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AL Cy Young

Cliff Lee - not exactly sure what his record is but it is something like 18-3. He should be a strong candidate especially if the Indians win the divsion.
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Comments

  • Mariano Rivera, hands down!!!!

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  • Fireman of the Year maybe, but relievers only get it when none of the starters in the league are having a great year. Cliff Lee is having a great year. Unlike most of the overpaid Yankee starting rotation. Jaret Wright was so close to being out of baseball before the Braves gave him a shot. Leo Mazzone has taken a lot of pitchers off the scrap heap and made them good major league pitchers again. Wright became one of the top Braves starters and first chance he gets, bolts for the money.

    Major league pitchers must love the Yankees, have one good year and they will set you for life. So what if you never equal that one good year again.
    Collecting vintage material, currently working on 1962 topps football set.
  • Cliff Lee is 18-4 with a 3.90 ERA
    Kevin Millwood is 8-11 with a 2.97 ERA

    Cliff Lee has been fortunate that the Indians have scored runs for him this year. ERA is more important than wins in telling how good a pitcher is. Hopefully sportswriters when they vote will realize this. How about Aaron Small at 9-0?

    Mariano is 7-4 with a 1.32 ERA and he has 41 saves.


  • << <i>Cliff Lee is 18-4 with a 3.90 ERA
    Kevin Millwood is 8-11 with a 2.97 ERA

    Cliff Lee has been fortunate that the Indians have scored runs for him this year. ERA is more important than wins in telling how good a pitcher is. Hopefully sportswriters when they vote will realize this. How about Aaron Small at 9-0?

    Mariano is 7-4 with a 1.32 ERA and he has 41 saves. >>



    You are right ERA is important, but a starter with a losing record will never win a Cy Young. I think you have to pitch for a full season also to even be considered.
    Collecting vintage material, currently working on 1962 topps football set.

  • <<a starter with a losing record will never win a Cy Young. I think you have to pitch for a full season also to even be considered.>>

    I agree.

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  • Writers are stupid, why put so much stock into what they say anyway?

    Don't look now but the best pitcher in the league is none other than Johan Santana again!

    IP 217.2, ERA 2.98, K's 223, BB 41, H 171

    Looking at Johan's numbers he is far and away the best pitcher in the A.L. If you are interested in novel stats like single season W-L record, then he is 14-7.

    If the writers determine the Cy Young based on where the team finishes, then it trivializes the award, plain and simple. Heck, I already went through that exercise with the MVP. It is even a worse crime if you assign the "winning team" standard to the Cy Young. If you are giong to give an award to an individual while basing it on results that are out of control of the individual player, then it is a stupid method. Yet that is what W/L record does, and that is what your team's Won/Loss record does.

    They have awards for for a team finishing in first place! One, the award is first place and the playoffs. Two, a little extra money to each player as a reward. SO those guys get the awards already, so everybody please stop saying an MVP or Cy Young has to come from a winning team as that is stupid and makes those awards trivial. Give the award to the best pitcher that season, and base it on what that pitcher did, and not what his teammates did. Same for MVP.

    P.S. Rivera is also a very good candidate, and more worthy than Lee for sure. If you factor in leverage innings for a closer, then he could give Johan a race.
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    Nobody mentioned Bartolo Colon...20-7 with a 3.34 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, and almost 4x as many K's as walks...Sounds good to me...Cliff Lee shouldn't win it, he's faced the Royals about six times this year...Rivera second, Santana third


  • << <i>Nobody mentioned Bartolo Colon...20-7 with a 3.34 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, and almost 4x as many K's as walks...Sounds good to me...Cliff Lee shouldn't win it, he's faced the Royals about six times this year...Rivera second, Santana third >>



    Cliff Lee shouldn't win because he has faced the Royals six times. I'm sure the Indians planned that out at the begining of the year so he could get more wins. Come on, that is a very lame argument.
    Collecting vintage material, currently working on 1962 topps football set.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Nobody mentioned Bartolo Colon...20-7 with a 3.34 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, and almost 4x as many K's as walks...Sounds good to me...Cliff Lee shouldn't win it, he's faced the Royals about six times this year...Rivera second, Santana third >>



    Cliff Lee shouldn't win because he has faced the Royals six times. I'm sure the Indians planned that out at the begining of the year so he could get more wins. Come on, that is a very lame argument. >>



    True.

