Deleted - and now back. How the designations for some series, like full head, steps, bands etc. got

TahoeDale

I happened to be looking at the PCGS price guide for a 1952 Jefferson nickel, and noticed the large (huge) difference for price in full steps. Then I looked at pricing in the standing quarters.

I do not collect any series where the full strike catagory is present, but I am curious how it all got started. And if it will follow into any other series where special pricing might be appropriate - like lib nickels and the left corn ear.

I do not believe( like Sunnywood) it is necessary. But I am amazed that there can be multiples of 50 or 100 for the full strike in some dates and series. It should be merely a part of the overall grade, and pricing should not ever be based IN LARGE PART on such determination.

The responses so far seem to be in line with the above. And the roosie image is a perfect example--a real wow coin.

But I still am curious how it happened. Some one name some names or circumstances of the history of:

Standing Liberty quarters - J Cline?
Mercury dimes
Jefferson nickels
Franklin halves

Reason for the "Deleted" message - I went to play a round of golf, and didn't want my concentration disturbed for 5 hours. I couldn't stand not knowing what you guys thought, and not be here to see. But you did it anyway.

Fairlaneman

Why the Delete ? Some opinions and answers would have been nice to see on this....

ellewood

Maybe someone thought that asking this sort of question would spark people trying to get PCGS to designate more things on coins like the full step, full bands, etc. That's my guess. That is probably the last thing PCGS wants right now...is people bugging them about more designations.

TahoeDale...I am not implying that you were bugging PCGS

sonofagunk

That's a shame. I have a full speared bison nickel that I was hoping would get the designation that it deserves.

cladking

It was a good topic. I might start it myself on the coin forum one of these days.

mercurynut

Gee I miss all the good stuff!

Sunnywood

I don't know what TahoeDale's original post was about ... but judging from the other posts, it seems to have been related to additional designations on certain series. Thus, I would like to take this opportunity to offer the following mini-rant:

I hate the stupid designations. They are all strike designations, and are based on arbitrary criteria. Strike used to be part of the grade. Either it should still be part of the grade, or there should be ONE "Full Strike" designation for all series. Things like "Full Head" are stupid. Why not "Full Shield Rivets" ?? It is another way to feed resubmissions, Registry hysteria, and random price jumps.

Sunnywood

RegistryNut

RYK

Sunnywood, I saw the OP and was looking forward toward an interesting discussion. You are correct: this thread was to discuss the fullstrike designations.

I hate the stupid designations. They are all strike designations, and are based on arbitrary criteria. Strike used to be part of the grade. Either it should still be part of the grade, or there should be ONE "Full Strike" designation for all series. Things like "Full Head" are stupid. Why not "Full Shield Rivets" ?? It is another way to feed resubmissions, Registry hysteria, and random price jumps.

Why designate one portion of the coin such that the strike of this portion is more important than everything else? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Sunnywood

I prefer a grading system in which strike, luster, technical condition and eye appeal are all considered in determining the grade. Then you wouldn't need the silly designations. A poorly struck coin with perfect surfaces, stellar luster, and great eye appeal might still score a good grade.

If you put all the emphasis on technical grade, you could have a poorly struck coin with flat luster that is ugly as a dog, and it would still be MS70 (although without the cherished "FS" designation LOL).

Of course, if you read my other thread (in U.S. Coins) about Dr. William H. Sheldon, you will think twice about wanting to use his 70-point scale.

Sunnywood

cladking

Actually the original thread seemed to be getting more into how the designations got
started. I remember full steps on nickels way back in the '60's and full bands on mercs
in the '70's. While these might tend to discourage some from looking at the overall coin,
they probably got their starts more because these tended to be the last thing to strike
up and when scanning large numbers of coins one could just look at the head on a stand-
ing liberty or the left lower star on a Morgan to see if the coin warranted a closer look.

Over the years these features have picked up more attention than they otherwise deserve.

RYK

Over the years these features have picked up more attention than they otherwise deserve.

No offense to Frankie collectors, but if a major emphasis of my collecting effort was to try to figure out whether the bells lines were fully strike or not, I would be in another hobby in no time. (I am sure many collectors feel the same about my collecting habits and interests.)

cointime

I might have got a chance to talk about my new coin just graded with PCGS photo service

Ken

Very Pretty Roosie

Fairlaneman

A few years back I saw a 25D Merc that had Full Bands on the reverse. The obverse was only struck up about 75%. Right then and there it was pretty much decided that the huge premium paid for Full Bands was pretty much hog wash and not justified in most instances. A few are justified.

