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One man's take on who was better, Ted Williams or.....
Skinpinch
Posts: 1,531
in Sports Talk
I had a conversation with a man who watched Ted Williams play. He also watched Bo Jackson play. This man swore up and down that Bo Jackson was better than Ted WIlliams. His reasoning was....Bo Jackson could run MUCH better, Bo Jackson could throw MUCH better, Bo Jackson could play dense MUCH better, and Bo Jackson could hit the ball MUCH further. The only thing he noticed is that Ted Williams could hit the ball more often. He reasoned that since Bo Jackson could do FOUR fundmanetal baseball skills to Ted's ONE that Jackson was the superior player.
He also saw Bo Jackson make some incredible plays that he Ted WIlliams could only dream of making. He also noticed that Ted Williams was not a winner because he never won a WS in such a long career. He also noticed the one time that Ted Williams was in the World Series that he looked like a piece of garbage, and that he was a choker.
He recognized that Bo never won a WS either, but he reasoned that his career was cut short and that he was only getting better before he got hurt, not to mention that he had to resource himself for TWO sports!
He also reasoned that Bo was a better teammate than Ted Williams, (based on his first hand observations). Also, that Ted WIlliams's attitude hurt the rest of his teammates and that is why they never won a WS. It was because of William's attitude that caused the ship to sink so often, despite having lots of talent.
SO based on all these observations, team results, and skill set facts, he had nothing other to conclude except that Bo Jackson was better than Ted Williams.
These anti-stat conversations reminded me of this HEATED bar room discussion!
He also saw Bo Jackson make some incredible plays that he Ted WIlliams could only dream of making. He also noticed that Ted Williams was not a winner because he never won a WS in such a long career. He also noticed the one time that Ted Williams was in the World Series that he looked like a piece of garbage, and that he was a choker.
He recognized that Bo never won a WS either, but he reasoned that his career was cut short and that he was only getting better before he got hurt, not to mention that he had to resource himself for TWO sports!
He also reasoned that Bo was a better teammate than Ted Williams, (based on his first hand observations). Also, that Ted WIlliams's attitude hurt the rest of his teammates and that is why they never won a WS. It was because of William's attitude that caused the ship to sink so often, despite having lots of talent.
SO based on all these observations, team results, and skill set facts, he had nothing other to conclude except that Bo Jackson was better than Ted Williams.
These anti-stat conversations reminded me of this HEATED bar room discussion!
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as for baseball i will leave that to the other guys.
Steve
I still can picture him breaking his bat over his knee
But with somebody I do know, and played with, he was trying to proclaim Brett Butler as a better leadoff hitter than Ricky Henderson! His reasoning was the attitude thing, and the bunting ability. He didn't want to hear about OB%. His motivational force was that he was a Dodger fan.
Same guy, this time he tried to proclaim Bill Buckner a better hitter than Mike Schmidt. This time he put way to much value on the act of grounding out instead of striking out, AND on batting average. Motivational force was Buckner was his favorite player.
These are all reasons why objective measures are needed, because we know perception is completely unreliable, and opinion doesn't apply in these cases because this can be measured objectively. Opinion is used for Ketchup vs. Mustard (Bo Jackson's future is opinion too).
The use of objective measures isn't enough, as one has to make sure the right measurement is being used, and applied properly. Everything pertinent in baseball can be measured. All those clutch events people talked about can be measured. In college, our coach marked each and every at bat with a 3, 2, 1, or 0. 0 being a non productive out, and 3 being run producing hit in a clutch spot. The same could be done while watching a MLB game, or by going back through play by play. In the end, the results aren't going to be any different than just lookiing at the whole though a good measurement!
You can scour play by play datat to figure out how many runs so and so was responsible for each and every plate appearance, but in in the end it isn't going to differ much from the BEST measurements already available that look at it as a whole.
This past debates, and some debates on here that made unsubstantiated claims are usually what set me off my rocker. My apologies to dgs for taking a dive into the cess pool!
