In response to GCL

laurentyvan · October 3, 2005 12:48AM

I have lifted my response to a thread by GCL for the purposes of this thread-I am sorry if I have offended the sensibilities of members with more patience than myself.

Let this ugly thread die, please... my sentiments as well. But, GCL has been a thorn in the side of many forum members who have done their best to intereact with GCL on a professional, advisory basis, giving him the truth (as we see it). There is no end to his worrisome, bothersome, uncertain antics.

If he is who he claims to be, (a young beginning collector) you are the biggest pain in the arse I have ever seen.

I have attempted to treat with you in the past and have been sorry for it. I have attempted to distance myself from you, but you continue to PM me and post questions and threads addressed to me personally (very rude), but despite the lack of response on my side, you persist in your attempts to annoy me. Yes annoy. Life is too short to put up with your BS.

When someone answers your pitiful queries you put them through hell -you never listen to advice. When you do receive advice you ignore it, or ask the same question publicly that you received advice on privately, disregarding the good intentions of long-time members. This is not guaranteed to endear you to us.

There is an onus on the part of forum members to respond to collectors of all stripes, novices or experts. These queries are responded to with the best of intentions, but you strip away the flesh of patience which we all wear (to an extraordinary degree) in your case.

Please cease and desist.

I do not, however, believe that you will do so-you are too awkwardly persistent. Please, please reform or you may become subject to LordM's (as he put it in the past in reference to another troll), "persistent ignore", sorry for the bad english.

I do not like to criticise very often, but you do take the cake...

Edited for spelling

ROBERTB · October 3, 2005 1:35AM

SYRACUSIAN · October 3, 2005 1:46AM

I believe that Laurent has expressed many members' feelings in his usual eloquent way. I couldn't agree more, there comes a time when some things have to be said, even if it hurts. I hope it will be beneficial in the long run.

secondrepublic · October 3, 2005 1:55AM

I haven't participated in the GCL strings, but let me just say "Amen" to the Laurentyvan's post.

There's nothing wrong with this forum being "educational," but it should be educational at a higher level than simply "is this coin worth 90 bucks." Seriously, who cares. This forum is most useful (to me at least) when advanced and intermediate collectors share knowledge, tips, advice, pictures of new finds, etc.

When it gets down to the level of someone who seemingly doesn't know anything about numismatics, then it's a waste of time reading the threads and responding to them.

My advice to new collectors (Darkside or otherwise) is to go to library or online and read everything on coins that you can, look in old auction catalogues, Krause-Mishler, etc. New Darkside collectors can learn a lot about the hobby even from reading Liteside material. The basics of bullion v. numismatic, cleaned coins, states of preservation, etc. apply to both US and world material.

Instead of blindly buying more coins, I would recommend to GCL that he instead get some good reference books and read them cover to cover. Even sitting down with Krause-Mishler and figuring out what you're interested in will be more rewarding to you than simply shooting randomly and buying stuff with little numismatic value. You should pick an area of specialization and try to become an expert in it. The hobby will probably be more rewarding to you that way than simply picking coins based on price or pretty designs.

laurentyvan · October 3, 2005 2:15AM

seemingly doesn't know anything about numismatics

This assumption is also at the crux of the matter: I have read GCL threads on other sites (where he has succeeded masterfully in alienating that body as well) which exhibit a surprising understanding of Numismatics the likes of which he has never exhibited here.*

What gives?

Or, more to the point, who cares?

Sigh...

*(Edited to add- he did have an amazingly nice interaction with Sumnom recently for which I give grudging approval, but this also seems to demonstate my point)

spoon · October 3, 2005 2:22AM

I echo the above comments, especially on the value of education/reading.

Beyond that, though, I would strongly recommend to GCL that he start by collecting more affordable coins. This is the Darkside, there is a multitude of them! Not only would he get more bang for the buck, but by starting small he can get a feel for how the market works. This is the main thing he is lacking. He can become a smart collector even without a library of numismatic materials if only he would take the time to learn the basics.

