Need your advice!!!!

Stingray

Ok, here is the situation, I saw a card that I wanted on Ebay for my 78 set. Start price was $3.99. I e-mailed the seller and said how about $10 including shipping for a BIN price, he agreed. I send out the payment last Friday, and today the auction is still up. I e-mail him that he should close the auction in case anyone should bid on the card. I know he does not want to close the auction in case I do not send payment and he will have to pay for the fees. He e-mails me back and states that he will once the payment is received and the if anyone outbids my $10 price he will email my money back. WTF!! We had an agreement for that price, not in case someone should out bid me in the mean time. I e-mailed him with my complaint that we had such an agreement. I will wait for his response.

Stingray

mikeschmidt

Sounds like he is a jerk - but I assure you that you will get no sympathy from Ebay.

I wouldn't deal with him again.

~ms

lostdart58

dgbaseball

Stingray, You're breaking ebay rules by offering to buy an item off-line, and then complaining about the seller who is essentially only doing what he has to do to protect himself, while others now come up with schemes to try to screw the seller.

You guys are too much!

From a seller's point of view, I'd do the same thing assuming the buyer is someone I didn't know (although from the sounds of it he should've made it a little more clear up front). For a repeat customer who I knew would send a check, I'd end an auction without payment. Otherwise, I certainly wouldn't end any auction until payment actually arrives, that's a given (and I'm sure you can appreciate that).

But if he ends the auction after bids have already been placed, then he's a jerk to the other bidders.

Of course, by agreeing to accept a mailed payment (instead of requiring paypal or actually adding BIN to the auction for you to bid) he put himself in a tough position - either screw people bidding on the auction by ending it early because you made an offer to buy the item off ebay (which is against the rules) or screw you and reneg on the off-line deal, follow ebay rules and maintain fairness to bidders on the auction.

Either way he loses. Again, he should've been a little clearer up front about his thinking, assuming that's his reasoning. When I get a off-line BIN offer, my responses are generally the same - if there are bids, sorry can't do it. If payment arrives before any bids, sure I'll end it. If payment arrives after bids, sorry but I've got to refund.

Now I'll go read the thread about how sellers who end auctions early are big jerks, especially when I'M the one winning their auction and they end it early out from under me...

Stingray

I guess I did not realize that was an E-bay rule. I have done it before, but only if there were no other bids on the cards at the time I asked the seller if they would like to do a BIN. As far as the current situation. I am the only bidder on the card and I figured that the seller would be happy to sell if for my offer price. I would think that if he is happy with the price then the auction could be ended, therefore hopefully no one will bid on it in the mean time and no other bidders will get upset. I think that if I offer to buy the card for X-amount, and he agrees, then the deal is done, he should not be allowed to try and get more than our agreed upon price.


Stingray

MorrellMan

I agree with DGB 99% - the only thing I'd take issue with is: From a seller's point of view, I'd do the same thing assuming the buyer is someone I didn't know - I would not agree to an offline purchase at all. An auction is an auction - an offer to sell a card to the highest bidder at the conclusion of the auction. It is not an offer to turn into a straight sell if a nice offer comes in. The seller stepped in it the instant he agreed to your offline offer.

Stingray

Had I known that this was not an acceptable practice, I would have not done it. I wish the seller would have know this and not accepted my offer. Now that I know this, I will make sure not to do it again. Has anyone else ever offered a BIN on a card that did not have one?

P.S. I am the only bidder, so far on the card at $3.99, so if I win the card and with shipping it will be $6.99 total, should he refund me my $3.00 sent I already sent him the $10?

Stingray

envoy98

I've offered after an auction has ended with no bids (twice to people we all buy from on these boards) and offered their full original starting bid price plus s+h. I was told "no thank you" both times and the cards were subsequently relisted for lower prices...to which I again offered my original offer and was turned down. I ended up missing bidding on the cards again and they both sold for less than half my offer. I can appreciate the sellers wanting to run the auctions etc but I offered after the auctions had ended after 7 days and received no bids. I don't pay for a snipe service so I try to get in at the last minute...sometimes it works for me, sometimes it doesn't. I've had people offer me a price after my auctions have ended, particularly on auctions that had a reserve that was not met, and I've sold the cards after the fact.

Personally, I couldn't care less if a seller takes a BIN type offer before an auction has bids and ends the auction early. However, they should require immediate paypal payment and end the auction as soon as payment is received and not screw any bidders that do come in to bid, or they should change the auction to a BIN auction (preferred) that way there is a record of it on ebay, feedback can be exchanged and ebay gets paid and you're not breaking any rules.

I guess I care a little bit less about this than some others, but I agree with morrell that "the seller stepped in it the instant he accepted your offer". He should have made it a BIN auction and called it a day if was going to allow that.

Treetop

I guess I did not realize that was an E-bay rule. I have done it before

Stingray's a cheater? NOOOOOOOO!!!...............

Stingray

Geez, I did not read the E-bay handbook, I have done it like twice before, but only on items where there were no other bidders and the items had been up for bid for at least a few days. I did not realize that was a no-no. I will have to make sure I make any offers on auctions that did not sell and are over with next time.


