Russian 1899 10 rubles -- variety? fake?

jonathanb

I bought this earlier this week as part of a lot of 50 tokens for $50. I thought I had a steal -- hey, hard to beat a quarter-ounce of gold for $50, right? But now I'm not so sure...

It sort of matches the pictures in my (very old) KM, but there are too many differences. On the obverse, the jawline on this coin is basically horizontal; in KM it points downwards significantly. On the reverse, the top of the crown is much further from the edge of this coin than it is in KM. There are lots of other differences as well. Yet another oddity: the obverse and reverse dies are aligned with a 90 degree twist, instead of the usual 0 or 180 degree alignment.

I surfed the web for a bit, and every other one I found matched the pic in KM. There is one example here

So this is what? A variety? A counterfeit? Anyone know Russian gold to help out a poor collector of American coins?


jonathan

coinpictures

What does it weigh? Should weigh 8.6026 grams according to Krause...

jonathanb

I don't have an accurate scale. I suppose it's about time I got one, but that won't help right this second. I fudged it with a simple balance, though, and I seems to weigh about the same as two zinc cents. That puts it at about 5 grams -- way too light. OK, so it's not real. Darn.

I still wonder what it is...

gxseries

MY GOD, if you are going to sell that, sell that to me.

That's one of those interesting counterfeits made by some black market and they failed pretty hard on that.

jonathanb

OK, I found it. From an old eBay listing:

Most counterfeit coins are worthless and I would not recommend anyone to buy them. They are made at modern times to robe collectors. However, there are some that has a lot of history behind them and sometimes not only allowed to someone's collection but a must have for serious collector. Of course with full understanding that it is a counterfeit coin. Now back to our coin. Those of you who read the book of Guilarovskiy "Moscow and Moscow's people" may be remember that back in late 19-th early 20-th century there was "Hitrov Rinok" market in Moscow where all sorts of stolen things were sold and bought, where criminals and thieves of all kinds used to live and prosper. The coin I offer most likely was made there between 1899-1910 so one thief could pay to another one for stolen goods with fake money. That market was liquidated by Bolsheviks in 1930's. The coin has proper lettering on the edge and is historical and important coin. Do not lose your chance to add it to your collection.

Neat.

OK, gxseries, now that I've learned something, I'll let it go. Make me an offer and send me your shipping address in PM.


jonathan

Makarovii

For what its worth, here's a NGC MS66 1902 5 Roubles to compare.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>I bought this earlier this week as part of a lot of 50 tokens for $50. I thought I had a steal -- hey, hard to beat a quarter-ounce of gold for $50, right? But now I'm not so sure...

It sort of matches the pictures in my (very old) KM, but there are too many differences. On the obverse, the jawline on this coin is basically horizontal; in KM it points downwards significantly. On the reverse, the top of the crown is much further from the edge of this coin than it is in KM. There are lots of other differences as well. Yet another oddity: the obverse and reverse dies are aligned with a 90 degree twist, instead of the usual 0 or 180 degree alignment.

I surfed the web for a bit, and every other one I found matched the pic in KM. There is one example here

So this is what? A variety? A counterfeit? Anyone know Russian gold to help out a poor collector of American coins?


jonathan >>



Wow thanks for sharing that! I've never seen a fake gold coin. It surely looks like its made out of gold though

jonathanb

<< <i>It surely looks like its made out of gold though >>



I imagine it's gold-plated, but I'm not going to scratch it to confirm.

jonathan