My lesson on raw coins shared... + pics

skerke

Some time ago I posted some grades from PCGS, a bit disappointed as 4/6 came back as cleaned or altered or questionable color. I approached the dealer he offerd 50% of what I paid for them. I still think they are nice looking coins - but am sahring my observations with the less than astute (people like me)...Good type coins, just not my type. After looking at the coins (unless they were swapped at PCGS - (which is always a possibility for the paranoid) I examined them even more carefully. now not thatI haven't spent enough already on my little coin lesson - I went out an purchased a new macro lens for my canon digi cam. (weak excuse, as I've been wanting one for some time -skerkonimicly it makes sense. Ayhow below is a number of pics for your enjoyment.

In no particular order - the California Diamond Jubillee Which I would have sworn would be ms 64 with a shot at 65. The fine scratches are not visibly obvious, but under a 10x loupe and as you may see rom the pucs, there are some, I also noticed some slight spotting, telling me the coin a t aminumum had been dipped. I di notice a bit of a scratch on the bears back which may have taken it out fo the runnig for anythig greater than 65.

Now the half dime I should have thought it was bit shiney for a 170 year old coin..It has under magnification obvious scratches and swirls, I must have just like the coin, obviously cleaned by the definitions I know - but still a good looking coin, the die from 1 to 7 ' o clock adds a nice touch.

The barber came back as altered surfaces, for the life of me, I can't see waht was 'altered' wehn I asked I got the boiler plate responce, cut nd pasted fro nte website. Experts (would be and actual) comments are welcome - no lesson learned on this coin.

For those of you that remember the original thread there was atwo cent piece as well, I've resubmitted it. I could not find a single flaw on it. The cal jubille looks good but under a 10x loupe there is soe light scratches which may have indicated a previous bath...
So my lesson is take more time, make sure I use a proper loupe and get lighting etc so I can clearly see the detils of the fields. not many 170 year old coins will look s they just came from the mint. Forget about getting anything other than grade from PCGS there customer service is atrocious! I played email tag with a guy for weeks, now he writes ad asks me to call for my options. I guess that's moderatley acceptable - unless he tells m the same thing from the website. I mean getting a coin back graded questionable color --I paid to have 3 experts examine it, there sole job is to verify,validate and grade coins, they are experts. What was questionable, take your time boys, I paid for it, is it or is it not the right color! I paid you to answer the question!!!


Anyhow for what they are worth here ae the pics...

California Diamond Jubilee










the 1834 Half Dime






the 1913 Barber Quarter

Myqqy

All of these coins look very cleaned to me, and are pretty easy to spot with a little experience- perhaps you need to find someone who can help you identify cleanings, and what "original"™ coins look like......

coinbuf

The Barber is not as obvious but the others are easy to spot. But most of us have a coin or two like these hiding in our closets. Just don't repeat these mistakes and you'll be ahead of the game.

Chris

MikeInFL

The first two look obvious, but the 1913 barber looks good to me.

What is it about the third coin that makes you nervous?

skerke

Learning the hard way - My original thought was stck to certified, I'm going back to my oriignal thought. My next coin will be aFugio cent, can't fford any mistake there.

skerke

The Barber came bac from PCGS as altered surfaces...mystery to me.

coinbuf

Some times if a grader finds that a group he's grading has a lot of cleaned or questionable coins I think his mindset changes and he'll be more likely to BB even a good coin. If you submit that Barber with some solid no question gradable coins it might go thru OK. This is just my feeling baised upon my limited knowledge of human nature.

Chris

CarlWohlforth

The hairlines in the right field of the CA look like cleaning to me. This looks like more than a dip. The half dime has the neat die crack. Too bad it is so harshly cleaned! It is hard for me to agree that it is still a good looking coin as it doesn't look natural, but the die crack does help a lot.

The Barber looks funny to me. You can see very deep horizontal lines in the shield on the reverse but the veritcal lines are almost non existent. On the obverse LIBERTY is clearly visible but the hair above the forehead looks flat. There is a big hit on Liberty's cheek, where did the metal go? I am not an expert at identifying tooling but I can imagine some details were punched up or ground down with a tool.

skerke

Thanks, that's excellent insight..good catch on Liberty's cheek. I have avery large photo (file size) of the image and am revuewing multiple portions of it now..

TomB

The California Jubilee did not get bagged for a possible dip as that would not have left the myriad of hairlines throughout the fields that are clearly visible in your second obverse image. That coin was improperly (abrasively) cleaned and the bright, highly reflective scratch marks are easy to see in the open fields. The half-dime, I'm sorry to say, is just an atrocious coin as it does not look original at all. Again, the second obverse image shows hairlines throughout the obverse. The Barber quarter does not look nearly as bad as the others, but it may look like a problem coin where someone smoothed out the obverse cheek area and perhaps wiped it. The reverse looks fine in this image.

You don't have to buy all slabbed coins if you know what to look for. In fact, if you simply buy slabbed coins but never learn what a coin should look like then you will buy many altered coins as the TPGs have slabbed quite a few less than original coins. Also, if you plan on buying only slabbed coins then it isn't very wise to limit it to just PCGS as they are really no better than ANACS or NGC for this type of thing.

skerke

Right now I buy ngc and pcgs. I will sell the coins, and move on. I have done some more reading and well, researching scouring the forum usein search and reading old threads. Not a huge deal, If they sell for 1/2 what I paid I'll chalk it up to lesson learned and be much, much more careful next time.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>Right now I buy ngc and pcgs. I will sell the coins, and move on. I have done some more reading and well, researching scouring the forum usein search and reading old threads. Not a huge deal, If they sell for 1/2 what I paid I'll chalk it up to lesson learned and be much, much more careful next time. >>



ANACS are good too.

DaveG

skerke,

You may want to get a copy of PCGS' Grading Guide. I'd recommend the first edition rather than the second, since it's larger (8 1/2 x 11). It has very good pictures and has a lot of info on what to look for as well as what PCGS looks for in terms of altered surfaces, etc.

You may also want to take the ANA's grading course. They offer it at Colorado Springs and at some regional coin shows and they have an correspondance course. Or you may want to look for and join a local coin club.

I've learned far more about grading from reading books and having an expert show me how to do it and what to look for than I ever could have on my own.