I like the idea of just putting Full Strike or something close to that on a slab. Of course, as Sunnywood said, if coins were graded like they are suppose to be the numerical grade would take care of pricing structure instead of a designation that infers that the coin is fully struck.

I think a collector by the name of Kritzman is pretty much responsible for the Full Band nomenclature that has evolved with Merc Dimes. I could be wrong on this and if so one of the sharp Merc Guys will correct this statement.

Thats my 10 cents worth.

Cheers.

Ken

Sunnywood

TahoeDale, I fear it is in large part a clever marketing ploy and nothing more. A way to turn common coins into high-priced "rarities" and to create a market for specialist dealers - always a lucrative game, and all the moreso with the competitive Registry program. One can only imagine how, after several such designations were introduced, those in the know could "stock up" on qualifying coins before the next one was rolled out ... Of course, one could make the same complaint about condition rarities generally ... for example, a common date coin such as an 1881-S Morgan dollar, in a high grade such as PCGS MS68 or MS69 ... but grade generally (including strike) is a necessary concept in valuing coins, while a disproportionate focus on one micro-characteristic like "Full Steps" is unjustifiable.

Sunnywood

cladking

One of these days there will probably be full claws for Washingtons. I don't think this
is nearly so much a marketing ploy as it is just the collector habit of looking at the left
claws first when seeking full strikes. While all the coins with fully struck claws aren't
full strikes, there are very few full or really good strikes without this feature.

With any art work or object there are places that one's eye is first drawn. Insiders look
at the bell lines on Franklins and the wheat ears on circulated Lincolns.

Look at the lack of such designations on the old coins. Perhaps this is because there
were too few people scanning quantities of these for well struck specimens. Perhaps
not, but I can't help but think this is the basis for the designations.

Collectors really shouldn't read too much into having or not having the designated area
fully struck since many that are won't otherwise be well struck and others can be. It
still seems that the coins with the designations are worthy of some premium just because
it is always a feature not often seen.

larrynj

a crazy old coot (now deceased) by the name of adolf weiss was largely responsible for creating interest in the full step jeff nickel series. he began his campaign in 1977 with a club called pak. he had some great quality coins sold via mail bid to members about 3 or 4 times per year. this club lasted until about 1985, and was revived by rich and sue sisti of ramapaugh trading company for a few more years as interest waned. bernie nagengast was also on the hunt for fs jeff's at the same time, but adolf kind of steamrolled himself and his club into prominence at the time.

pak's monthly newsletters were jam-packed with amazingly accurate info that is still very relevent today. i started a coillection in 1977, thinking this should take care of my yet-to-be-born children's college education. didn't happen in time, but, it seems like the timing is right for my retirement.

anyone who would like to hear more about those times, feel free to ask or pm me

Sunnywood

FULL CLAWS !!!!! Now THAT is funny !!!! There are quite a few series that could have an "FC" designation. But it would just be more of the same question ... if you're going to have a SEPARATE designation for strike, why not also have one for luster, and one for eye appeal? Then the numerical grade (e.g. MS65) would ONLY describe the technical condition of the surfaces.

Of course, I don't think any of us want that.

Sunnywood

cladking

<< <i>FULL CLAWS !!!!! Now THAT is funny !!!! There are quite a few series that could have an "FC" designation. But it would just be more of the same question ... if you're going to have a SEPARATE designation for strike, why not also have one for luster, and one for eye appeal? Then the numerical grade (e.g. MS65) would ONLY describe the technical condition of the surfaces.

Of course, I don't think any of us want that.

Sunnywood >>



Astrorat points out in another thread that the sole purpose of grading is for communication. Ironically
the only thing the current system communicates is the value of a coin.

To fully describe a coin you really need three grades for strike; one for die condition, one for strike, and
one for alignment. And yes, to fully describe a coin you'd also need grades for marks, luster, and the com-
ponents of eye appeal.

Of course, most collectors just want someone to stick a pricetag on their coins, and then they complain
when some coins won't bring full pricetag and others will bring much more than pricetag.

leothelyon

but grade generally (including strike) is a necessary concept in valuing coins, while a disproportionate focus on one micro-characteristic like "Full Steps" is unjustifiable. Sunnywood

The following can be found in PCGS's Lingo;

Full Bands.. Term applied to Mercury (Winged Liberty Head) dimes when the central band is fully separated (FB). There can be no disturbance of the separation. Also applicable to Roosevelt dimes that display full separation in both the upper and lower pair of crossbands on the torch.