Stingray

sagard

People have and will make sellers offers in off Ebay deals for as long as Ebay will exist. Typically if you are making such an offer you want to be able to send immediate payment. That way the seller can close the auction and not worry about wasting their listing fees if you don't send the check.

Stone193

I agree.

Stone

WinPitcher

I also agree.

Win

EagleEyeKid

Typically if you are making such an offer you want to be able to send immediate payment.

I have no problem with this. I've ended several auctions because a potential bidder offered me
a crazy amount that I couldn't refuse. He/she needs that card for a set, or collects a certain player
and doesn't want to wait or lose out on it. I would only end it if Paypal is shot to me immediately.....
auction ends then. No way would I wait for payment via the mail to end it. There wouldn't be a deal
to begin with. I think we've all done this on both sides (buyer or seller) whether we want to
admit it or not.

Boopotts

<< <i>I agree with DGB 99% - the only thing I'd take issue with is: From a seller's point of view, I'd do the same thing assuming the buyer is someone I didn't know - I would not agree to an offline purchase at all. An auction is an auction - an offer to sell a card to the highest bidder at the conclusion of the auction. It is not an offer to turn into a straight sell if a nice offer comes in. The seller stepped in it the instant he agreed to your offline offer. >>




It is still the seller's card until the conclusion of the auction, so I fail to see why the seller should be under any moral imperative to see the auction through to the end.

MorrellMan

<< <i>

<< <i>I agree with DGB 99% - the only thing I'd take issue with is: From a seller's point of view, I'd do the same thing assuming the buyer is someone I didn't know - I would not agree to an offline purchase at all. An auction is an auction - an offer to sell a card to the highest bidder at the conclusion of the auction. It is not an offer to turn into a straight sell if a nice offer comes in. The seller stepped in it the instant he agreed to your offline offer. >>




It is still the seller's card until the conclusion of the auction, so I fail to see why the seller should be under any moral imperative to see the auction through to the end. >>



There's a line of logic here that some people don't get. It has to do with ethics. An auction is a good faith offer to sell an item to the highest bidder. Sure the item is still the seller's, just like any item for sale belongs to the seller until the deal is completed. But how ethically challenged would a car dealer be who offers a car for X amount of dollars, only to rescind the offer when a buyer appears. I've seen some pretty brutal car lot fights over just that ethical breach. Sure it's not illegal, but it ain't right.

The fine print on this particular deal is that there were no bids on the auction (right?). I think a seller has a right to pull an auction that has no takers. So maybe we're all in agreement after all.

Stingray

Well this is great, someone has bid on the card that I paid $10, and has bid more than that with shipping costs. I will never do this again!!
I hope this is not a board member, anyone here have an ebay ID of kushlaw?

Stingray

Southsider

For what it's worth, here's what the UCC has to say about auctions. I've bolded the provision discussing the right to withdraw goods put up without reserve. While it mainly applies to the traditional type of auctions, I think it could easily be applied to Ebay and Internet auctions, too.

Uniform Commercial Code - Article 2: Sales

§ 2-328. Sale by Auction.

(1) In a sale by auction if goods are put up in lots each lot is the subject of a separate sale.

(2) A sale by auction is complete when the auctioneer so announces by the fall of the hammer or in other customary manner. Where a bid is made while the hammer is falling in acceptance of a prior bid the auctioneer may in his discretion reopen the bidding or declare the goods sold under the bid on which the hammer was falling.

(3) Such a sale is with reserve unless the goods are in explicit terms put up without reserve. In an auction with reserve the auctioneer may withdraw the goods at any time until he announces completion of the sale. In an auction without reserve, after the auctioneer calls for bids on an article or lot, that article or lot cannot be withdrawn unless no bid is made within a reasonable time. In either case a bidder may retract his bid until the auctioneer's announcement of completion of the sale, but a bidder's retraction does not revive any previous bid.

(4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale.

HoofHearted

Qustion: Does anybody know if a seller can set up a BIN after an item is set up for auction??

I was wondering if that could have been done by the seller, communicated to Stingray, and then he could complete the purchase thay way.

Just curious...

hh

jmbkb4

<< <i>Qustion: Does anybody know if a seller can set up a BIN after an item is set up for auction??

I was wondering if that could have been done by the seller, communicated to Stingray, and then he could complete the purchase thay way.

Just curious...

hh >>


Not without cancelling bids and setting up a new auction (new eBay item #, etc., new listing fees, etc.).

jmbkb4

STINGRAY:

Dude, you shoulda used paypal............

Never woulda been a problem!!!

CDsNuts

Before ebay and paypal, a bunch of us bought and sold in the newsgroups with a decent succes rate of completed transactions (admittedly not as good as ebay). When somebody makes an offer and it is accepted, it is a deal. The only thing different here is that the card has been put up for auction. However, since no bids have been placed, no one is getting screwed. Upon agreeing to take Sting's offer, he should have pulled the auction and awaited payment. If it didn't come, it's not like the guy couldn't have started another auction. The guy made a deal and he should have stuck with it instead of looking for a higher price.

Lee

Stingray

Well the issue now is since he did not pull the auction, someone else did bid on the card and won the auction, so now the seller will have to deal with this person. He can just send me my $10 back at this point and I will make sure not to do this again.

Stingray