.400
triple crown
..if the guy you are compaing him to doesn't have those numbers on his resume, then the discussion is over.
discussion over
JS
<< <i>When comparing Teddy Ballgame to anyone, you have to start with two things:
.400
triple crown
..if the guy you are compaing him to doesn't have those numbers on his resume, then the discussion is over.
discussion over
JS >>
Uhm, no.
As usual, you are deluded and misinformed Joe.
kevin makes a decent point. how that is delusional and misinformed is beyond comprehension.
Steve
.400
triple crown >>>
Yes definitely, and if anyone wants to talk about "what ifs" how about the fact that Williams missed 3 prime baseball playing years because he was in the armed forces during WW2.
Bo jackson may have been the better athlete, but not the better ballplayer.
SD
<< <i>As usual, you are deluded and misinformed ummmmmm Axtell
kevin makes a decent point. how that is delusional and misinformed is beyond comprehension.
Steve >>
And as usual, you bring nothing to a conversation...why don't you go crawl back under your rock you call a home and come back when you have something worthy to discuss? Quit riding my sac and following me wherever I post, ok?
Ted Williams was a fantastic player, but to say that you can't compare him to anyone else that didn't win the triple crown or bat .400 is beyond ridiculous.
SD
Axtell - you're right! Heck..."anybody" can bat 400 and/or win the Triple Crown - it's easy.
SD
edited to add: and exactly what do you bring Axhole? Stupidity?
<< <i><<< Ted Williams was a fantastic player, but to say that you can't compare him to anyone else that didn't win the triple crown or bat .400 is beyond ridiculous. >>>
Axtell - you're right! Heck..."anybody" can bat 400 and/or win the Triple Crown - it's easy. >>
Again reading too much into what I posted. But to state that you can't compare ANYONE to him unless they did either is, well, short-sighted.
<< <i>Teddy ballgame won not 1 triple crown but 2
SD
edited to add: and exactly what do you bring Axhole? Stupidity? >>
Ooh you called me stupid!
You're so insightul WP!
/smack
SD
your so insightful
yeah well your stupidity is such that even I can see it.
SD
<< <i>Typical Axhole twist.............
SD >>
And typical WP stalking...man what are you doing, excitedly refreshing every second, waiting with baited breath for my witty replies, only to try (and I emphasize the word 'try') to insult me with your comebacks?
Comedy, I tell you! Thanks for making my morning at work so fun!
excitedly refreshing every second,
from the looks of the timelines it appears that it is you that are doing that. again typical of you.
now mop that floor! boy
<< <i>Don't flatter yourself Axhole, now get back to work. Mop that floor again.
excitedly refreshing every second,
from the looks of the timelines it appears that it is you that are doing that. again typical of you.
now mop that floor! boy >>
Pretty funny, you posted in the SAME MINUTE after mine....then when I call you out on that very topic, you don't post? Hmm pretty coincidental...
as far as the mopping? Please...that's what I have your wife here for.
check the time lines AXHOLE you were the one excited not moi.
everyone now see's the true ASS you really are. what does my wife have to do with anything here? your a real punk.
I doubt you would say that to my face
typical jerk
now mop that floor boy!
Brett Butler better than Rickey? Just because the ageless one refuses to retire doesn't mean that he didnt dominate and change how the opposing team pitched him. I think Rickey is the best leadoff hitter ever.
Bill Buckner and Mike Schmidt? Jeez, we're comparing how someone made an out to gauge "better"? At least if you strikeout, you remove the chances of a double play groundout (assuming runners on base and strike em out, throw em out dps).
Even though I think the opinions voiced to start the thread are a little misguided, it does bring up a point about the intangibles and non-stat metrics that we might overlook when it comes to comparing players.
<< <i>WOW what a stud bringing my wife into the thread, boy you really are a wit.
check the time lines AXHOLE you were the one excited not moi.
everyone now see's the true ASS you really are. what does my wife have to do with anything here? your a real punk.
I doubt you would say that to my face
typical jerk
now mop that floor boy! >>
Look she's done with the floor...I have her doing some dusting and some light work...probably why she doesn't clean up at home.
