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Good deal or not? UPDATED Picture of coin
GoldCoinLover
Posts: 1,244
Someone is offering me this coin for 90 dollars. The melt value is only abuot 23 bucks though and it is priced reasonably highe than that. heres the description:
SPAIN
Gold half-escudo, 1745-AJ, VG10. KM361.1, .917 gold, .0498 oz. Philip V. Crowned "M" mintmark (Madrid). 1/16 of a "doubloon". Nice little historical gold coin. Past provenance indicated the coin was salvaged from a shipwreck, though this is not particularly noticeable, nor was the name of the wreck given. (WCS-001V) $90.00
Is it worth it?
thank you so much
Here's the coin. It's from a very reputable dealer. Does it look VG to you?
SPAIN
Gold half-escudo, 1745-AJ, VG10. KM361.1, .917 gold, .0498 oz. Philip V. Crowned "M" mintmark (Madrid). 1/16 of a "doubloon". Nice little historical gold coin. Past provenance indicated the coin was salvaged from a shipwreck, though this is not particularly noticeable, nor was the name of the wreck given. (WCS-001V) $90.00
Is it worth it?
thank you so much
Here's the coin. It's from a very reputable dealer. Does it look VG to you?
0
Comments
When you start getting into buying older gold coins (ie.1700's) you need to forget about melt value !! From my reading your posts over the last few week or weeks, you're way too hung up on this issue. The more collectable the gold coin the higher the melt value to actual value price ratio goes up. So I would suggest you accept that as it is and just collect the gold coins you want and can afford !!!
Also, the K&M World Gold Coins Ed.5 (which I suggest you buy) list the value of that coin at VF= $140 & XF= $200
<< <i>G'Lover,
When you start getting into buying older gold coins (ie.1700's) you need to forget about melt value !! From my reading your posts over the last few week or weeks, you're way too hung up on this issue. The more collectable the gold coin the higher the melt value to actual value price ratio goes up. So I would suggest you accept that as it is and just collect the gold coins you want and can afford !!!
Also, the K&M World Gold Coins Ed.5 (which I suggest you buy) list the value of that coin at VF= $140 & XF= $200 >>
thank you. I will not worry about the melt value
Also I always go for premium coin buys (the best I can afford even if it means saving for a while) and not neccessarily concerned about the number of coins I own.
Quality is appreciated long after you forget about the price you paid!!!
And one other word of advice....... drop the "value total" off of your sig line, !!!!
<< <i>G'lover,
Also I always go for premium coin buys (the best I can afford even if it means saving for a while) and not neccessarily concerned about the number of coins I own.
Quality is appreciated long after you forget about the price you paid!!!
And one other word of advice....... drop the "value total" off of your sig line, !!!!
I will. The seller is a dealer by the way. He is a member of this forum. I don't understand why he would sell it for only 90 dollars if its worth 140?
The K&M is just a price guide based on some historical price data that they have gathered over the years (its all explained in the front of the book); coin prices fluctuate throughout the year and years. I've bought coins under the K&M prices but I've also paid much more. Everyone (dealers included) has placed his own value on a given coin, what you think is a good deal , I may not !! Remember the dealer bought the coin from someone ( who may not have placed much value on it or needed to unload it quick) and he is just marking it up his standard fee. In most cases they cannot afford to sit on coins, they make money by moving coins, kinda like a bank lending money.
and not in a collector condition and most likely does not have good eye appeal and little to no demand
sea salvaged and in bg condition does nmot sound like a good coin to me at all and is a hard coin for resale value pass
<< <i>While $90 for this coin is not unheard of, I wouldn't pay that much. I've seen many examples in VG sell for $60 or less. >>
Thakn you, and thanks michael.
To prove my point, i used to have a fairly big gold coin (about the size of a Morgan Dollar) that was struck in 1422, i dunno how much the gold melt value of the coin was but the numismatic value was £1000. The collector value was way, way, way, above the value of the actual gold contained therein.
The value of the gold cointained in coins really does not matter (unless it's a bullion issue). To put it into an analogy. Take designer clothes, probably contain about $2 in value of material, produced in say Taiwan for about $1 a piece. Total value $3, retail value and value customer is willing to pay $75.
