Ohio Coin Scandal, Noe Indicted on 3 Federal Counts

CollectingsFun

-snip-

A federal grand jury has indicted Tom Noe — the former Toledo-area coin dealer at the center of a state investment scandal — on three counts for allegedly laundering money...

Story

Blade

He's toast.

At least DLRC got a big addition to their inventory in all this mess.

relayer

Cool - I like it when coin theives get busted

kiyote

That's two more federal counts than I had...

Coinosaurus

So, based on coins actually sold so far, I believe Noe has actually made money for the taxpayers. We will see how it all tallies up in the end......

keets

what's really bad about the whole CoinGate debacle is that it only adds fuel to the fire for those who would claim that coins are a terrible investment. looked at overall, the conclusion i get is that a properly managed fund could be successful. it'll be interesting to watch the whole thing unfold and wait for the book to see how Mr. Noe turned sour, perhaps because of unfettered control of the amount of money in the fund.

i can only imagine the growth in the past five years from a fund with $55 million in the hands of someone competent and uncorrupted.

TwoSides2aCoin

keets

well said

however.... well done is always better than well said. And Tom Noe's goose is WELL DONE

lloydmincy

Keets:

Not well said. First off, who says coins are an investment? And a $55 million fund without the manipulation of TPG grade inflation to boost prices, and the coin fund manager fudging price values to keep investors, and/or get new ones???

Oh I'm sorry, you said uncorrupted. With that kind of money in a risky "hobby, (cough) investment"? Impossible.

Coinosaurus

The state of OH was completely clear on the fact this was a rare coin fund. That was their decision. Whether or not the fund was run appropriately is another subject altogether.......

roadrunner

They could have put that fund in the hands of the US Coin Forum and the results would have been FAR better and quite profitable.
Too bad they trusted the wrong guys. Dressing well and being connected gets you the business, but it says nothing about your actual skills or integrity.

roadrunner

Coinosaurus

I agree. Between the collective advice of the forum and the performance of the coin market the last five years, they would have done very well. Of course, you are assuming none of us would have been tempted to make off with some of the coins ourselves

mrearlygold

I wonder what's happening with noe's house in the Keys, if they're able to lien it while awaiting trial.

I hate people who give this business a bad name. .

ksteelheader

<< <i>I wonder what's happening with noe's house in the Keys, if they're able to lien it while awaiting trial.

I hate people who give this business a bad name. . >>



I hate people that give ANY business a bad name!

TheRaven

In the Cleveland Plain Dealer this morning they had a front page article about the 3 Federal Counts and none of those discussed where about coins, but where instead about election illegalities inregards to donating to much money in the 2004 Presidental election.....

ksteelheader

<< <i>In the Cleveland Plain Dealer this morning they had a front page article about the 3 Federal Counts and none of those discussed where about coins, but where instead about election illegalities inregards to donating to much money in the 2004 Presidental election..... >>



were

goose3

<< <i>In the Cleveland Plain Dealer this morning they had a front page article about the 3 Federal Counts and none of those discussed where about coins, but where instead about election illegalities inregards to donating to much money in the 2004 Presidental election..... >>




say it ain't so.....the PD trying to put some spin on it!

koynekwest

Good.

keets

hey Lloyd

consider the $55 million fund i alluded to without the without the manipulation of TPG grade inflation to boost prices, and the coin fund manager fudging price values to keep investors, and/or get new ones which you alluded to. any private individual with that amount of money at their disposal could by so many sure winners in the rare coin arena that i can't imagine a loss in the long term. there are differences in how the CoinGate fund was handled and how my imagined fund would be handled, principle among them is the simple fact the the CoinGate fund had to perform in the short term for various reasons, it's own further existence included(as your post infers). without performing or by showing a loss, it would have been divested, as it is presently being divested. a fund administered by a private individual/corporation could perform in secrecy for however long it's administrator(s) chose to allow.

i'll step out on a limb and suggest that i believe such things are currently happening without our knowledge. how different is my imagined scenario from an individual like Norweb, Lee, Ford or the Hawaiian collection of Samuel Damon-----Coin World, page one, September 26th, 2005-----with the exception of size of the "investment" and noteriety of the collector???

al h.

ksteelheader

<< <i>hey Lloyd

consider the $55 million fund i alluded to without the without the manipulation of TPG grade inflation to boost prices, and the coin fund manager fudging price values to keep investors, and/or get new ones which you alluded to. any private individual with that amount of money at their disposal could by so many sure winners in the rare coin arena that i can't imagine a loss in the long term. there are differences in how the CoinGate fund was handled and how my imagined fund would be handled, principle among them is the simple fact the the CoinGate fund had to perform in the short term for various reasons, it's own further existence included(as your post infers). without performing or by showing a loss, it would have been divested, as it is presently being divested. a fund administered by a private individual/corporation could perform in secrecy for however long it's administrator(s) chose to allow.

i'll step out on a limb and suggest that i believe such things are currently happening without our knowledge. how different is my imagined scenario from an individual like Norweb, Lee, Ford or the Hawaiian collection of Samuel Damon-----Coin World, page one, September 26th, 2005-----with the exception of size of the "investment" and noteriety of the collector???

al h. >>




i'll step out on a limb

This is so unlike you Al!!

classiccoin

<< <i>Keets:

Not well said. First off, who says coins are an investment? And a $55 million fund without the manipulation of TPG grade inflation to boost prices, and the coin fund manager fudging price values to keep investors, and/or get new ones???