Full Bell Lines ..Term applied to Franklin half dollars when the lower sets of bell lines are complete (FBL). Very slight disturbance of several lines is acceptable.

Full Head ..Term applied to Standing Liberty quarters when the helmet of the head has full detail (FH). Both Type 1 and 2 coins are so designated but the criteria is different for both.

Full Steps ...Term applied to a Jefferson five-cent example when at least 5 steps of Monticello are present.

Full strike ....A numismatic item that displays the full detail intended by the designer. Weak striking pressure, worn dies or improper planchets can sometimes prevent all the details from appearing, even on uncirculated specimens.

See anything wrong with all these definitions to the above designations?

None of them say that the coin must have a full strike to receive it's designation! I also tried locating an article on FS Jeffs in the PCGS Library with no way to search it other than reading through 960 titles and I could only find something on Full bands for Roosevelt dimes which said the coin would need to be fully struck to receive the Full Band designation. So I'm assuming this is also true for Full Step Jeffersons but yet we have seen noodles of understruck Jeffersons receiving the FS designation in PCGS holders!

Here's what I did find;
Jefferson nickels are, of course, a specialty unto themselves, and I suppose it is amazing that in today's era of great technology that the Mint often has difficulty producing nickels which are sharply struck. This does lend interest to the series, for the specialist can spend months or even years trying to track down a "full steps" specimen of an otherwise common date. It wouldn't be as much fun if one could simply write out a check and acquire in one fell swoop a complete set of Jefferson nickels, superbly struck, and in high grade.
Q. David Bowers

Leo

flykite

As a FBL enthusiast, my feeling is all these designations are, perhaps, a way of "quantifying" strike
as a superior characteristic, aside from the other attributes that make up grading.

That being said, this is a fatal error! IMHO, strike is the FIRST criteria by which a coin should be judged
when it comes to all this mint-state hair-splitting.

I can't tell you how many "S" mint coins I have handled that grade 65 or better that by my definition don't
qualify. We all get caught up in "comparative grading" i.e. "for a 54-S, this is etc..."

How many Walkers are out there in 67 holders, with no hand?? Mercs...Standing Libs...

Just because a coin is mark-free (which is good) has great color (don't get me started concerning the
prejudice against brilliant!) doesn't mean it should get a lofty grade if it's struck flat as a pancake!

Ed

roadrunner

Harold Kritzman may have been the first or one of the first to promote the FSB craze for Mercs. He's a dealer however and ran a shop in Newington, CT in the 1970's. I believe he is still in that area. The criteria for FSB was far tougher than it is today. Since there was no grading service to give away the farm back then not a whole lot of nice FSB coins emerged, esp. on the rarer dates. It really took slab-mania and PCGS/NGC to start drawing those coins from hiding. I'm sure Kritzman saw the opportunity to make $$ on something that he could often buy for little premium. That's why many start these kind of things.

I talked with Ron Iskowitz (formerly of Renrob in the 70's, 80's and
90's) at a large show about 2-3 years ago and he said he played a strong role in the DCAM phase of the proof market. He saw the opportunity and took advantage of it. Most of these FULL XXX games started as a way to score easy money. I find it all sort of boring too since 90% of the coins don't merit a full strike rating.
Why not full claws on Barber quarters and halves? Eventually, the "full strike" criteria will show up on many or most US coins.
Or maybe it will be "well struck" since so many coins are technically 95% but really NOT perfectly struck, 19th century proofs included.
Being 95% or better struck on all areas of the coin (feathers, head, stars, legend, denticles, figures, date, shields, etc.) should merit such a designation.

It's only a matter of time before we see it on major type coins.
This makes more sense than "full corn" or "full claw" or "full stars."

roadrunner

DRG

At the risk of ridicule I will add my two cents.

Anyone that knows me knows that I have been collecting the much maligned Susan B. Anthony Dollar for a long time. To answer the question of how did “FULL XXXX” get started I will describe what I look for in a good SBA$ and why.

When I look at a high grade SBA$, say a 1980 S PCGS MS67, I look first at overall eye appeal (something that I think is really an individual issue). Some people will like a coins toning, some will hate it. Some people prefer only brilliant white coins. That is why I think the “Star” designation is not really needed. My slug may be your star. My point is that eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder.

