A rather upset fellow was concerned that a particular picture was posted. I guess this particular image was not to be shown, ever. POOF, end of thread.
I find this action very unfortunate. Why can't we ALL enjoy this hobby and pass along information. One of the nice things about this forum is that collectors and dealers of ALL means and various interests can talk about their favorite coins. Do we have to delete threads that happen to show a picture of a rare coin? I guess we do if the person making the request is powerful enough. I'm just sad to see it come to that. Steve
I know the side-by-side versus the one-on-top aspect bothered me tremendously. I had to turn my monitor 90 degrees to make the pictures side-by-side. It was a royal pain. Thank goodness that thread was yanked!
All I know is that I copied Lincoln Science post and added the comment, this is why I prefer animals over humans they don't threaten to run to lawyers. Next thing I know it went poofy.
<< <i>so if some of us saved the pics to our hard drives.....what if someone should happen to post it now? or possibly make it into an icon next month? >>
Man, every time I make a long, informative post on a subject (Speared Bison, Doubled Die cents), the thread gets deleted. I may just never say anything of substance again.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Was there a prior agreement over a copyright of the image? >>
Apparently not. The image was posted without permission and was not available in a public format until these posts (which are now both gone). If the image had come from eBay or another public way, that would be a different issue. For those who wish to make it an icon, I request you don't.
I thought so also, but still has a pic of the "other" 58 DDO, (side by side), so I don't get what could of been the big deal of the deleted thread vs. the existing one???
UPDATE: Carol zapped both. The other one was alive for a while. It WAS because of the pics. Whatever, it's just a penny.
I take a couple of days away from the forum and I miss all the fun...
A rather upset fellow was concerned that a particular picture was posted. I guess this particular image was not to be shown, ever. POOF, end of thread.
What am I missing? Lake's comparison post was thought provoking, very interesting and didn't devalue the 64RD example in any way. If I remember right Goose prefered the eye appeal of the 64RD and many of us thought it was actually an earlier die state. Some questioned the grade of the 65RD, no one questioned the grade of the 64RD. This guy asks Lakes to image his coins. Lakes invites him to his beautiful house where he takes some great images, makes him feel at home. A couple years later Lakes, thinking as a collector and not as a lawyer - thank god - makes a well intentioned post that includes a pic of this guy's wonderful coin.
I guess this won't be the last time good intentions and numismatic incite are defeated here, it's certainly not the first.
<< <i>Lakes invites him to his beautiful house where he takes some great images, makes him feel at home... >>
Paul, that's all fine and dandy, but you omitted some potentially extremely important details/information....
What type of food and beverages were served? My guess (based upon what transpired in the deleted thread) is that there was a major deficiency in that area.
For those who missed the silly childish threat, here it is:
<< <i>"Lakesammman - I am forwarding some special emails and this post to my lawyer. I suggest you contact yours as well. You were specifically instructed to destroy that photo and you gave me your word that you would. Now in your own words try to explain to these message boards what it took to publish it here when you swore you never would release it. You have your head so far up Stewarts butt you're blind. But this time I hope its gonna cost you." >>
If you are worried at all, tell him the truth: I broke into your home, at knife point when you were about to delete it, stole it, and posted it under your profile. I'll have to say this under oath, if it comes to that.
Since any educational content in the 2 original threads has now been deleted as well, the two coins are original mint products. I understand that they have been certified by the mint director as such. They are products of a doubled die.
There was a lot of good discussion going on regarding possibility of other coins out there. One theory proposed a mint employee plucked them from the bin prior to melting of the entire mintage from the die. Anyway, censorship being what it is has taken care of all that.
I just wrote to John Wexler and Kevin Flynn, hopefully they'll grant me permission to post some of the fascinating write-up on this variety from their 'Authoritative Guide to Lincoln Cents' here. If you're a fan of the series, the whole book is a must-read, Kevin Flynn did some great research on many esoteric varieties like the 1943 copper and 1944 steel cents, the 1910-S-VDB, and this DDO.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Stewart's coin will be added to his Coingallery.org Lincoln varieties. This is what I truly appreciate about Stewart Blay, he shares his coins with the rest of us.
The owner of the other coin will keep its image hidden forever, or until he gets a decent price. Whichever comes first.
The truth is Stewart's acquisition, and his willingness to post it here, has established a price for this coin. LincolnSence was asking a retirement fund price for his coin, Stewart established a real price. LincolnSence expected to make a fortune on this coin and now he's stuck in a price structure. No wonder he's pissed.
