Why even ask?
EagleEyeKid
Posts: 4,496 ✭✭
I just bought a card this evening and paid immediately after the auction ended. I then get an email from seller with this:
"Hi, thanks for the prompt payment your item will be shipped tommorow. Please leave proper feedback when you receive the card & i'll do the same."
I replied with:
"How about you leave proper feedback for me paying immediately and I'll leave feedback when the card arrives. I did my part. It shouldn't be the opposite.
Thanks."
If they're chicken **** about FB due to chargebacks, retaliation, etc. I would rather them not even ask via email or whatever. It's like a double slap in the face because they weren't going to leave FB in the first place. I can live without FB, but hate the sellers that insists. For every 10 transaction, I would say 4 of them leave FB first after payment. Just don't ask or state it in your description that you'll leave FB after it's been posted for you.
"Hi, thanks for the prompt payment your item will be shipped tommorow. Please leave proper feedback when you receive the card & i'll do the same."
I replied with:
"How about you leave proper feedback for me paying immediately and I'll leave feedback when the card arrives. I did my part. It shouldn't be the opposite.
Thanks."
If they're chicken **** about FB due to chargebacks, retaliation, etc. I would rather them not even ask via email or whatever. It's like a double slap in the face because they weren't going to leave FB in the first place. I can live without FB, but hate the sellers that insists. For every 10 transaction, I would say 4 of them leave FB first after payment. Just don't ask or state it in your description that you'll leave FB after it's been posted for you.
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Comments
When you get my money fast, leave positive fb fast.
When I get the item - and LIKE IT and the "whole transaction" - I will leave positive fb.
When I get your money fast, I will leave positive fb fast.
When you get the item - and like the deal - you can leave positive fb, if you want to.
BUT, here is my best one of the month: I buy an item for $1.99; it was an auction with
no bidders, except I. The item should have high-retailed for about $15.00. Right
after the sale, the seller emails me and says "the shipping will be $12.00." I was p*st, but
wanted the item, and KNEW that I should have asked the shipping price (which
was not in the listing) before I bid. I paid immediately, and the seller left me immediate
positive feedback. (The item required about $1.29 worth of stamps and an envelope.)
A week after I get the item, the seller emails me this: "Still waiting for your positive
feedback. Please leave it now. Thank you."
I looked at the seller's feedback and it was full of complaints from other folks about being
overcharged for shipping; some were MUCH worse than mine.
I do not leave negative fb. I vote yes/no with my fat purse.
Cher
Thanks." >>>
Stingray
Edit to add: I know I'm taking a chance, but I believe if you put out positive energy you get it back. And 99.99% of the time you do. Too many people shut off the source in the fear of that .01 %. That, IMO, is one of the things wrong with people in this world.
Okay, I'll stop now....
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>This issue has been brought up before and as only a buyer I agree, why should I not receive my feedback as soon as payment is received? I think it also makes for better business practice, I would rather shop from someone who gives me my feedback right away. Makes a difference IMO.
Stingray >>
You shouldn' t receive feedback right after you make a payment because just making a payment doesn't mean you're a good buyer. If you, as a buyer, pay immediately, but then leave neutral (or negative feedback) because 'the card took six days from the end of the auction to arrive', or because 'the card was over graded (despite being in a PSA slab),' then you're a tool and you don't deserve positive feedback. Period.
I don't know why buyer's get so bunged up about this. What, you think a seller's going to leave you NEGATIVE feedback after you've paid promptly and generally comported yourself with class through the whole transaction? Where's the percentage in that for the seller? Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same.
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<< <i>This issue has been brought up before and as only a buyer I agree, why should I not receive my feedback as soon as payment is received? I think it also makes for better business practice, I would rather shop from someone who gives me my feedback right away. Makes a difference IMO.
Stingray >>
You shouldn' t receive feedback right after you make a payment because just making a payment doesn't mean you're a good buyer. If you, as a buyer, pay immediately, but then leave neutral (or negative feedback) because 'the card took six days from the end of the auction to arrive', or because 'the card was over graded (despite being in a PSA slab),' then you're a tool and you don't deserve positive feedback. Period.
