It's time to let Shoeless Joe into the hall of fame.
frolico
Posts: 156
in Sports Talk
It was a lifetime ban, and his lifetime ended a while ago.
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<< <i>It was a lifetime ban, and his lifetime ended a while ago. >>
No it's not.
He accepted money to throw a game, and he should never be allowed in. I don't care if his numbers show he still tried to win, by his own admission, he took the money.
If you put him in, you put Rose in immediately as well (even though what Rose did was 1/100000th as bad).
<< <i>Joe Jackson never admitted anything. Nothing was proved in court. Pete Rose is trash. >>
"Also against his case is the fact that Jackson admitted under oath that he agreed to participate in the fix, and accepted $5,000 as partial payment for his cooperation (a sum he claimed to have attempted to return twice). He also admitted to complaining to other conspirators that he had not received his full share. He was advised by the lawyer of Charles Comiskey during this entire time and was encouraged to admit to the fix in a clear conflict of interest. His banishment was based primarily on these admissions. A jury, however, acquitted him of criminal charges related to the scandal, although the trial itself could also be regarded as having been fixed, key evidence having gone missing from the prosecutor's office shortly before the trial"
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<< <i>Joe Jackson never admitted anything. Nothing was proved in court. Pete Rose is trash. >>
"Also against his case is the fact that Jackson admitted under oath that he agreed to participate in the fix, and accepted $5,000 as partial payment for his cooperation (a sum he claimed to have attempted to return twice). He also admitted to complaining to other conspirators that he had not received his full share. He was advised by the lawyer of Charles Comiskey during this entire time and was encouraged to admit to the fix in a clear conflict of interest. His banishment was based primarily on these admissions. A jury, however, acquitted him of criminal charges related to the scandal, although the trial itself could also be regarded as having been fixed, key evidence having gone missing from the prosecutor's office shortly before the trial" >>
Ax, you are kind of disproving your arguement. He was not found guilty in the courts, he tried to give the money back as you quoted, and he played like the stud he was during that series. I am not sure where I stand on the matter, but I think the quote you provided goes against your stance. Furthermore that he was being counceled by Comisky's lawyers to clearly admit he took money.
From what I know Shoeless Joe was not a smart man, someone handed him money he takes it. Someone tells him to say he took money he says it. However, someone asks him not to play as hard as he does everyday, he doesn't do it. I think that is pretty clear. Comparing him to Rose is not apples to apples. Rose bet on baseball. Period. Alledgedly Joe Jackson accepted money that he was advised to admit he accepted, but his performance didn't show he was trying to throw games.
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Ain't gonna happen and it ain't gonna happen for Pete Rose either. Letting them in would basically say, "Go ahead and gamble, or be involved with gamblers betting on baseball, bet on the games, very possibly artificially alter the outcome of the games because you are greedy or because some bookie will break your legs due to gambling debts if you don't, potentially ruin the integrity of the game...yes, you'll get barred for 5 or 10 years but then we'll forgive you and all is ok, and let you back into the game, and into the Hall of Fame if you're deserving." Those two players already got what they deserved - a lifetime ban from MLB.
Obviously, he only played so long because he was thrown out of baseball, but that's the way it goes. Had he not been thrown out, he quite possibly would have ended up going down in history regarded as good a hitter as Cobb, with the stats to back it up. But as it is, he didn't even play for a decade. And as history has repeatedly proven with other career shortened candidates (see Munson), the HOF is rightfully not a dumping ground for could-have-beens, especially the sentimental ones whose argument for induction is often nothing more than that - sentimental.
Also, Charles Comisky (who by all accounts was stingy and rude) is one of the true baseball pioneers to whom all baseball fans owe a debt of gratitude. Try reading a biography written by someone not blinded by the hollywood Field Of Dreams version of what happened. To call him a "piece of crap" is childish and just plain ignorant.
Besides, I'm pretty sure Jackson was a crack head anways.
I'm not piling on, just curious.
Thank you
Because Kevin Costner built a ball field for him and because the White Sox are in the World Series.
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<< <i>Joe Jackson never admitted anything. Nothing was proved in court. Pete Rose is trash. >>
"Also against his case is the fact that Jackson admitted under oath that he agreed to participate in the fix, and accepted $5,000 as partial payment for his cooperation (a sum he claimed to have attempted to return twice). He also admitted to complaining to other conspirators that he had not received his full share. He was advised by the lawyer of Charles Comiskey during this entire time and was encouraged to admit to the fix in a clear conflict of interest. His banishment was based primarily on these admissions. A jury, however, acquitted him of criminal charges related to the scandal, although the trial itself could also be regarded as having been fixed, key evidence having gone missing from the prosecutor's office shortly before the trial" >>
Ax, you are kind of disproving your arguement. He was not found guilty in the courts, he tried to give the money back as you quoted, and he played like the stud he was during that series. I am not sure where I stand on the matter, but I think the quote you provided goes against your stance. Furthermore that he was being counceled by Comisky's lawyers to clearly admit he took money.
From what I know Shoeless Joe was not a smart man, someone handed him money he takes it. Someone tells him to say he took money he says it. However, someone asks him not to play as hard as he does everyday, he doesn't do it. I think that is pretty clear. Comparing him to Rose is not apples to apples. Rose bet on baseball. Period. Alledgedly Joe Jackson accepted money that he was advised to admit he accepted, but his performance didn't show he was trying to throw games. >>
Most people are under the misconception that Shoeless Joe was this "stud" that batted in the high .300 during the series and was an honest player. But, once you peel away the "standard deviation" from his play, some doubts do certainly arise. Read this article for more info
Was Shoeless Joe so good of a hitter that he could choose when to hit the ball and for what reason?
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