They are worth something beyond their intrinsic value because people are willing to pay for them, i.e demand. It's best to think of gold coins like designer clothes.
what does everyone think about the grade?
edit: I think this particular used-coin dealer has a tendency to undergrade coins.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
1jester is impersonating hetman!!!
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>Methinks the seller is an extremely reputable dealer...
edit: I think this particular used-coin dealer has a tendency to undergrade coins. >>
Yes..I know you can tell who he is by the picture style
Undergrade coins? You think so? What do you think the grade is though, right on?
<< <i>
<< <i>Methinks the seller is an extremely reputable dealer...
edit: I think this particular used-coin dealer has a tendency to undergrade coins. >>
Yes..I know you can tell who he is by the picture style
Undergrade coins? You think so? What do you think the grade is though, right on? >>
Well, sure. He definitely undergrades coins that aren't his. Most used-coin dealers do that.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Methinks the seller is an extremely reputable dealer...
edit: I think this particular used-coin dealer has a tendency to undergrade coins. >>
Yes..I know you can tell who he is by the picture style
Undergrade coins? You think so? What do you think the grade is though, right on? >>
Well, sure. He definitely undergrades coins that aren't his. Most used-coin dealers do that.
It's a bit worn, but I like it. I don't see the patina.
Problem is I don't have any money for it. Just spent my last 90 bucks on a gold angel. He said he MIGHT do trades, but he'd want to make a buck off of it. LOL
Seriously, though- I told GCL that the coin is priced over catalog, but that is because I myself had to pay more than catalog to get it.
I had a hard time grading this one since most of the design elements are just basic lines- going by Ferdinand's lack of hair detail, I was reluctant to call it Fine, though it could be, I guess. I am not familiar enough with the striking characteristics of these to know what is wear and what is weak strike. (I've had escudos and half-escudos in the past but they were all later dates, mostly Charles III. This is the first earlier one I've had).
GCL- "patina" refers to the stuff in the lettering- it's sort of like toning, but it also means plain old "dirt". "Good" dirt, in this case, 'cause it means originality to some. As previously mentioned, I was told by the last owner of the coin that it had been shipwreck salvaged, but I cannot really see any signs of that. Shipwreck salvage can be a plus or a minus, or both- it often means the coin may have some salt water corrosion (though none seems visible here), but on the other hand shipwreck coins are interesting if they can be associated with a particular wreck. I was given no information on the shipwreck this coin came from, if in fact it came from one at all. It might or might not have been sea-salvaged.
<< <i>So my photo style gives me away, eh?
Seriously, though- I told GCL that the coin is priced over catalog, but that is because I myself had to pay more than catalog to get it.
I had a hard time grading this one since most of the design elements are just basic lines- going by Ferdinand's lack of hair detail, I was reluctant to call it Fine, though it could be, I guess. I am not familiar enough with the striking characteristics of these to know what is wear and what is weak strike. (I've had escudos and half-escudos in the past but they were all later dates, mostly Charles III. This is the first earlier one I've had).
GCL- "patina" refers to the stuff in the lettering- it's sort of like toning, but it also means plain old "dirt". "Good" dirt, in this case, 'cause it means originality to some. As previously mentioned, I was told by the last owner of the coin that it had been shipwreck salvaged, but I cannot really see any signs of that. Shipwreck salvage can be a plus or a minus, or both- it often means the coin may have some salt water corrosion (though none seems visible here), but on the other hand shipwreck coins are interesting if they can be associated with a particular wreck. I was given no information on the shipwreck this coin came from, if in fact it came from one at all. It might or might not have been sea-salvaged. >>
What's the AJ after the date mean?
The guy's name would probably be listed in Krause, but I don't have my Krause with me. Anyone? Who was the mintmaster with the AJ initials in 1745?
(Antonio J-something, maybe...)
<< <i>The A.J. would be the mintmaster's initials.
The guy's name would probably be listed in Krause, but I don't have my Krause with me. Anyone? Who was the mintmaster with the AJ initials in 1745?
(Antonio J-something, maybe...) >>
Would you believe, Antonio Janderas?
Missed it by this much!
You gotta be kiddin'!
Really?
<< <i>Antonio Janderas?
You gotta be kiddin'!
Really? >>
No, not really! Couldn't help myself.