<< <i>The truth is Stewart's acquisition, and his willingness to post it here, has established a price for this coin. LincolnSence was asking a retirement fund price for his coin, Stewart established a real price. LincolnSence expected to make a fortune on this coin and now he's stuck in a price structure. No wonder he's pissed. >>
That makes a world of sense. It also explains why he wouldn't want his coin pictured side by side with Stewart's.
Having thought some more about it, I do think other pictures of the second coin exist. Flynn's write-up mentioned the original owner sent pictures of one of his two coins anonymously to Coin World in 1966 and again in the early 1970s. Flynn then pictures an example that he says is not the one that appeared in CW. If there are just two known, then one of those sets of pictures must be of the 64RD coin.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
If someone types in 1958 DDO in a previous thread on the coin forum Rick Snow took an image of the ms 64 red because Sam Lukes sent it to him for bidding.The only problem is Ricks imaging was not nearly as good as Lakesamman.
Here is the Link Stewart is talking about. I never saw this thread. Rick said in the thread that there where 3 sealed bids. I was one of them at $23K. I posted this on another thread.
Neat link. The $25,025 hammer price really sticks in my head, I'm sure I still have the Coin World article from that sale saved somewhere. I never knew that was a $25 snipe in sealed bid auction, though.
Here's an interesting question - no obligation for anyone to answer, but I think it is worth asking. I think it's generally accepted that sometimes PCGS will market grade ultra-rarities based on the coin's position in the condition census. I remember reading a post about the 1804 dollars along the lines of "Well the Foo specimen we graded a 67, and the Bar coin was nicer, so we graded it 68."
With that in mind, would those of you who have seen Stewart's example (including LMS himself) say that the coin is accurately graded as a 65RD? Or was it given that grade only because PCGS felt it was demonstrably nicer than the coin PCGS had already graded 64RD?
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I took photos of the first specimen in 1993 when I met the individual who had both. From the photos, comparing to the photos in Wexler's 1983 book, I knew this was a different coin.
If someone shows me how to upload my photos, I will upload the photos for people to see.
Or I can send to someone else if they know how to do it.
I do not have color photos, all black and white, but very detailed.
I took photos of the first specimen in 1993 when I met the individual who had both. From the photos, comparing to the photos in Wexler's 1983 book, I knew this was a different coin.
If someone shows me how to upload my photos, I will upload the photos for people to see.
Or I can send to someone else if they know how to do it.
I do not have color photos, all black and white, but very detailed.
]With that in mind, would those of you who have seen Stewart's example (including LMS himself) say that the coin is accurately graded as a 65RD?
I would, without question. I saw it raw. To me it was your typical late 50's wheatcent in 65RD (aside from the amazing doubling), some obvious problems when you looked close but very clean and consistant looking from a distance. No major hits, no major spots. It's a run of the mill PCGS 65RD, aside from the variety. Lake's image of the 64RD showed a major hit on the shoulder, a weaker reverse strike, a few spots, and much less remaining red color. It was a nice comparison thread.
As per your PM's to me. They are crude and rude and they tempt me to post them here. But I decline.
How about posting some of your PM comments to me here for all of us to discuss? Your PM conjectures are easily written but tough to back. I'll leave it up to you to state them. If you don't have the courage of your commitments we'll all understand.
Paulie - you are quite the pain in the ass. I feel like I am arguing with a little child. How old are you anyway? Shouldn't you be running along and playing with your camera or something? You dont know how to drop things at an appropriate time or for an appropriate reason. Even though you have been politely asked to shut up and drop it, you insist on being an instigator. Even stewart has dropped the discussion. So why is it that you feel you need to be his mouthpiece? If your going to post on this forum you should learn something about peoples feelings and learn how to respect them. If you want to post my PM's please start with the first one when I explained the situation to you and was even nice enough to compliment you on your pictures. Otherwise shove it.
1) Yes, I'm a relentless pain is the ass on the forum when it comes to people like you.
2) I'm 49, going on the big "50". Not looking forward to it but there's no turning back. I'm a borderline old man.
3) I dont play with my camera, I try to take the best images I can with it. I usually fall short and delete most of the pics. I'm proud of the few images I post here and feel they represent the coins as accurately as I can.
4) Polite asswipes like you don't tell me how to conduct my activities here.
5) Post your real PM's to me here, not this halfass post.
The following photographs of the 1958 Doubled Die were photographed by Kevin Flynn in 1995 and included in his book The Authoritative Reference on Lincoln Cents, coauthored with John Wexler.
Calling me Paulie instead of Paul is a punk's reaction. I get it (duh)
Sence --
Your quote: "Is your ass getting sore with stewarts dick in it? No, I bet you like it just fine."
