as a checklist. Their vintage prices don't change that much over the course of a year, so you can probably be good with one every year, if you only care about vintage.

RedHeart54 · November 5, 2005 12:10AM

<< <i>although I suppose any BVG 9.5's will be considered sheet cut >>

You got it. Same for any 1980s 9.5.

gregm13 · November 5, 2005 2:54PM

Has anyone else noticed that more than half the advertising in the Beckett football magazine is for online gambling???? I though the focus of Beckett was towards kids??? If so, it's not a great message to be promoting!!!

Regards,

Greg M.

MajorDanby · November 5, 2005 3:56PM

its not like beckett has a presence in the vintage grading market. they know where they stand...their profit and customers come from the modern card market. it has always been that way. Sure, they've tried to push into the vintage card market with grading and vintage focused magazines...but all of them have either been off target or resisted (because...well..its beckett).

i think they should cut their entire vintage grading and focus solely on the modern market. Beckett no longer is THE price guide authority...so, instead of trying ot push into an area that you are obviously not wanted in....focus on the area where you have considerable influence.

Fabfrank · November 6, 2005 1:34AM

GregM- I just picked up the recent Beckett Football and it seems the gambling ads are increasing exponentially!

Can the 900 numbers and sports porn be far behind?

This is just anothe rshort term decision that will have a dramatic long term effect on their price guides.

Listen up Ebay. They should come up with an online sevice or magazine that tracks online prices for any collectible. They can report the 5 highest and 5 lowest price for any item and than use the average price as the current market. That would be a service that I would pay for.

tedh111 · November 6, 2005 4:23AM

I think there are too many variables to have an accurate price guide based soley on ebay including time of auctions, shipping, feedback, other buyer requirments etc... There is one for magic the gathering cards but it is somewhat inaccurate.

Fabfrank · November 6, 2005 5:31AM

tedh111- By considering feedback, shipping etc., you are just complicating matters. A price guide is just that... a guide, not a bible. By noting the top 5 and lowest 5 ending auctions for any particular card you can account for any wide price discrepancy. The average price (the price they would list in the guide) would be the price that collectors would note. It basic statistics. Eliminate, yet note the extremes, and go with the mean (average)

RedHeart54 · November 8, 2005 3:06AM

<< <i>i think they should cut their entire vintage grading and focus solely on the modern market. Beckett no longer is THE price guide authority...so, instead of trying ot push into an area that you are obviously not wanted in....focus on the area where you have considerable influence. >>

That's a good idea considering there's probably more modern stuff produced in one year than exists all gradable vintage material. The problem is Beckett, like PRO, probably gets a lot of the vintage that's been rejected at PSA, SGC, or even GAI. And looking at the prices some of the BVG cards get on ebay, there's no shortage of suckers.

MajorDanby · November 8, 2005 5:10AM

<< <i>And looking at the prices some of the BVG cards get on ebay, there's no shortage of suckers. >>

that's part of the problem. or, for beckett, part of the solution. maybe they know how (im sure it's not maybe...THEY KNOW PRECISELY) how they are perceived in the vintage card market. therefore, what theyve done is to not necessarily compete with PSA, SGC, GAI, SCD et al...but instead just be seen as the "other" card grading company that does hold some value given brand name...but also has a dark side that lends easy grades on cards that were rejected. maybe that's their niche in the vintage card market. the solution to ridding such a problem is by having beckett stop grading in the vintage market entirely. but, as you stated, if their is a profit to made...why not? Their name has already been through the mud in terms of vintage cards...why not revel in that mud while making a few extra dollars?

What is Beckett thinking?

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