Oh I'm sorry, you said uncorrupted. With that kind of money in a risky "hobby, (cough) investment"? Impossible. >>



lloyd is 1000% right and keets is naive and clueless.. coins are not an investment and its an unregulated wild west illiquid and thinly capitalized market.. 3rd party grading does not legitemize coins as investments.. it just adds to the manipulation and incentive for corruption

Conder101

<< <i><< In the Cleveland Plain Dealer this morning they had a front page article about the 3 Federal Counts and none of those discussed where about coins, but where instead about election illegalities inregards to donating to much money in the 2004 Presidental election..... >>

say it ain't so.....the PD trying to put some spin on it! >>


Read the Toledo Blade article linked in the first post. In it it is also made clear that these charges are based on his election campaign funding violations. (And the TB would not be trying to put a spin on it. They were the ones who broke the story about the coin fund in the first place.) These charges are seperate from the investigations into the coin fund monies. The only connection between the two might be if he was siphoning off the coin fund money to make the political contributions. Noe is under investigation for many different things. (Of course he migh not have BEEN investigated for the campaign irregularities if the coin fund problems hadn't come to light and provided a possible way to add additional embarrassments to the Republican party in power.

sellsatan

<< <i>lloyd is 1000% right and keets is naive and clueless >>



Classiccoin you are entitled to your opinion. You are not, however, intitled to insult and debase people based on that opinion! Show some tact!

JadeRareCoin

<< lloyd is 1000% right and keets is naive and clueless >>

Actually, Lloyd is only 100% correct.

tradedollarnut

I think that the right coins are a great investment. Just remember that investment does not mean 'sure winner'.

classiccoin

<< <i>I think that the right coins are a great investment. Just remember that investment does not mean 'sure winner'. >>




just one problem.. the average joe shmo investor never seems to own the right coins when they go to sell.. coins are definately not a good investment unless you are an insider with extensive market knowledge and experience and even then the markups are and other factors strongly work against you..

RYK

"I have every reason to believe...that choice and rare coins purchased today will prove to be an attractive investment ten years from now."
--QDB, in 1972, and many times since.

classiccoin

<< <i>"I have every reason to believe...that choice and rare coins purchased today will prove to be an attractive investment ten years from now."
--QDB, in 1972, and many times since. >>



yeah that looks just great on paper.. in the real world most people over the years who have invested money in coin portfolios have lost their shorts.. changing grading standards.. buying overgraded or cleaned coins.. excessive dealer markups.. for every one lucky coin investor who has actually made a nice long term return on coins.. there are another 100 who have been hosed or lost their shorts

coins are a hobby and an insiders business where the lay investor is almost certain to come out losing

keets

what's really bad about the whole CoinGate debacle is that it only adds fuel to the fire for those who would claim that coins are a terrible investment. looked at overall, the conclusion i get is that a properly managed fund could be successful. it'll be interesting to watch the whole thing unfold and wait for the book to see how Mr. Noe turned sour, perhaps because of unfettered control of the amount of money in the fund.

i can only imagine the growth in the past five years from a fund with $55 million in the hands of someone competent and uncorrupted..........................

...........................hey Lloyd

consider the $55 million fund i alluded to without the without the manipulation of TPG grade inflation to boost prices, and the coin fund manager fudging price values to keep investors, and/or get new ones which you alluded to. any private individual with that amount of money at their disposal could by so many sure winners in the rare coin arena that i can't imagine a loss in the long term. there are differences in how the CoinGate fund was handled and how my imagined fund would be handled, principle among them is the simple fact the the CoinGate fund had to perform in the short term for various reasons, it's own further existence included(as your post infers). without performing or by showing a loss, it would have been divested, as it is presently being divested. a fund administered by a private individual/corporation could perform in secrecy for however long it's administrator(s) chose to allow.

i'll step out on a limb and suggest that i believe such things are currently happening without our knowledge. how different is my imagined scenario from an individual like Norweb, Lee, Ford or the Hawaiian collection of Samuel Damon-----Coin World, page one, September 26th, 2005-----with the exception of size of the "investment" and noteriety of the collector???

al h.

lloyd is 1000% right and keets is naive and clueless.. coins are not an investment and its an unregulated wild west illiquid and thinly capitalized market.. 3rd party grading does not legitemize coins as investments.. it just adds to the manipulation and incentive for corruption

to set the record straight in case you're inferring that i suggested 3rd party grading legitimizes coins as investments, i never said that.

i guess we all have our opinions, though. one of mine is that too many collectors get rankled by the notion of coins as an investment. as i said in the first post, CoinGate will only further that opinion. the individuals whose names i mentioned in the second post would probably not want to bother with getting into an arguement about it, and neither do i. being the naive and clueless fellow that i am, i've learned it's sometimes pointless. i stand by my replies, safe on the limb.

roadrunner

Here we go again with people thinking that there is still an investment vehicle left in the world (ie. not speculative). Coins are as much an
vehicle to speculate in today than the stock market. One is thievery supported by govt, the other isn't.

roadrunner

Bear

I agree with Keets and he is anything but naive and clueless.

Further, the fund should have been divided between 3-4 National reputable coin

dealerships with an outside appraiser to evaluate grades and values at least QUARTERLY.

tHE DEALER WITH THE BEST RESULTS WOULD THEN GET THE LIONS SHAIR OF

NEW MONEY FPOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR.