<< <i>I am surprised at the price on this one. The rare variety for a 1806 is the knob 6 on the obverse paired with a reverse where the lower stem of the branch is missing. This coin is not the rare variety. >>
It's shaping up like this may well be the first known coin of an entirely new variety...possibly. That would make it exceedingly rare.
"Darkside" refers to coins that aren't U.S. coins. "Greyside" coins are Canadian. These terms are used by people on the forums to help distinguish what people collect. Be weary of those who ask you to come over to the darkside. . .
I've had great transactions with people like: drwstr123, CCC2010, AlanLastufka, Type2, Justlooking, zas107, StrikeOutXXX, 10point, 66Tbird, and many more!
<< <i>As for crediting the "discovery" I think 99% of the credit should go to the winner of the auction. A mention of the Bust Guys here that first called it seems appropriate as well. Perhaps a very small footnote about LordM and myself in a funny story of how the coin came to be found but I feel neither of us really deserve any true mention. >>
We certainly deserve no discovery credit, as we were clueless about the whole thing.
<< <i>Did Cladiator split the windfall with you, LMV? >>
No, nor should he. It's his windfall. However, if he wishes to "throw me a bone" later I wouldn't complain. I certainly would've thrown him a modest bone if our roles were reversed.
The funny thing is, I might've eventually listed the coin on eBay myself- I sold it at the same time I was selling off some other holey duplicates, as some of you might recall. (Though I was tempted to hang onto that particular half). Cladiator got my Draped half and one of my Draped quarters and Goose3 got one of the Bust halves before the rest went to eBay.
Would you care to share any info on how you came to own the coin? It's going to get written up and that is as much of the story as the ebay line.
I very much doubt that new ones are going to pop up as quickly as with 07 115. That obverse was so very similar to 1807 Obv. 3 that it fooled experts. This one is as different in appearance as a new die could be. As to value, if it were properly presented at auction (not the mindless Heritage approach), I'd bet the mortgage that bidding would run it to $5-$10k. Haven't heard yet if this will make it to the new editon of Overton. It's probably too late.
I got it from a dealer at the 2003 FUN show, as I recall. Can't remember the dealer's name. I traded an Irish coin and some world proof sets for it. Figure I had $40-50 in the trade.
Cladiator told me about this link. Wow, cool stories.
I am the new holder of the 1806 half. Afraid its current accommodations aren't nearly as nice as lordmarcovan's Holey Coin Vest.
Cherrypicked!? I only bid on it because of it's nice toning. Four years ago I started looking for new varieties. With the quantity of sellers on eBay I figured coins would come to light that had never been viewed by experts, and that new varieties were bound to be out there. In the excitement of the early going I found several "new varieties". Excitedly I bid $2000 on new 1794 large cent. After I won it, I realized the photo in the guide book was wrong, and that the coin was a common variety. (Fortunately there were no other equally enthusiastic bidders, and I won the lot for $50.) On another occasion I found a new die marriage, only to discover that the seller had mistakenly posted the obverse and reverse of two different coins. I also discovered "new varieties" that were the product of tooling, or hyperaging of reproduction pieces, and one large cent so worn and damaged that I'm afraid no one else will confirm that it is new variety, let alone a large cent. I came to appreciate the words in Walter Breen's Half Cent book that "things are seldom what they seem". I stopped looking so intently, but I didn't lose all hope. (In fact there's a new variety of 1795 dollar on eBay right now. Hmm.., I wonder how high I'll go? )
When I saw the the 1806 half, I took a pass through the Overton book, and when I came to the last variety without finding a match for the obverse the familiar heart palpitation started. I double checked and checked other sources, in case there was an error in Overton, and still couldn't find a match for the obverse. At this point one starts to get a little greedy, like gollum, and I silently cursed Cladiator for such stellar photos. I was surprised and very excited when the bidding didn't go higher.
As for crediting the "discovery", I don't know how these things work. Like Cladiator I like to be cautious. (The authenticity hasn't been confirmed. We're working on getting some experts to take a look at it.) However, for the sake of discussion, I can say that I wasn't the first to identify it as a new variety. When I bid, I knew what it wasn't, but I didn't know what it was. I was unable to find a photo or description of O-128, so figured the holey half was either O-128 or a new variety.
Cladiator and lordmarcovan, I'll treat you to lunch if we ever meet.
p.s. Hope nysoto forgets to start looking at holed coins.
I am not convinced this is a new overton variety. The wear on this coin is considerable so some of the details needed for identifying the coin by the overton variety are missing. This may just be a well worn common die marriage.
Bust haves have been well researched by overton and others. It would be very unlikely for a new die marriage to just pop up.
colridge - Outstanding! I'm really glad you signed up and went public with the coin.
Merc - Although I am cautious I am realistic and this coin is strongly pointing towards a new variety. They do come up every now and then. Do you remember the discovery coin 1807 Draped that Baley found not too long ago?
colridge - Turn on your PM function so people can send you messages Also, you may want to make a new posting on this subject with an appropriate title to draw in the right people.
<< <i>I am not convinced this is a new overton variety. The wear on this coin is considerable so some of the details needed for identifying the coin by the overton variety are missing. This may just be a well worn common die marriage.