The next thing I look at is at the actual flaws. Is the coin good for the grade, average, below average? This is really a technical issue. While some subjectivity is definitely involved, there are set criteria for how many, how deep and where the coins flaws can be. Grading is a technical issue and although strike is part of this, a coin may be MS67 but not have full strike detail.

The last thing I look at is the reverse eagle’s talons. After looking at hundreds of thousands of SBA$’s I noticed that the most readily recognized feature that is often weakly struck is the talons. Many coins were struck with no talons at all. It is not that it is rare to find a SBA$ with fully struck talons, but that for a coin to be a truly great example it must have 6 well defined talons and many MS67’s do not.

Over the years I have upgraded all of my SBA’s to what I consider PQ examples for eye appeal with particular attention to the coin having Full Talons. Doing this took quite a few years!! After I completed my set I started talking about this designation with other collectors of the series. While it is true that I sell FT coins for more than non FT coins, I also pay more for these coins.

I now see Full Talons showing up in descriptions of other SBA’s and suspect that over the next 10-20 years this trend will grow.

Although I think the idea of “Full Strike” as opposed to “Full Head, Full Steps, Full Bands, or Full Talons” seems logical the fact remains that criteria must be set to satisfy the “Full” designation. These criteria need to be relatively straight forward. 51 out of 52 strands of hair, full eye detail and .2 mm depth lettering throughout or some other wildly specific detail will never be workable. 5 full steps on the other hand, or 2 fully split bands are good examples of very specific and workable criteria. They may not be the “best” criteria to describe a fully struck coin but they are a WORKABLE way. For the SBA, 6 well defined talons with no bridges is an easily identified marker of full strike.

I suspect that this is how other similar designations got their beginnings. I have read some more cynical views that these were all started by people out to make money. While I am sure that someone may popularize one of these to make money I doubt that one was ever STARTED for that reason.

leothelyon

<< <i>Or maybe it will be "well struck" since so many coins are technically 95% but really NOT perfectly struck, 19th century proofs included.
Being 95% or better struck on all areas of the coin (feathers, head, stars, legend, denticles, figures, date, shields, etc.) should merit such a designation.

roadrunner >>



And this is so TRUE! For the Jefferson nickel, it's a small area above the ear that does not strike up. I doubt if most Jeff collectors know what I'm talking about! It's an area of detail that places an exclamation mark on the term EDS! Without it, the strike is less than 100% Full. But this fact needs to be recognized and accepted in determining what constitutes a 95% full strike verses an EDS strike and this would be it! Same thing can be said about the steps but for now that's ALL a coin needs for all it's glory and GOD! lol what a joke!
I have less than a dozen of these coins where I consider them EDS examples! And that's after some 15 years and thousands of coins but where do they fit into the grading scale? It's really an area where knowledgeable collectors need to come together and form a club that would recognized, document and photograph such coins. The TGS are never going to do it! Their hung up on average strikes for top grades! lol
There's really not enough time for everyone, not enough time to wait for everyone to jump on the bandwagon with this. There should have already been a place reserved on the grading scale for such coins but instead such collectors are called specialist, another way of saying, you're screwed if you have been wasting all your time looking for those coins because we don't have the time or patience to grade and recognise those coins...................

Leo

roadrunner

I don't think the 95% full strike criteria would be any more difficult to enforce than the FSB, FT, FH, or FBL criteria already in effect. You can look at any of these and see a complete continuum in the depth of the strike. You could probably break down the current FSB criteria into 5 steps:

-Not really FSB but sort of looks like it from across the room
-Looks split from 12 inches away...at least sometimes.
-Looks split but with little depth under 5X magnification
-Looks fully split and rounded under 5X magnification
-Looks like the Colorado river! Holy H2O Batman.

I guess what I'm saying and others seem to support, is that the current criteria for "full XXX" is a moving target and is all over the map. The services have been all for these designations because it leads to resubmissions and "found" money for submitters. A constant evolving set of standards is ideal for the TPG's. The one thing they cannot ever do is to tighten up long term either on strike or grade criteria. They have to inflate or die.

roadrunner

keets

perhaps it's important to consider that the founders at PCGS-----just to use an example-----were all respected Numismatists and proficient graders at the point of start-up. certainly some of the designation fever and acquiescence is driven by profit, but certain designations were in place when PCGS opened their doors. that tells me that the founders of the company and the hobby in general already understood that for certain series there was accepted strike quality premiums. also, for certain series, there are strike quality anomalies and the designations tend to bring that to our attention with the insert.

in short, i don't think PCGS-----just to use an example-----tried to capitalize on any designation, i think it was done because the hobby accepted it and the service gave us what we wanted. since then, each hobby segment has lobbied for it's own designation, and when PCGS-----just to use an example-----thought it was justified based on collector demand, those designations were noted.

do you really think that any grading service profits by designating a coin??

