litesider with a question about this error Great Britain Tuppence

seanq

This coin arrived today from across the pond, a 2005 British two Pence with a large mint clip:



First off, I didn't even realize GB was still minting their own minor coinage, I thought that had gone away with the advent of the Euro. Second, major Mint errors such as this have all but disapeared from liteside coins over the last three years or so, a clip like this on a U.S cent or state quarter (which is roughly the same diameter as this coin) would be a major find. Most of the GB clips I've ever seen were minted in the early 1970s (at least half were dated 1971, for some odd reason), offhand I can't recall having seen even one GB error coin from this decade.

I guess I'm hoping someone in the know can give me an idea just how unusual and/or scarce this coin is. Also, is there even a collector base for GB or European minting errors like this one, or is that pursuit uniquely American?


Sean Reynolds

Bailathacl

The UK still definitely mints its own coinage, and the nation has stubbornly/proudly refused to join the Euro monetary system.

As for the rarity of such errors, I have no idea and leave that to others to help with....

drjules

Very interesting piece, having lived in the UK for the last 30 years, before moving to the US in 2003 I never saw any clipped coinage go into circulation. As above though I will leave it to others to tell you the rarity of this piece

Dr J

lordmarcovan

That's a nifty clip!

Yes, there is some demand for such coins, but I would imagine it is largely driven by the US collector market.

You're obviously an error/variety guru, so I imagine you have a good idea of what similar US clips fetch.

Trouble is, we don't strike a 2d coin, so there's not much to compare it to, is there?


It's worth exactly what somebody is willing to pay for it. Pull a number out of the air.

(I would imagine less than $75 US.)

kuhli

<< <i>Most of the GB clips I've ever seen were minted in the early 1970s (at least half were dated 1971, for some odd reason)
Sean Reynolds >>



In 1971, Great Britain changed from the £.s.d. coinage to a decimal system. To accomodate this change, the initial order of 1971 dated bronze coins was quite high.

1971 mintages:

½ new penny: 1,394,188,250
1 new penny: 1,521,666,250
2 new pence: 1,454,856,000

The 5 and 10 new pences did not require such quantities, as the shilling & florin coins were still legal tender until many years after the change-over. (1 shilling in the £.s.d. was 1/20th of £1, which became 5 new pence, still 1/20th of £1-decimal)

Blackhawk

There doesn't appear to be much of a Blakesly effect for such a large clip. Maybe the presses in Britain are set to strike harder?

kuhli

<< <i>There doesn't appear to be much of a Blakesly effect for such a large clip. Maybe the presses in Britain are set to strike harder? >>



Probably. The 2 pence is copper-plated steel.

seanq

Thank you for the replies so far. Obviously, my plan to endear myself to this forum by using words like "liteside" and "tuppence" worked like a charm .

LordM: I paid significantly less than $75 for the coin, but I think that had more to do with the circumstances. It was sold on eBay by a zero-feedback seller and not listed any of the error categories. Part of the value problem is that there are no comparative U.S. clips, they essentially don't exist on 2004 or 2005 dated coins. Oh, thanks for calling me a "guru."

kuhli: Thanks for the background on the significance of 1971 in British coinage. A similar situation existed in the U.S. around 1964, when the country was in an extreme coin shortage and silver was removed from circulating coins. Probably as a result of the increased production, I've seen more large (25% or larger) clips on U.S. cents dated 1964 than all other years combined.

Thanks also for mentioning the composition of the coin. I had no idea these were copper plated, but that knowledge made me 100% certain the coin is a genuine clip. The edge of the coin inside the clip is also copper, which means the metal was missing before the planchet was plated. You can use the same trick to help authenticate clips on copper-plated zinc U.S. cents minted after 1983.

Blackhawk: There is Blakesley effect visible on the coin but it is faint. FYI, the Blakesley effect is created before the strike, when the planchets are fed through the upsetting mill. The clip causes a lack of counterpressure, which then causes the rim opposite the clip to not fully form. I have blank planchets with clips that show a full Blakesley effect.

To anyone new to the thread, I'm not so concerned with value as the coin won't be sold any time soon, but I'm still very curious to learn the rarity. Any additional insight will be much appreciated.


Sean Reynolds

tbirde56

I believe quality control is higher at the British mint and that fewer errors are produced and even fewer make it out into public. Demand determines value but I'd say you have a very nice and uncommon piece there.

Man

Great coin, no info to add just really like your coin.

Sylvestius

Demand for such pieces will be on the US market.

There's very little interest in decimal coinage in the UK (clock cold, or even anything minted after 1936 gets the yawn) and there's even less interest in errors.


Any interest in those fields is from either tourists or foreign collectors.

Sylvestius

Whilst i think on the only 2005 coins i've seen at present are;

1p and 5p coins. At least i know the 2ps are on the way now.

Looks like the 2005 denominations from 10p upwards will be either Christmas entries or will be arriving in the New Year. Which means the 2006 releases will be delayed until next winter rather than being in autumn.