Learn grading and conservation. Do this by observing the threads here on this forum. Buy cheaper coins on ebay, old, new, third-world or otherwise. Compare the quality, try to draw inferences about the minting process, circulation, etc. From there track down some print or online references and then come here for clarifying questions.

Learn pricing. Everyone takes a hit every now and then. The books aren't always right. Watch ebay without buying a thing. See what certain things sell for routinely (try broad areas, France, Portuguese colonial, etc, then focus on particular coins within that). When you get a good feel for things you will make more educated, less risky and more enjoyable purchases. But DON'T buy blindly only to flagellate about the price and the seller afterward. Ignorance is cannot be blamed on others.

Once you get a foundation in these things you'll be tempted by more advanced questions. You'll want to know the minute history behind the coins and the society that produced them. This is where numismatics becomes enriching. If the hobby is only a neurotic impulse to you you are wasting money.

Above all, shut up and listen to those more experienced. This goes for anything in life. If you show that you are not receptive to genuine help you will find less and less of it coming your way. A stubborn person is a bad investment of our time. Of course we are always glad to see a newbie asking questions. But we always hope that newbie will someday learn to fish on his own. Only so many free lunches before you're cut off.

SYRACUSIAN · October 3, 2005 2:45AM

I don't want to overstrech it, but spoon's post is the kind that GCL seems to read diagonally and never take into consideration. And this is why most of us have run out of patience.

There's nothing wrong with being a gold fan,I know many people who collect gold coins exclusively,but with the same passion and interest as others collect copper or silver. It's already been said many times that coins are a bad investment as a general rule. Gold coins have an intrinsic value that is reassuring but they are also much more expensive,so the amount of research and reading required is even bigger and the mistakes can be very costly. The conservation of the sovereign was one of them.

secondrepublic · October 3, 2005 3:01AM

I agree with Spoon and Syracusian.

GCL: Pick a speciality - a real one, not "gold coins anywhere and everywhere" - and learn everything you can about the specialty.

If you like gold coins, you should pick one country or a small number of countries and try to build a real set.

There are some very cool gold coins from various countries that you could spend years or decades collecting and still not build a complete set. For example, I personally tend to love the designs on the gold coins of Czechoslovakia from the early 20th century. Your friend Clark Smith is also selling one right now dated 1932, mintage 1742 pieces, for $280. The mintages tend to be pretty low and the designs very nice.

Whatever area you pick, I'd recommend you real all you can about it before buying anything.

Spiffy469 · October 3, 2005 3:10AM

Sylvestius · October 3, 2005 3:45AM

With respect all these things have been said before and there’s not much point in reiterating them if it is merely a case of trying to blow against the wind.

Although I would be very happy for GCL to continue asking me for my advice but I’d have to make it quite clear here and now that I am not an investment forecaster but rather more a numismatist. So if you need a question answering about the historical context of a coin (particularly British coins) then I am quite happy to take the time to answer your questions and share my knowledge with you. So far as I am able to based upon the knowledge I have gained as a collector and my own personal experience of the coin world.

As for investment potential and market value then I’m afraid this is not within my area of interest or expertise and thus I cannot be of any assistance.

Speciality, how about a date run of George V London mint half sovereigns? 1911-1915 in EF.

Kurt4 · October 3, 2005 5:40AM

I agree with alot that was said here. I know that in the past two months I've bought alot more books than coins. If nothing else you will learn how to ask "the right" questions. Hang in there.

cosmicdebris · October 3, 2005 5:49AM

I have generally tried to steer clear of GCL for all the reasons stated in this thread and I will continue to do so.

Excellent post laurentyvan.

Millertime · October 3, 2005 6:00AM

<< I have generally tried to steer clear of GCL for all the reasons stated in this thread and I will continue to do so.

Excellent post laurentyvan.