DRG

One more thing I would add is that I have had personal discussions with Mr. Hall about the addition of the Full Talon designation to the grading of SBA$'s. To summarize his view it was that he did not think that there was enough customer demand to justify it at this point and he further cautioned that adding this designation could have the negative effect of lowering the value of the NON-FT coins without any real positive effect.

I point this out to support the idea that PCGS is not just looking to increase their revenue by adding another designation. Mr. Hall seemed VERY genuine in his appraisal of the issue with his primary concern being what was best for the hobby.

Keets: I agree with you.

leothelyon

<< <i>One more thing I would add is that I have had personal discussions with Mr. Hall about the addition of the Full Talon designation to the grading of SBA$'s. To summarize his view it was that he did not think that there was enough customer demand to justify it at this point and he further cautioned that adding this designation could have the negative effect of lowering the value of the NON-FT coins without any real positive effect.

I point this out to support the idea that PCGS is not just looking to increase their revenue by adding another designation. Mr. Hall seemed VERY genuine in his appraisal of the issue with his primary concern being what was best for the hobby.

Keets: I agree with you. >>



So.....what you're saying, what PCGS is saying, is that they have no intensions in certifying the best coins for now for certain series? PCGS is refusing to give those collectors the recognition and rewards for their dedication and long hard searches to locate these coins. Interestingly, Mr PCGS said the same thing about recognizing 6 step Jefferson nickels.
Well, here's a news flash for everyone! There's never going to be enough custumer demand for the most important designation of them all, "the Full Strike" because not every collector has them or enough of them to make any waves about it!

So.....getting back to this "Well Struck Coin Galaxy" club that I mentioned somewhere...........who would be interested in joining?

Leo... the self appointed President of the very recently formed WSCG! (Until everyone votes me out, of course)

keets

hey Leo

sad to say, but the reality is that it's just too difficult to make a determination on your full strike request. some coins are fully struck but the detail has been eroded from the die to the point that the coins look to be weakly struck. many good examples exist in the Jefferson series from the mid-50's dates, examples which give Full Step detail while the remainder of the coin looks weakly struck as a result of die erosion. there are other series examples that don't need to be mentioned, i assume you get the point.

the best solution may be to collect the best struck coins you can find, keep them raw or holdered and sleep safe in the knowledge of what you have. in future years they should be recognized for what they are by an astute collector. ranting about PCGS and other services not assigning a high market value to them now might be the worst example of plastic buying, and i've been around long enough to know that's not what you're about.

collect what you perceive to be the best coins. the soundness of your determinations will be witnessed in the years ahead.

cladking

<< <i>

the best solution may be to collect the best struck coins you can find, keep them raw or holdered and sleep safe in the knowledge of what you have. in future years they should be recognized for what they are by an astute collector. ranting about PCGS and other services not assigning a high market value to them now might be the worst example of plastic buying, and i've been around long enough to know that's not what you're about.

collect what you perceive to be the best coins. the soundness of your determinations will be witnessed in the years ahead. >>



Collectors always seem to do best financially in the hobby because they don't worry
about what's popular or profitable. They try to complete sets with the hand they've
been dealt and aspire to quality and completeness. One learns that coins like the '54-S
isn't often seen nice with or without steps. As time goes on and one puts more effort
into a collection it's only natural there will be some rarities in it.

You can't go wrong collecting coins because they always pay off in fun.

leothelyon

<< <i>hey Leo

sad to say, but the reality is that it's just too difficult to make a determination on your full strike request. some coins are fully struck but the detail has been eroded from the die to the point that the coins look to be weakly struck. many good examples exist in the Jefferson series from the mid-50's dates, examples which give Full Step detail while the remainder of the coin looks weakly struck as a result of die erosion. there are other series examples that don't need to be mentioned, i assume you get the point.

the best solution may be to collect the best struck coins you can find, keep them raw or holdered and sleep safe in the knowledge of what you have. in future years they should be recognized for what they are by an astute collector. ranting about PCGS and other services not assigning a high market value to them now might be the worst example of plastic buying, and i've been around long enough to know that's not what you're about.