I don't know why buyer's get so bunged up about this. What, you think a seller's going to leave you NEGATIVE feedback after you've paid promptly and generally comported yourself with class through the whole transaction? Where's the percentage in that for the seller? Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same. >>
It just seems like the seller is trying to hide something about the cards (if there raw) they're selling when they don't leave you feedback until they receive positive feedback from you. You honestly think if you left them Neutral or Negative feedback because a card was dinged, they would leave you positive feedback because you paid promptly?
As a buyer, I'll leave feedback once I receive an item that is remotely close to the described item... I don't care whether feedback has been left for me or not.
As a seller, I'll leave immediate feedback for someone if they have purchased a graded card. I will not leave feedback if they have purchased a raw card, not because I am trying to hide something, but because the area of grading is so gray, and I don't want someone starting up with me over a $10 card that I called NM that they think is EX-MT, and generally, someone is a lot more likely to complain about something insignificant if there is no possible recourse against them. I have never given a negative feedback, nor do I have any. If the buyer leaves a feedback for me on a raw card, I'll leave one for them, otherwise, I won't leave feedback on the transaction at all. And I assure you, I'm not the only one who does this to dissuade people from unwarranted complaints or feedback, and I've never had a problem. That's not to say I would have had a problem if I would have left feedback immediately, but I'll just assume it's because people are completely satisfied with the cards I send them.
I have recently begun to incorporate an extra 3% on shipping charges to offset the 3% paypal charges me for doing transactions however.
Julen
RIP GURU
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<< <i>This issue has been brought up before and as only a buyer I agree, why should I not receive my feedback as soon as payment is received? I think it also makes for better business practice, I would rather shop from someone who gives me my feedback right away. Makes a difference IMO.
Stingray >>
You shouldn' t receive feedback right after you make a payment because just making a payment doesn't mean you're a good buyer. If you, as a buyer, pay immediately, but then leave neutral (or negative feedback) because 'the card took six days from the end of the auction to arrive', or because 'the card was over graded (despite being in a PSA slab),' then you're a tool and you don't deserve positive feedback. Period.
I don't know why buyer's get so bunged up about this. What, you think a seller's going to leave you NEGATIVE feedback after you've paid promptly and generally comported yourself with class through the whole transaction? Where's the percentage in that for the seller? Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same. >>
It just seems like the seller is trying to hide something about the cards (if there raw) they're selling when they don't leave you feedback until they receive positive feedback from you. You honestly think if you left them Neutral or Negative feedback because a card was dinged, they would leave you positive feedback because you paid promptly? >>
I don't follow you. If you get the cards, and they're not as advertised, then obviously you wouldn't leave positive feedback.
In my initial post I laid out why a decent, reputable seller may be inclined to withhold feedback until after the buyer has indicated that he is satisfied with the transaction.
<< <i>Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same. >>
Well said Boopotts.
Stingray
I agree with Eagle - better not to ask.
Now, when I make a payment - we have to decide if the transaction is complete from the buyer's side? I really don't know. There's really not more I can do but get the product and leave FB. I do understand how sellers get screwed tho.
But, I have noticed that sellers that are 'confident' in themselves leave FB when I promptly pay - in fact one even emailed me to thank me.
I don't think there's a yes/no answer to this question - only shades of purple.
mike
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>What's the deal? When I buy something from a store, I never expect the merchant to thank me for my business and prompt payment unless I thank him first. If I sell a job to my customer, he gets butkus unless he thanks me first. Who does he think he is, anyway? Repeat business? Fugedaboudit - there's tons of buyers in the world. >>
Mark
I wish I could take that position. But, for me, they can go down the corner and get the same service. Kissing ass is part of the game infortunately.
All and all, I think when I pay - I've done my part and FB can be given. You know where this will go?
A protracted flurry of responses from ebay sellers on how they got screwed by leaving pos FB after the buyer paid.