Bust haves have been well researched by overton and others. It would be very unlikely for a new die marriage to just pop up. >>
Look at how close the upper star on the left is to the L. None of the known obverses has such a tiny space between. Also, there is a huge distance between the lower star on the left and the date, more so than other obverses.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
I was talking on the phone with a freind of mine who shall remain nameless, but does know quite a bit about the value and variety attribution of early draped bust halves and capped halves, and he feels the coin is definitley the new 0-129. He estimates the value at 8K to the right buyer. Un real!! and it has a hole.
I'm a bit late, but I finally brought my Overton book to work so I could check this coin (no computer at home). I was wrong with my first guess. Even though it is well worn and has a hole in it, it does not match any known Overton variety. None have star 7 that close to the L in Liberty. Congrats to the new owner for seeing this!
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
maybe the parties involved can post more permanent references (as opposed to ebay links that are outdated after 90 days or so) and pics to help keep this thread as a valuable reference?
The thread about dealers having hurt feelings when cherrypicked reminded me of this. Collectors should be thick-skinned too if they get a fair price (or more than fair price) on a sale even if cherrypicked.
Comments
<< <i>I am surprised at the price on this one. The rare variety for a 1806 is the knob 6 on the obverse paired with a reverse where the lower stem of the branch is missing. This coin is not the rare variety. >>
It's shaping up like this may well be the first known coin of an entirely new variety...possibly. That would make it exceedingly rare.
<< <i>As for crediting the "discovery" I think 99% of the credit should go to the winner of the auction. A mention of the Bust Guys here that first called it seems appropriate as well. Perhaps a very small footnote about LordM and myself in a funny story of how the coin came to be found but I feel neither of us really deserve any true mention. >>
<< <i>Did Cladiator split the windfall with you, LMV? >>
No, nor should he. It's his windfall. However, if he wishes to "throw me a bone" later I wouldn't complain.
The funny thing is, I might've eventually listed the coin on eBay myself- I sold it at the same time I was selling off some other holey duplicates, as some of you might recall. (Though I was tempted to hang onto that particular half). Cladiator got my Draped half and one of my Draped quarters and Goose3 got one of the Bust halves before the rest went to eBay.
Would you care to share any info on how you came to own the coin? It's going to get written up and that is as much of the story as the ebay line.
I very much doubt that new ones are going to pop up as quickly as with 07 115. That obverse was so very similar to 1807 Obv. 3 that it fooled experts. This one is as different in appearance as a new die could be. As to value, if it were properly presented at auction (not the mindless Heritage approach), I'd bet the mortgage that bidding would run it to $5-$10k. Haven't heard yet if this will make it to the new editon of Overton. It's probably too late.
Slumlord98
edited to add: I wish you guys had noticed it while it was still up for auction! geeez lol
<< <i>Actually I think several people that should know about this probably don't as of yet. >>
They do now.
I am the new holder of the 1806 half. Afraid its current accommodations aren't nearly as nice as lordmarcovan's Holey Coin Vest.
Cherrypicked!? I only bid on it because of it's nice toning.
When I saw the the 1806 half, I took a pass through the Overton book, and when I came to the last variety without finding a match for the obverse the familiar heart palpitation started. I double checked and checked other sources, in case there was an error in Overton, and still couldn't find a match for the obverse. At this point one starts to get a little greedy, like gollum, and I silently cursed Cladiator for such stellar photos.
As for crediting the "discovery", I don't know how these things work. Like Cladiator I like to be cautious. (The authenticity hasn't been confirmed. We're working on getting some experts to take a look at it.) However, for the sake of discussion, I can say that I wasn't the first to identify it as a new variety. When I bid, I knew what it wasn't, but I didn't know what it was. I was unable to find a photo or description of O-128, so figured the holey half was either O-128 or a new variety.
Cladiator and lordmarcovan, I'll treat you to lunch if we ever meet.
p.s. Hope nysoto forgets to start looking at holed coins.
Bust haves have been well researched by overton and others. It would be very unlikely for a new die marriage to just pop up.
FrederickCoinClub
Merc - Although I am cautious I am realistic and this coin is strongly pointing towards a new variety. They do come up every now and then. Do you remember the discovery coin 1807 Draped that Baley found not too long ago?
FrederickCoinClub
<< <i>I am not convinced this is a new overton variety. The wear on this coin is considerable so some of the details needed for identifying the coin by the overton variety are missing. This may just be a well worn common die marriage.
Bust haves have been well researched by overton and others. It would be very unlikely for a new die marriage to just pop up. >>
Look at how close the upper star on the left is to the L. None of the known obverses has such a tiny space between. Also, there is a huge distance between the lower star on the left and the date, more so than other obverses.
FrederickCoinClub
Like VOC Numismatics on facebook
<< <i>I want to collect die varieties and have some fun
Buy the Overton book first.
The verdict is in, it's a new variety
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Would one care to divulge exactly what he GOT for it?
The suspense is killin' me.
Tom
but i will ALWAYS share with the tree it got picked from
<< <i>I need to get the overton book!!!!! >>
I highly recommend it.
A cherry doesn't need to be a huge R8 discovery, either.... it's still pretty cool to cherry an R5 variety for "type" price
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Here is the story from the BHNC perspective, with pics.
I was not interviewed for it but most of the facts are accurate, aside from some of the info about my Holey Coin Vest and Holey Gold Hat.