Group wants to Retire Clemente's #21 across the league

Coinhusker1

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Discuss.

thegemmintman

Clemente wasn't the first Latino to play Major League ball. Hispanics didn't have to overcome what Blacks did. It's a ridiculous idea.

1420sports

"We think we have a very strong argument," Mateo said.

I disagree. Clemente was great, but to compare this to the reason Jackie Robinson's number was retired is not the same.

Besides Clemente, Warren Spahn and Bob Lemon both wore #21 and that number is retired with the Braves and Indians respectively. The only other major league team with the same number retired is the Montreal Expos - #10 (Gary Carter and Rusty Staub).

Roberto Clemente, besides being a fantastic ballplayer and humanitarian, did not break any barriers like Jackie Robinson did. When MLB retired his number, I thought that was a noble gesture and a long time coming. Not intending to diminish Clemente's contributions both on and off the field, there really is no reason other than this statement "The bottom line is that in this era of so many Latin ballplayers being caught up in scandals..." and that is not good enough.

yawie99

Great player and apparently a great human as well, but as you guys have said, he doesn't approach Robinson in terms of his impact on the game or society. It is a pretty ridiculous idea.

carew4me

I doubt Clemente would have even wanted that. I guess hispanics want their saint in baseball too.

Axtell

Frank Robinson said it best:

"If we do this for him, where does it stop?"

Clemente was a great player, a tragic ending, but as was mentioned, wasn't the first hispanic player and didn't have to overcome what Robinson did.

dgbaseball

Think there are much better ways to honor a player or a man than sticking his jersey number on the wall years after he's passed away.

Jackie Robinson's number being "retired", for instance, was essentially an MLB P.R. event. OK, it's retired, but it's ok if some guys continue to wear it, because they are honoring him too, but those players have to come out and say they'll continue to wear it in his honor, but every stadium needs to put it up on the wall. So it's a number on the wall.

What MLB should do is quit calling it the Rookie of the Year award, and only refer to it as the Jackie Robinson Award. Decreeing that no one (well no one except Mo Vaughn, and Mariano Rivera, and a handful of others at the time) can wear a number is kind of an arbitrary way to honor his legacy. Robinson's rookie year, obviously his first year as the first black player in MLB, captures his legacy in a nice way - it honors the breakthrough season. It's appropriate that the ROY award is called the Jackie Robinson award because, quite simply, Jackie Robinson had the most impressive rookie season in MLB history (and even put up some incredible numbers as well). It gives context to the actual man and the name, instead of just being a number on the wall. And what are the Yankees going to do when they want to retire Rivera's number? 42a and 42b I guess.

Anyways, same goes for this group crusading for Clemente. It's a crusade for crusading's sake.

1420sports

What MLB should do is quit calling it the Rookie of the Year award, and only refer to it as the Jackie Robinson Award.

sounds good, but what about the AL? The Larry Doby award? Doby is often foreshadowed by Robinson ... deservedly so, as Jackie was not only better but was truly the first black player in the game.

As far as Rivera is concerned (Vaughn isn't close to being worthy of number retirement), the Yankees will have that number in pinstripes. I cannot remember exactly, but isn't "Robinson 42" in red? I know it is separate from other numbers.

dgbaseball

1420...

See, exactly.

The ROY award (for both leagues) IS technically the "Jackie Robinson Award", and has been since sometime in the mid 80s.

But no one seems to know that because no one seems to care. It's easier to stick a number on the wall and be done with it.

Yeah, I think teams use different colors for the 42s. Which sort shows the silliness of it all.

Coinhusker1

<< <i>Frank Robinson said it best:

"If we do this for him, where does it stop?"

Clemente was a great player, a tragic ending, but as was mentioned, wasn't the first hispanic player and didn't have to overcome what Robinson did. >>



That is my thought as well. If you do Clemente, then I guess Hank Greenberg would be next.

And, in fact, you could say that Robinson ulimately opened the door for Hispanic players anyway.

If you want to retire a number for someone else who had a wide ranging impact, how about Curt Flood? The owners would never go for it, though.

Bottom line, the Clemente thing will not happen.

coinkat

Clemente was a great player... It is not right for him to be compared to Jackie Robinson. Further, there is a player that everyone seems to forget that played with the Cleveland Indians that had an impact too. I don't see his name mentioned as often as it should be.

I have always liked Frank Robinson and while some may say he said it best, I am not so sure...

interchanges

yup, no doubt he was a great icon, but Jackie's should be the only one for all time. If I'm not mistaken, only Mariano Rivera can wear it (#42) under the grandfather clause. (Mo Vaughn maybe?)

DirtyHarry

Very tough call, but I agree the number should not be retired in MLB. Unfortuate to say that Robinson broke the barrier for all "players of color." It ain't the same, but that's how it was. Some will disagree.

calleocho

Cuban born Esteban Bellan was the first hispanic to play in a major league in the US back in 1871...I think that the first Puerto Rican played in the US around 1890's

interchanges

For that matter, Moses "Fleetwood" Walker was the first black player to play pro baseball. same time period.

GoBravesGo

this is ALMOST as silly an idea as voting Thurman Munson into the HOF just because he died and MIGHT have had a great career.


(but not quite a silly)

frolico

I don't think they should retire anyone's number that didn't play on that team, just like they shouldn't have retired gretzky's 99 across the league. Years later, people will see a 42 and wonder why it's there. A better thing would have been a statue of Robinson, saying what he went through and what he did and how he handled it, or rename an award, or start a college fund in his name, for poor inner city students that do well in school, but have no money for college. A college fund would do more than a simple number on a wall. It could almost be like a Nobel prize for good students. They could do the same thing with Clemente, where each team donates $10,000 every year. They would be putting away $300,000 for college tuition for let's say 30 students a year.

1420sports

Years later, people will see a 42 and wonder why it's there

and when my son asks me who that 42 belonged to, I will tell him who it belonged to.

dgbaseball

or rename an award

Kind of like the ROY award? Try to keep up here. I like the idea of a college fund, assuming my kids can get a piece of the action.

Jersey

No way Clemente's number should be retired. Jackie Robinson endured much hell as he broke the color barrier. God bless him for his courage and restraint. My wife knows next to nothing about baseball but she knows who Jackie Robinson was and what he achieved. Clemente was a fine person for what he did. But, he did not influence society the way Jackie did. My opinion anyway.

Cubfan

What is it with the latin tributes lately?

I saw Clemente's picture on boxes of Wheaties today.

frolico