    If someone is going to use that argument, then all Boston and Yankee pitchers should be excluded as well because they get to play the Drays so much.
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    Okay, please, don't compare the D-Rays offense (not too bad) to the Royals (a bunch of AAA players). Lee won't even be in the Top 3...
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    The D-Rays are hitting .275 as a team (third in ALL of baseball, behind Boston and the Yankees), and KC is hitting .263 (Not to mention, Lee has to face quality offenses like Detroit, Minnesota, and the White Sox consistently, as well)
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    I *wasn't* comparing them.

    I was simply stating that if you are going to factor in the Royals as a reason he should lose votes, then you'd have to do the same with those facing Tampa Bay.

    If you are going to factor in a team's opponents, you have to do it across the board. Royals batting .263 and D'rays batting .275? That's not much of a difference.

    Also, of the 3 teams you mentioned (Chicago Sox, Detroit, Minn), 2 of them have team batting averages lower than the Royals.

  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I *wasn't* comparing them.

    I was simply stating that if you are going to factor in the Royals as a reason he should lose votes, then you'd have to do the same with those facing Tampa Bay.

    If you are going to factor in a team's opponents, you have to do it across the board. Royals batting .263 and D'rays batting .275? That's not much of a difference.

    Also, of the 3 teams you mentioned (Chicago Sox, Detroit, Minn), 2 of them have team batting averages lower than the Royals. >>



    This many games into the year, that's a huge difference. (.275 compared to .263). Another factor against Lee, you just mentioned those 3 teams in parentheses, they all reside in Lee's AL Central. You may or may not be for Lee, but he doesn't stand a chance in the Cy Young...
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    No, I wasn't saying one way or the other for him. Simply stated the numbers.

    It's my opinion that the cy young should never go to a reliever, unless there are no worthy starters. This year in the AL, there are plenty of starters who are more worthy than Rivera. A reliever may have a great ERA, but how many innings is he contributing to his team? I think that you can't solely look at ERA to determine a pitcher's worth to the team.

    Example, let's say you have a starter who goes 7 or 8 innings in every start, saving his bullpen from work for the days when the #3, 4 and 5 starters go. Isn't that worth having a bit higher ERA? ERA is important, yes, but in the grand scheme of things, if I have a guy who will go out every 5 days and goes long into games to save my bullpen, that's worth a marginally worse ERA.

    Bartolo Colon, as the leagues (likely) only 20 game winner, #6 in innings, #4 in ERA, #8 in K's, and nearly 4 K's for every walk, all while leading his team to the AL west title? That's who I'd choose.

    Johan Santana would be #2, and he'd win if Minnesota were more competitive.

    Cliff Lee would be third.

  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    Good points, I just have a funny feeling Rivera will get a lot of votes this year based on how bad he started the year and rebounded. That being said, his season this year hasn't been as dominating as Gagne (last year?) or some of the Eckersley years (when he won it-I think he won both the MVP and Cy Young). Actually, in '84, Willie Hernandez (a closer) won the MVP, not sure about Cy Young. There REALLY must not have been too many worthy contenders that year...
  • <<on how bad he (Mariano) started the year>>

    I think he had 2 poor games against Boston the first 2 times he faced them. That was it as far as starting the year poorly. It shouldn't factor in the decision at all. Since then he has handled the Red Sox easily.
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    I'm a Yankees fan, but I don't think he should win the Cy Young this year. I don't even think it's been Mariano's best year...
  • Bartolo Colon wins it.

    He seems to be getting fatter all the time though. I guess he throws his weight behind those screaming fastballs!!
  • <<I don't even think it's been Mariano's best year... >>

    Obviously, Saves are what a Relief Pitcher is measured on but Saves are a product of how many games a team wins and how many of those wins were a Close situation. With the said, the most important Statistic for a pitcher is ERA. All of Mariano's seasons have been dominating and great, making him the one of the Best Relief Pitchers of all time, if not the best. This year so far he has the lowest ERA (1.32) of his career. His next lowest ERA was in 2003 when it was 1.66.

    Mariano Rivera's Lifetime Statistics to date

    Old Mo does not seem to be slowing down one bit. He is 35 years old. He currently has 377 Saves and will be the first Relief Pitcher to have 500 Saves. He seems to be ageless and 600 Saves is not outside the realm of possibility.

  • Earlier in the season ARod had 3 Home Runs off of Bartolo Colon in one game!!!!
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