>>

Refrema · October 3, 2005 6:00AM

I agree 100% with Bill & Laurentyvan

Bob

Sylvestius · October 3, 2005 6:20AM

Another forum has just welcomed GCL... the question about whether to purchase that gold coin or not has surfaced on the first post.

Frankly and although i hate to say it, if i was Lord Marcovan i wouldn't have been so patient i would have refused to sell him the coin. I think this question is just gonna go round forum to forum and each flurry of answers will add to his indecisiveness. I think the good Lord is gonna be the one who's got to make the decision in the end, because i don't think GCL is going to be able to do it.

I can understand where this indecision comes from as i've had moments like that myself when i was hedging over one coin or another. I think GCL is genuinely keen but lacks knowledge and thus understandably lacks confidence in his own judgement. I think at present gold coins are a bad starting point for that collector, there's just too much money riding on the purchases that only exacerbates the indecision problem that most newbie's face.

MacCrimmon · October 3, 2005 6:29AM

This is JEOPARDY with Alex Trebek........

In the category of Darkside, for $1000, we have,

"The IGNORE USER Function."

Beeeeeeeeeeeeepppp! "MacCrimmon; the question?"

"What is the best method to handle a troll named GCL?" . . . . .

. . . ding-ding-ding-dingggggg!! "MacCrimmon, you are correct.....jolly good show, what."

GoldCoinLover · October 3, 2005 7:08AM

<< seemingly doesn't know anything about numismatics

This assumption is also at the crux of the matter: I have read GCL threads on other sites (where he has succeeded masterfully in alienating that body as well) which exhibit a surprising understanding of Numismatics the likes of which he has never exhibited here.*

What gives?

Or, more to the point, who cares?

Sigh...

*(Edited to add- he did have an amazingly nice interaction with Sumnom recently for which I give grudging approval, but this also seems to demonstate my point) >>

Thank you laurentyvan and others. Despite what many people here think, I do read books on numismatics. I don't have many books on gold coins and if someone would recommend one that would be great. I don't know what speciality I want to get into yet. I like libertys, saint gaudens, and indian heads, as well as british soveriengs.

I don't consider myself a troll just because I don't listen to everyone someone says. I do make helpful posts here, despite alot of my other posts and what you think they are about. I"ve been collecting coins since I was 6 about 11 years now.

Amazingly nice interaction with sumnom? He is my friend and him and I both learn japanese together.
I must go now I need help with my school project. I will post later.

Edited: I also like spanish gold because it circulated and was used as US coinage until 1857. Ancient coins are interesting too

Forget it 1jester, anything I post just gets ignored or not answered anyway. If I post it will just ruin my reputation more. I will have to find BOOKS on my own.

And comments like this: GCL, you're not simply an IDIOT, you're a JACKASS.

.....get on down the road.....PERMANENTLY.

Why should i even go to this forum? I dont deserve this.

1jester · October 3, 2005 7:26AM

"I don't have many books on gold coins and if someone would recommend one that would be great." --GCL

Don't you even read the responses to your own questions? We've recommended a bunch of books.

And I urged you to read the Liteside thread about gold, and you've refused to do that. What gives with you? So many people have tried so hard to help you and you do us all a great disservice by ignoring our recommendations and treating us like dirt? Don't you have any respect for other people? Please help me understand this.

ROBERTB · October 3, 2005 7:38AM

Can we have a "No confidence vote" for nominated board members, and if they lose we can make formal recommendations to Mr. Hall for expulsion? I have a great candidate in mind.

GoldCoinLover · October 3, 2005 7:39AM

I've already went to the library weeks ago. Not one numismatic book. Just a KAUSE book which I will get.

No books on gold coins. I will have to order them online. I got 2 general books on "Gold"

MacCrimmon · October 3, 2005 7:41AM

We don't even need that; just PM SportsModerator1 and advise him you think this trolls antics have not just worn thin, but worn out......