collect what you perceive to be the best coins. the soundness of your determinations will be witnessed in the years ahead. >>



OK Keets
You can be some kind of Advisory President and Cladking................we'll get you busy with something like a Secretary! Now all we need is a Treasurer, someone to add up all the membership fees! And some members! And then we need some suggestions for our first agenda, will probably need to vote on that, of course. And then we'll need to decide by what majority of votes an agenda would need to pass with. And then there's the writing of what constitutes a full strike! Who will bring the coffee and donuts?
I just decided that I don't want to be the President of WSCG anymore! I believe we should have several located throughout the country. This way would allow for more meetings in those selected areas and to get those fully struck coins cataloged faster.

All in favor say AYE!

Leo

Leo

cladking

Aye. Getting busy with a secretary can be counterproductive but even more fun.

leothelyon

<< <i>Aye. Getting busy with a secretary can be counterproductive but even more fun. >>



lol Any ladies want to jump on cladking, I meant, being the Secretary? Why do women alway get this job? Because they're smarter and type faster? I don't really know!

This club would verify all fully struck coins of all denominations, not just Jefferson nickels! I would think that the main purpose to this newly founded group is to help those coins of high quality get their notoriety among other collectors. And people would want to see such coins for themselves!
What do you think Cladking since we're the only members..........so far?

Leo

cladking

The nickels alone would be a massive project since there's so much variation from date to date.

It seems that with the weak strikes, worn dies, and oblique strikes that have been so typical
since 1950 that collectors are just going to gravitate to these coins anyway.

And imagine all the fighting we'd have once we finally defined full stike to everyone's satisfaction
and then somebody wanted to institute strike designations among the fully struck coins. It could
get ugly.

leothelyon

<< <i>The nickels alone would be a massive project since there's so much variation from date to date.

It seems that with the weak strikes, worn dies, and oblique strikes that have been so typical
since 1950 that collectors are just going to gravitate to these coins anyway.

And imagine all the fighting we'd have once we finally defined full stike to everyone's satisfaction
and then somebody wanted to institute strike designations among the fully struck coins. It could
get ugly. >>



I would think that all those collectors who strongly believe in "Buying the Coin and Not the Holder" would be the first in line to join such a group. Perhaps a statement could be written up that was endorsed by PCGS and ebay and Heritage alike that would include this statement into auctions where the group believed
such coins would warranted such a "buyers beware" statement!
What do you think about this suggestion Cladking? Do you have anything to add?

Leo

keets

So.....what you're saying, what PCGS is saying, is that they have no intensions in certifying the best coins for now for certain series?

how did you get the above out of what i said and then turn to a rant about some club?? you probably missed my point and maybe i failed to use the requisite icon, whatever.

PCGS will indeed certify the best coins, though they might not identify them on the holder the way you'd need/want/hope they would. trying to determine best strike would be an unreasonable expectation and probably bring more problems than solutions, more upset collectors than satisfied ones. to my way of thinking it would be just another artificial price hike, market grading if you will, for a collector to deal with.

leothelyon

<< <i>So.....what you're saying, what PCGS is saying, is that they have no intensions in certifying the best coins for now for certain series?

how did you get the above out of what i said and then turn to a rant about some club?? you probably missed my point and maybe i failed to use the requisite icon, whatever. >>



I believe it was something he said, she said, DRG said Hall said! That kind of thing.

PCGS will indeed certify the best coins, though they might not identify them on the holder the way you'd need/want/hope they would. trying to determine best strike would be an unreasonable expectation and probably bring more problems than solutions, more upset collectors than satisfied ones. to my way of thinking it would be just another artificial price hike, market grading if you will, for a collector to deal with.

Now you're starting to sound like Monty Hall, I meant.....oh forget it!

But I did like what our newest member suggested! Time for another post!

Leo

leothelyon

<< <i>The nickels alone would be a massive project since there's so much variation from date to date.

It seems that with the weak strikes, worn dies, and oblique strikes that have been so typical
since 1950 that collectors are just going to gravitate to these coins anyway.

And imagine all the fighting we'd have once we finally defined full stike to everyone's satisfaction
and then somebody wanted to institute strike designations among the fully struck coins. It could
get ugly. >>



And I actually thought about this on my way to work after I posted this morning!
It would be great to hear from collectors who are experts in their field of specialty with what they have learned to be the major factors that would constitute a full strike in the series that they collect!

Man Cladking, you're a genius!

Leo