This issue will never be resolved to everyones satisfaction IMO.
mike
You KNOW that I was kidding, don't you? I say thanks immediately (by leaving positive feedback for immediate payment) because it's the right thing to do. Even the flurry of negative feedback stories - one out of a thousand buyers might leave a negative feedback instead of try to work out the deal with a seller who has already left positive feedback for him, but is that any reason to withhold common courtesy to everyone? I don't think so.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>Just wondering as a buyer, when should I expect my feedback then, after I have paid and left feedback? This is an endless discussion with no obvious answer. If the seller is worried about leaving feedback first, because he is afraid of a knucklehead buyer leaving a bad feedback, then he waits to get feedback first. What is to say is does not work the other way?
Stingray >>
It doesn't work the other way because no seller is going to leave you negative feedback if you a) paid promptly, and b) don't have any ridiculous complaints about the service the seller provided (see my above examples).
I never contact the sellers to ask for feedback--but I do remember which sellers either don't appreciate my money or are not confident of their product. Almost none of the sellers I buy from have 100% feedback rating. They know if they ever get a unwarranted negative from a "knucklehead", there is a response option where they can say their peace below that feedback. I do read the negs of potential sellers, and it is usually very easy to see which negatives are unwarranted and also can see how professional the seller was when responding.
So the paranoid sellers can keep their precious feedback perfect, they value that more than getting increased bids (more money) and repeat buyers who do place value on old- fashioned business etiquette (i.e. good product and "thanks" from the seller).
It's a buyers market--99.9% of the time there will be another seller with the same card for sell. Luckily I have the choice of which seller gets my money.
See you sellers on the "bay"! (If you're lucky, that is)
<< <i>Mike
You KNOW that I was kidding, don't you? I say thanks immediately (by leaving positive feedback for immediate payment) because it's the right thing to do. Even the flurry of negative feedback stories - one out of a thousand buyers might leave a negative feedback instead of try to work out the deal with a seller who has already left positive feedback for him, but is that any reason to withhold common courtesy to everyone? I don't think so. >>
Mark
I guess the irony flew right over Houston this time partner.
I usually leave f/b first as a seller, but only so I don't get annoying emails asking for feedback. I hate that. The less I hear from buyers on ebay, the better. Also, it's too much darn work to track who has left me feedback first and then leave it for them. I've probably gotten some ridiculous negs from buyers on one of my seller accounts at one time or another over the years...maybe someday I'll even read them...but I'm not going to give in to ridiculous demands/feedback extortion from buyers just because they have the power to neg me. If I ever start to have a hard time getting market value for whatever I'm selling, then I'll worry about it.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
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<< <i>Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same. >>
Well said Boopotts.
Not at all well said. If it was invariable, there wouldn't be an issue. It's the variability that causes distrust on both sides.
As a seller, I leave feedback immediately after payment is received. Not once have I been burned using this policy.
As a buyer, I leave feedback only if I have received it first. I completed my end of the transaction first, so it only stands to reason that I receive feedback first. Receiving an item is NOT part of the transaction; delivering it is. If you're so concerned about me receiving my item, use delivery confirmation.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>Receiving an item is NOT part of the transaction >>
Phreaky
You're gonna have to explain this to me? A deal is complete only if the buyer is satisfied with what they receive. Scams and all that? Could you tell me what you mean?
mike
If you are a seller, you leave feedback immediately when payment is received. It doesn't matter what type of item was sold, or what type of payment was sent. It if arrived in a timely manner and clears so that you own the money, you leave the buyer feedback. If the payment doesn't come, you follow the obvious leads to get your money - you invoice, you e-mail, you e-mail again, you call, you open a non-payer dispute. If the seller made an honest mistake or something got mixed up and you get your payment, you leave a positive. If you're being dicked around by a deadbeat, you leave a negative, and you don't debate endlessly on these threads if it's "worth" leaving a negative because you might get one back, but you don't deserve it, but the buyer is a jerk, but what can you do etc etc. You do it.
If you are a buyer, when you receive the item, if it is as expected and arrived to you in a timely and safe manner, or if not and the seller worked with you track the item that may've been delayed in the PO for some reason, but you get the item, then you leave positive feedback. If the seller didn't ship the item in a timely manner, or charged for shipping services you didn't actually get, or sent you something incorrect and won't answer your inquiries in timely manner or is unnecessarily rude or basically tries to screw you, you leave a negative. It doesn't matter if he hasn't left you feedback yet, and you don't debate endlessly on these threads if it's "worth" leaving a negative because you might get one back, but you don't deserve it, but the seller is a jerk, but what can you do etc etc. You do it.