You seem to think I'm Stewart's spokesperson. Did you actually read the post that Lakes posted? Stewart thought his 1958 DDO was an early die state in the Coin World article. I thought yours was. Did you read the posts here before your profane PM to me?
I remember seeing the specimen I photographed the first time around 1995, I had heard about it for years, bought and seached many 58 rolls, talked to other experts who had done the same. All believe the 58 was an inside job. I wanted so bad to purchase it, but believed that because I was stating that it was genuine in my book, it would have been a conflict of interest to purchase it. It was one of those coins though that you dream about......
coinguy1
Posts: 13,485 ✭
Comments
He also received some "Special" emails too according to his post.
Russ, NCNE
A rather upset fellow was concerned that a particular picture was posted. I guess this particular image was not to be shown, ever. POOF, end of thread.
Jack
<< <i>A rather upset fellow was concerned that a particular picture was posted. >>
Well, you can't really blame him for being upset. Stewart's coin is so much prettier.
Russ, NCNE
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
I know the side-by-side versus the one-on-top aspect bothered me tremendously. I had to turn my monitor 90 degrees to make the pictures side-by-side. It was a royal pain. Thank goodness that thread was yanked!
Mark
PS:
<< <i>so if some of us saved the pics to our hard drives.....what if someone should happen to post it now? or possibly make it into an icon next month? >>
I double dare ya.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
To have a understudy coin of a pop 2 known mintage would be fantastic enough for me as well as 99% of the posters here!
09/07/2006
<< <i>Man, every time I make a long, informative post on a subject (Speared Bison, Doubled Die cents), the thread gets deleted. >>
I read your post, Sean. It was ouststanding. Keep them coming.
Russ, NCNE
I bumped it. On the U.S. Coin Forum.
<< <i>Was there a prior agreement over a copyright of the image? >>
Apparently not. The image was posted without permission and was not available in a public format until these posts (which are now both gone).
If the image had come from eBay or another public way, that would be a different issue.
For those who wish to make it an icon, I request you don't.
Carol
I thought so also, but still has a pic of the "other" 58 DDO, (side by side), so I don't get what could of been the big deal of the deleted thread vs. the existing one???
UPDATE: Carol zapped both. The other one was alive for a while.
It WAS because of the pics. Whatever, it's just a penny.
A rather upset fellow was concerned that a particular picture was posted. I guess this particular image was not to be shown, ever. POOF, end of thread.
What am I missing? Lake's comparison post was thought provoking, very interesting and didn't devalue the 64RD example in any way. If I remember right Goose prefered the eye appeal of the 64RD and many of us thought it was actually an earlier die state. Some questioned the grade of the 65RD, no one questioned the grade of the 64RD. This guy asks Lakes to image his coins. Lakes invites him to his beautiful house where he takes some great images, makes him feel at home. A couple years later Lakes, thinking as a collector and not as a lawyer - thank god - makes a well intentioned post that includes a pic of this guy's wonderful coin.
I guess this won't be the last time good intentions and numismatic incite are defeated here, it's certainly not the first.
<< <i>Lakes invites him to his beautiful house where he takes some great images, makes him feel at home... >>
Paul, that's all fine and dandy, but you omitted some potentially extremely important details/information....
What type of food and beverages were served? My guess (based upon what transpired in the deleted thread) is that there was a major deficiency in that area.
<< <i>"Lakesammman - I am forwarding some special emails and this post to my lawyer. I suggest you contact yours as well. You were specifically instructed to destroy that photo and you gave me your word that you would. Now in your own words try to explain to these message boards what it took to publish it here when you swore you never would release it. You have your head so far up Stewarts butt you're blind. But this time I hope its gonna cost you." >>
He seems rather angry and bitter.
Russ, NCNE
If you are worried at all, tell him the truth: I broke into your home, at knife point when you were about to delete it, stole it, and posted it under your profile. I'll have to say this under oath, if it comes to that.
If anyone wants to use the image of my coin ......be my guest
Stewart
are they machine doubling? are they counterfeit?
or are they a die that instead of producing 20,000 to 150,000 copies, only made a few before being noticed?
Sinin1
Since any educational content in the 2 original threads has now been deleted as well, the two coins are original mint products. I understand that they have been certified by the mint director as such. They are products of a doubled die.
There was a lot of good discussion going on regarding possibility of other coins out there. One theory proposed a mint employee plucked them from the bin prior to melting of the entire mintage from the die. Anyway, censorship being what it is has taken care of all that.
Jack
Stewart, are you going to add it to your other images of your collection online?