For the record, I already have.

1jester · October 3, 2005 7:44AM

Even jesters don't appreciate being made a fool of.

GoldCoinLover · October 3, 2005 7:48AM

Everyone, I've decided to leave the forum temporarily. I am NOT appreciated here, obviously. I plan to read many, many books and come back when I will be appreciated and when I came help out more with, hopefully, a stronger numismatic knowledge.

cosmicdebris · October 3, 2005 7:51AM

ROBERTB · October 3, 2005 7:52AM

Spiffy469 · October 3, 2005 7:54AM

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out

Jeff

Preussen · October 3, 2005 8:09AM

<< Everyone, I've decided to leave the forum. >>

- Preussen

AuldFartte · October 3, 2005 8:46AM

<< I have generally tried to steer clear of GCL for all the reasons stated in this thread and I will continue to do so.

Excellent post laurentyvan.

>>

... and a lot more eloquent than I could possibly be

Stork · October 3, 2005 9:09AM

<< I dont deserve this >>

Yes you do.

If you happen to have a copy of the thread where-in you stated your intent to go to Japan (that would be Japan, with a capital J), please re-read it. Maybe it will sink in. Maybe pigs will fly. Maybe I'll be home in time for Halloween.

PS, if this happens to be a double post please excuse, I have a rather pathetically slow and stuttering internet connection these days.

Aethelred · October 3, 2005 9:44AM

I was hoping that when GCL came back he had learned a lession and would be able to interact better than on previous visits, it seems that was not to be. It is my understanding that he has issues in his personal life that he will need to deal with before he is able to achieve any meaningful level of social interaction. It is my sincere hope that he will take whatever steps necessary to come to grips with the issues that seem to haunt him, that he will find peace and healing. Because I am far from an expert on such matters I have not taken the risk of talking to him directly about what his problems are and how he should go about dealing with them, but I do hope he will seek out help and I will pray for a successful outcome. Perhaps, should he chose to join us again at some point in the future, we will all notice his progress and be in a position to congratulate him on it.

Although I can fully understand and identify with the reasons of those who have made the choice to ignore him, I have decided for my own reasons to keep the lines of communication open. I believe there is hope and I can't bring myself to completely write off this obviously confused adolescent who seems to be having such a difficult time finding his way. I hope that my friends here will understand and respect my decision in this matter and not think less of me for it.

ROBERTB · October 3, 2005 9:47AM

I don't want to be crude here, but maybe he is straight up f##king with us. Seriously. Maybe he's so demented he's laughing his a$$ off over our reactions and stresses when dealing with his self created personality?

Aethelred · October 3, 2005 9:48AM

<< I don't want to be crude here, but maybe he is straight up f##king with us. Seriously. Maybe he's so demented he's laughing his a$$ off over our reactions and stresses when dealing with his self created personality?

>>

I have considered that possibility.

wybrit · October 3, 2005 9:50AM

Cosmic, my sentiments exactly.

Bailathacl · October 3, 2005 4:32PM

GCL's "Do You Like Pokemon?" Poll/Thread on the wild wild pages of the Open Forum convinced me that our collective chains are being yanked. I've invoked the ignore user function (well as soon as I find it I will)....

Man · October 3, 2005 5:57PM

Finally thoughts on GCL I decided not to play the PM game with him and told him to go to the chat room if he wanted to speak.

He did and I asked several questions about his "special school" he didn't chat much it was quite normal and boring and he was the first to leave, I think one of the smittys was there smitty79.

The chat room is here for quick chats with people who ask too many questions.

I told him to be himself and ignore bad comments,he didn't listen , looking back at his old threads he never listens even on the four other forums he was pushed out of.

<< GoldCoinLoverさん, you don't need to post the same question in different fora. You will get an answer with just one post, don't worry. I answered your questions in the other posts that you made in other fora, so check them......From the Japan forum. >>

Something is not right with the kid to have 5 forums hate him.