If you are a seller or buyer or both who does not agree with all of what I just said, they you are the deadbeat. You are the problem. And you shouldn't complain when you run up against others like yourself (I'm not specifically directing at anyone here, including the author of the thread, which honestly I didn't read too carefully - just got the general idea of it all browsing through)
You all (we all) need to quit worrying and complaining and playing these feedback retaliation games because that only contributes to the problem. Obviously, I don't mean everyone, but am just jumping on the soapbox for a moment here. It's gotten to the point where once a week a specific incident comes up, and everyone chimes in about what they would do, but maybe given these circumstances they would do something different, but in this case something else, but this seller deserves this, or that buyer deserves that, and I recommend this etc etc to death.
We all need to just follow the rules and be professional. Anything else, we're just adding more to the problems we're complain about.
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<< <i>Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same. >>
Well said Boopotts.
Not at all well said. If it was invariable, there wouldn't be an issue. It's the variability that causes distrust on both sides.
As a seller, I leave feedback immediately after payment is received. Not once have I been burned using this policy.
As a buyer, I leave feedback only if I have received it first. I completed my end of the transaction first, so it only stands to reason that I receive feedback first. Receiving an item is NOT part of the transaction; delivering it is. If you're so concerned about me receiving my item, use delivery confirmation. >>
You're splittting hairs. Sure, it's not 'invariable', but it's close. Like I said, you'll have to search high and low to find a seller who will give a you a negative after you've paid promptly and expressed your pleasure with the item received.
And no, you haven't completed your end of the transaction first. That's my whole point. You've paid, sure, but that doesn't mean you still don't have time to totally muck up the transaction by making ridiculous demands, or harassing the seller, etc. etc.
Look-- I don't care when, why or even if anyone here leaves feedback. What I am trying to do is point out a legitimate reason why a seller would want the buyer to leave it first.
I left a nuetral to a seller because after I won the auction, I sent an immediate paypal payment. 2 weeks later I received a rude email from the seller asking me for his feedback. I informed him that I had not yet received the card and let him know how I felt about this feedback request. He was very rude and eventually told me he found my card in his "trunk" and had apparently forgot to mail it. Another 10 days goes by and I receive the card (a PSA card). So in the end It took over 1 month to send a card to me after I paid within 10 minutes of auction close.
I left the neutral because of his demands for feedback. I got a negative in retaliation. I feel the nuetral feedback was correct given the circumstances. I should have not received a negative, I did everything a seller can do, I PAID within 10 minutes, I did not pester the seller asking when it should arrive, I did not leave a Neg.
Obviously I will never buy from this seller again. I do not repeat buys from sellers who hold feedback hostage... Just leave feedback and ship your items, your feedback will take care of itself if you are honest and fair with your buyers.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
Julen
RIP GURU
There are feedback mongors out there that worry about each and every transaction...but if they've held up their end, they shouldn't have a problem leaving feedback as soon as they can!!
As soon as they can...is a grey area! In my case, I try to leave feedback, the same day as payment is received. Now on occasion, say a week with 1000 auctions and a store to run..it may get slack for a few days. BUT...it will be left, hopefully 1st..but if not..it is left!!
There just never seems like enough hours in the day...whether it's sorting, scanning, sleeving, auction descriptions or filling orders and mail..this process is tedious!! Especially if you're a one person entity! so maybe feedback does go slack for a day or three...something has to get pushed to the side to keep the ball rolling!! But at 1 am when I'm sitting there, eyes bleeding, leaving feedback...hopefully all will be happy...
It's and endless debate...simply put...if you deserve it, you should get it!! Now whether it's good or bad..that's a whole different grey area...
And? That's OK.