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The owner of the other coin will keep its image hidden forever, or until he gets a decent price. Whichever comes first.
<< <i>The owner of the other coin will keep its image hidden forever, or until he gets a decent price. Whichever comes first. >>
I hear the Izzy Switt heirs have a $50 bag of these 1958 DDO. Better sell now.....
<< <i>The truth is Stewart's acquisition, and his willingness to post it here, has established a price for this coin. LincolnSence was asking a retirement fund price for his coin, Stewart established a real price. LincolnSence expected to make a fortune on this coin and now he's stuck in a price structure. No wonder he's pissed. >>
That makes a world of sense. It also explains why he wouldn't want his coin pictured side by side with Stewart's.
Having thought some more about it, I do think other pictures of the second coin exist. Flynn's write-up mentioned the original owner sent pictures of one of his two coins anonymously to Coin World in 1966 and again in the early 1970s. Flynn then pictures an example that he says is not the one that appeared in CW. If there are just two known, then one of those sets of pictures must be of the 64RD coin.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Stewart
about. I never saw this thread. Rick said in the thread that there where 3 sealed bids. I was one of them at $23K. I posted this on another
thread.
Nick
Here's an interesting question - no obligation for anyone to answer, but I think it is worth asking. I think it's generally accepted that sometimes PCGS will market grade ultra-rarities based on the coin's position in the condition census. I remember reading a post about the 1804 dollars along the lines of "Well the Foo specimen we graded a 67, and the Bar coin was nicer, so we graded it 68."
With that in mind, would those of you who have seen Stewart's example (including LMS himself) say that the coin is accurately graded as a 65RD? Or was it given that grade only because PCGS felt it was demonstrably nicer than the coin PCGS had already graded 64RD?
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
comparing to the photos in Wexler's 1983 book, I knew this was a different coin.
If someone shows me how to upload my photos, I will upload the photos for people to see.
Or I can send to someone else if they know how to do it.
I do not have color photos, all black and white, but very detailed.
Kevin Flynn
comparing to the photos in Wexler's 1983 book, I knew this was a different coin.
If someone shows me how to upload my photos, I will upload the photos for people to see.
Or I can send to someone else if they know how to do it.
I do not have color photos, all black and white, but very detailed.
Kevin Flynn
I would, without question. I saw it raw. To me it was your typical late 50's wheatcent in 65RD (aside from the amazing doubling), some obvious problems when you looked close but very clean and consistant looking from a distance. No major hits, no major spots. It's a run of the mill PCGS 65RD, aside from the variety. Lake's image of the 64RD showed a major hit on the shoulder, a weaker reverse strike, a few spots, and much less remaining red color. It was a nice comparison thread.
As per your PM's to me. They are crude and rude and they tempt me to post them here. But I decline.
How about posting some of your PM comments to me here for all of us to discuss? Your PM conjectures are easily written but tough to back. I'll leave it up to you to state them. If you don't have the courage of your commitments we'll all understand.
1) Yes, I'm a relentless pain is the ass on the forum when it comes to people like you.
2) I'm 49, going on the big "50". Not looking forward to it but there's no turning back. I'm a borderline old man.
3) I dont play with my camera, I try to take the best images I can with it. I usually fall short and delete most of the pics. I'm proud of the few images I post here and feel they represent the coins as accurately as I can.
4) Polite asswipes like you don't tell me how to conduct my activities here.
5) Post your real PM's to me here, not this halfass post.
Lincoln Sense - Because of your jealousy,insecurity and lack of facts you even continue to send me pm's with your childish,pathetic behavior.
Why don't you just post an image of your coin ? Are you embarassed about it ? How about doing something positive ?
Stewart
The point is about to be moot. I'l have Kevin's photos up in a few minutes.
in 1995 and included in his book The Authoritative Reference on Lincoln Cents, coauthored
with John Wexler.
Sence --
Your quote: "Is your ass getting sore with stewarts dick in it? No, I bet you like it just fine."
You seem to think I'm Stewart's spokesperson. Did you actually read the post that Lakes posted? Stewart thought his 1958 DDO was an early die state in the Coin World article. I thought yours was. Did you read the posts here before your profane PM to me?
Simple minds demand simple answers.
I remember seeing the specimen I photographed the first time around 1995,
I had heard about it for years, bought and seached many 58 rolls, talked to other
experts who had done the same.
All believe the 58 was an inside job.
I wanted so bad to purchase it, but believed that because I was stating that it
was genuine in my book, it would have been a conflict of interest to purchase it.
It was one of those coins though that you dream about......
Kevin