You wanted to get into personal insults, WP (as usual), I am just upping the ante. You want to make assumptions about what I do, fine, go ahead, but I will take up a notch as they say.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen spanky.
<< <i>
as far as the mopping? Please...that's what I have your wife here for. >>
this idiot should be booted right out of here. I say we take a vote
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
It is time we get this idiot removed from these boards >>
Hmm personal attack *started* by WP, you're right, we should get him gone....you too while we're at it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
It is time we get this idiot removed from these boards >>
Hmm personal attack *started* by WP, you're right, we should get him gone....you too while we're at it. >>
doubt it punk
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
doubt it punk >>
Hmm I think you and WP are the same person....so yeah, we get rid of WP, we get rid of you, too...double win!
You as usual are the common denominator in any flame.
wha wha wha he started it.
typical of you AXHOLE
i guess i called Joe Stalin delusional right??
SD
To seriously compare him to Ted Williams is beyond stupidity. The only reason to do this is to start an argument.
Williams also lost out on a third triple crown when he lost a batting title when it was tied and had to go to the fourth decimal point.
He also has the highest on base percentage of all time and number 2 all time slugging %.
Bo Jackson lifetime .250 average. He was the better runner.
JoeBanzai
<< <i>7th game of the world series. who would you rather have on your team.....bo jackson or ted williams? i'd take bo jackson and i think a lot of others would also. he could do more things to help you win. >>
That is perhaps the dumbest thing ever said on this board. Bo couldn't carry Ted's jock. He broke down early.
JS
Hey, how about putting in Steve Dalkowski to pitch to Bo in the bottom of the ninth? He was the greatest pitcher in the history of the world. He just had a little problem with his controll, when he finally was going to fulfill his POTENTIAL........he hurt his arm. He is possibly the only person who might have had a chance against Bo.
Here's to Steve Dalkowski, the greatest pitcher who almost was.
JoeBanzai
home run hitter!
JS
<< <i>
<< <i>7th game of the world series. who would you rather have on your team.....bo jackson or ted williams? i'd take bo jackson and i think a lot of others would also. he could do more things to help you win. >>
That is perhaps the dumbest thing ever said on this board. Bo couldn't carry Ted's jock. He broke down early.
JS >>
Broke down playing FOOTBALL you goon.
I'd like to see Teddy ballgame lace up the spikes and play RB a few downs in today's NFL, and see him not get his clock cleaned.
Regards
Gary
Soriano has much better stats than Bo
JS
<< <i>Bo Jackson had a lifetime batting average .250. He only led in one catagory and that was strikeouts.
Soriano has much better stats than Bo
JS >>
Soriano didn't know football.
<< <i>Bill Buckner is grossly underrated and should be in the hall of fame. >>
That error in the 86 world series probably cost Buckner the HOF. The guy had nearly 3000 hits. He sould be in the HOF.
<< <i>That error in the 86 world series probably cost Buckner the HOF. The guy had nearly 3000 hits. He sould be in the HOF. >>
Bill Buckner is a perfect example of what I mentioned in another thread. You have to ignore when and where a player played to reach the conclusion that a mediocrity like Bill Buckner was a great player. Kent Hrbek was a better player than Buckner, Bob Watson was a much better player than Buckner, Boog Powell was a much, much better player than Buckner, and Buckner wasn't even fit for Jock carrying duty for Keith Hernandez. Unless and until those four get in the HOF (start holding your breath.....now) it's a little silly to even be discussing Buckner.
Still, not a hundredth as silly as comparing Bo Jackson to Ted Williams.
There are soo many more players from Buckner's era that were better than him. How anybody can say that Buckner was better than Keith Hernandez is beyond comprehension. Unless your a fan that values OUTS MADE as a requisite for being a HOF, Buckner pales in comparison to Hernandez and many others from his era.
I've got to get my calculator out to be sure, but are you saying that the 12 % pt difference in OB% (.321-.333) means that he sucks, yet the 12 % pt difference in SLG% (.408-.396) also means that he sucks?
Confusing indeed.