When he comes back, and like a bad rash you know he will, try talking to him live in the chat room if he stills annoy you tell him and he will not PM you anymore. I know he stopped PM-ing me after 3 messages.

Sylvestius · October 4, 2005 2:53AM

He stopped PM-ing me, i didn't actually say anything bad or say anything against him. He just stopped of his own accord. Perhaps my PM's were too long?

Tootawl · October 4, 2005 7:29AM

The word I got is that he was banned. He's gone...outta here. He is whining over at another coin forum.

hyperizer · October 4, 2005 7:38AM

He even PMed me, and I'm mostly a lurker!

Tootawl · October 4, 2005 7:41AM

Me too and I'm mostly a currency guy (among other things).

ROBERTB · October 4, 2005 9:08AM

He's like a horror movie monster. He always comes back and tries to steal the souls of the next batch of folks he meets. I guess he blames MacCrimmon for his untimely demise, oh well, Elvis has left the building. Thank God.

wybrit · October 4, 2005 10:23AM

Glad it's over now. Nothing more to see here lads and lasses! Time to move on.

MacCrimmon · October 4, 2005 10:25AM

<< I guess he blames MacCrimmon for his untimely demise >>

Now, that's rich! Hey, I'm honored.

Udo · October 4, 2005 10:28AM

So many of you received PM's from GCL, he never PMed me, I guess he hated me

Kurt4 · October 4, 2005 10:54AM

Not to beat this in the ground (I think I heard you all just curse my name) but, he sounds alot more intelligent now. I'm done. Sorry. GCL

ROBERTB · October 4, 2005 11:05AM

DIE MONSTER DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wildjag · October 4, 2005 11:19AM

<< So many of you received PM's from GCL, he never PMed me, I guess he hated me

>>

I was also lucky enough to not get any PM's from him

1jester · October 4, 2005 5:45PM

<< Not to beat this in the ground (I think I heard you all just curse my name) but, he sounds alot more intelligent now. I'm done. Sorry. GCL >>

GDJMSP is a mod over there? Interesing, but I won't hold it against him; he's a really great guy.

About GCLTROLL, NO COMMENT.

SYRACUSIAN · October 4, 2005 6:08PM

GDMSP, satootoko, they've all been promoted to moderators over there, I can soon see tbirde too, no wonder they post less and less here.

edited to delete comment added to the wrong thread

Aethelred · October 4, 2005 9:51PM

In light of some things I have learned over the last two days, it looks like Laurent was correct. At any rate I am glad this ordeal is over and we can get back to talking coins!

By the way, why do you all hate me and is a 2005 1/10 Eagle a good investment? How do I know it is real? I ordered it over an hour ago and it is not here yet, I think the person I bought it from is a fraud.

coinpictures · October 4, 2005 9:58PM

<< By the way, why do you all hate me >>

Because.

<< and is a 2005 1/10 Eagle a good investment? >>

No. Stick to French Beanie Babies. That's where the real money's at.

<< How do I know it is real? >>

Dismbowel the beanie baby and... oh, the coin... well, you need to make sure that the metal at the very middle of the coin is real gold, so take metal-cutting shears and cut the coin in half. If the middle of the coin is not gold, you lose! If the middle of the coin is gold, well, you lose anyway.

<< I ordered it over an hour ago and it is not here yet, >>

Dang teleporters must be broke agin. *flips switch* There you go. Should be there aaaaaaaany minute now.

<< I think the person I bought it from is a fraud. >>

Naw, they just hate you. Just like everyone else does.

ajaan · October 4, 2005 10:00PM

I have resisted replying to any thread started by, or pertaining to GCL, but this is too good an opportunity to pass up.

<< By the way, why do you all hate me >>

Ah, volumes could be written on this subject. I can sum it up to one thought: born in Michigan, grew up in Florida, now living in NC. TRAITOR!

In response to GCL

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