PR67 vs. MS67 - What's the difference?

JDelage

I have seen proof coins advertised as graded PR-- or MS--. I have also seen those coins called Deep Cameo or Ultra Cameo. Could someone point me to a tutorial or lexicon explaining those? If there is something reg. this on the PGCS or NGC sites, I have been unable to find it...

Thanks,

JD

keets

if you've seen Proof coins advertised as MS, it's either a mistake or an intentional deception. Proof and Mint State are entirely different forms of production by the Mint.

coinnut86

This might help

cladking

For most of the recent proofs PR-67 is typical or even a low grade but most coins
throughout history to the present day are scarce, rare, or non-existent in MS-67.
For coins struck once and issued to circulation it is most unusual for them to exist
so well made and in such excellent preservation.

Russ

<< <i>I have also seen those coins called Deep Cameo or Ultra Cameo. >>



Deep Cameo is the designation used by PCGS and Ultra Cameo the designation used by NGC. ANACS used to use Heavy Cameo, but has recently switched to using Deep Cameo. The other lesser services mostly used Deep Cameo, but far too frequently the coin does not deserve the designation.

Russ, NCNE

JDelage

Russ - thanks, but what does it mean? Is it a grade that every proof but no others should get? Or that only some proof would get? Or that even some very nice uncirculated coins can attain?

JD

cladking

Dies for mint state coins are prepared differently and rarely have more than a vaguely cameo
effect. These are not noted except on SMS coins and a few others. Frequently the cameo ef-
fect that's seen on mint state coins is caused by the roughness of the die which is worn off after
only a few strikes.

57cameonut

WHIP UP SOME PIX RUSS !

Russ

<< <i>Russ - thanks, but what does it mean? Is it a grade that every proof but no others should get? Or that only some proof would get? Or that even some very nice uncirculated coins can attain? >>



First, it isn't a grade, it's a designation. It is generally reserved only for proof coinage however mint state Morgans can receive the cameo designation at ANACS. It is the degree of contrast between the devices, (raised portions), and the fields, (flat portions), of the coin. There is "brilliant", which is little or no contrast. There is "cameo" which is very perceptible contrast. Then there is "Deep or "Ultra" Cameo, which is extreme contrast.

Here is a cameo coin:



And, here is a deep cameo coin:



Russ, NCNE

JDelage

Thanks, this is extremely useful.