After all, what else are we going to talk about?
mike
<< <i>Make a prompt payment, don't act like an idiot, and leave feedback. The seller will invariably do the same. >>
I dont disagree that sellers feel they have a reason to not leave feedback, I just disagree with their thinking. The only comment I do disagree with is the above one. A buyer could say to a seller "Receive payment, dont act like an idiot or feedback Nazi, send item. The buyer will invariably do the same."
As I said in many past posts on this subject, the only reason to withhold feedback from a buyer is so you have an out to leave a retaliatory feedback. A retaliatory feedback that the buyer may actually feel IS justified. I mean honestly, lets say you receive payment, send the item, and the seller feels that the item was not as described and leaves a negative, what do you sellers who withhold feedback do?
If you neg him back, you are responsible for the continuation of retaliatory feedback which is pretty much screwing the honest seller/buyers on ebay. Do you leave a positive for him? I seriously doubt it, even though he COMPLIED with the transaction, he felt that you as a seller didnt.
I have had thousands of customers in my store over the past 36 years and some of them have legitimate complaints and some have ridiculous complaints, however, they ARE the customer and I do whatever I can to make the transaction right. Even though I am sure at some point they gave me "Bad word of mouth" (ie Neg Feedback), I did not go around telling everyone that my customer was a complete tool or a psycho moron, which is exactly what is happening here. I have seen some sellers actually say that they will leave feedback in kind no matter what it is. Its nice that these sellers are basically saying, I will screw you over feedback-wise if you neg me, so dont do it, even if my product sux. Ebay should get more personally involved in the feedback process which would eliminate those who woory about their feedback so much that they panic if a buyer might leave them a neg.
<< <i>This issue has been brought up before >>
112836789 times..
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<< <i>Receiving an item is NOT part of the transaction >>
Phreaky
You're gonna have to explain this to me? A deal is complete only if the buyer is satisfied with what they receive. >>
The SELLER'S part of the transaction is complete when he has delivered the item to the buyer in a reasonable amount of time, and in the condition advertised. The buyer completed his part a week or two previous when he paid in full.
As a buyer, my feedback should not be held hostage by a seller's fear of being screwed by the odd loose cannon. Like I said, I always leave feedback after payment is received, and I haven't been screwed yet.
Incidentally, I found this in eBay's Feedback Forum site... "Research shows that sellers who leave feedback upon receipt of payment receive a higher percentage of feedback."
<< <i>You're splittting hairs. Sure, it's not 'invariable', but it's close. Like I said, you'll have to search high and low to find a seller who will give a you a negative after you've paid promptly and expressed your pleasure with the item received. >>
You conveniently leave out the prospect of the seller leaving NO feedback at all after they have received their positive. There are lots of sellers out there who can't be bothered to leave feedback at all. They just greedily suck up their positives without returning the favour.
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<< <i>You're splittting hairs. Sure, it's not 'invariable', but it's close. Like I said, you'll have to search high and low to find a seller who will give a you a negative after you've paid promptly and expressed your pleasure with the item received. >>
You conveniently leave out the prospect of the seller leaving NO feedback at all after they have received their positive. There are lots of sellers out there who can't be bothered to leave feedback at all. They just greedily suck up their positives without returning the favour. >>
Two points.
1) So what? Feedback isn't a zero sum game. And it's not like backlinking on the web, where a non reciprocating link is worth more to your SEO efforts than a reciprocating one. If a seller doesn't leave you feeback, then don't buy from him in the future.
2) Read my last post. I don't care how you or anyone else manages their feeback issues. I'm simply explaining a legitmate reason why a seller may want a buyer to leave feedback first. If that gets you worked up in a lather then fine-- don't leave feeback for a seller before you've received the same. The fact that my explanation may not satisfy you doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate reason for seller's who insist on a 'you first' feeback policy.
I would say that about half of my buyers have good feedback and are active ebay users and for those members I leave feedback right away in hopes of repeat business and the main fact is that it is the right thing to do. I just don't like leaving myself hanging out there with a new ebay user who just might neg me if they are having a bad day or if they didn't like the show cause their gf/bf were being mean, or whatever other reason they might have. I have seen it happen a few times so I'd like to try and avoid that if possible.