Home Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

I have heard it all now.....an Ebay excuse for the ages...

I guess I have learned my lesson on Ebay. A few weeks ago I bought a raw 1956 Warren Spahn card advertised as NM-MT, for $31. Scan looked great, seller's feedback was great. Well as you can imagine, I got the card and it was no more than an EX-MT card. Didn't even look like the same card as in the scan. I asked the seller for a refund, which is what his return policy was. He asked why, and I told him (politely) that the condition of the card was not as advertised. Here is the response I got:


I apologize about that. My son's friend owns a card shop here in town and pretty much labled each one with its condition on a sticky note. Maybe we can work something out. Now the only reason I am relluctant to just say, 'Ok send me the card back for a refund' is because during the last month my family has suffered two major blows financially. My son and daughter-in-law had an illness that caused them to get very behind in bills, so my wife and I helped out. And a few weeks ago when hurricane Katrina hit, my brother-in-law, and his family lost their home in the storm (they were all shaken but fine otherwise) and my wife and I made arrangements to have them stay with us for the time being. As it was my wife's only sibling it was hard to do anything else. So I have an abbundance of mouths to feed while Tom tries to find a new job and tries to rebuild his families life. Where this concerns the card issue is that I am a retired carpenter and only receive pension checks at the end of each month and have lierally no money until the end of the month. So if you would lie to keep it as a filler card then that would better suit me, or we can work out a deal for after the 1st of October. Please let me know. Regards, Brent


In one paragraph, I get:

a) the excuse of "my (insert friend/relative of a friend/relative) graded and/or labeled the card incorrectly";
b) the excuse of "my family has suffered a major financial blow"
c) the excuse of "my (insert parent, child, friend, relative, or dog) is sick
d) the excuse of "my (insert parent, child, friend, friend of a friend, brother, sister, etc.) was in Hurricane Katrina (a new one!)
e) the excuse of "I have mouths to feed so I really can't refund your $31
f) the excuse of "I have no money to refund your $31 until the end of the month"
g) the tactic of "please keep this card as a filler card".

I hate to be cynical, but jeesh. If this guy has all these problems, perhaps he should devoting his time to resolving these issues rather than selling on Ebay.



Ron Burgundy

Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items

Comments

  • everything but the kitchen sink. Wait, that will be in the second email??

    image
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭
    I would say that if his son's friend owns a card shop here in town abd labeled it as Near Mint, then he would have no problem BUYING the card back from grandpa so that you can get a refund
    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • Seller obviously has quite a lucrative CUT-AND-PASTE scheme working out. Insert current national disaster (Katrina, 9/11, local tornado, fire, child molester out on bail, etc.) into tragedy space.
  • All I can do is laff when I read that. I'd just file a claim with paypal (card not recieved as advertisted).
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    I fail to see how any of this is the buyer's problem. If you don't want to deal with refunds, etc., then list the card accurately OR list that you will not accept refunds.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I didn't see where he said he paid via paypal.



    SD



    Good for you.
  • I'd be real curious to know what this guy has been selling (or buying if that). I think he'd be much more believable (IF he's actually telling the truth...) if he'd just say he'd take the card back and issue a refund when he's gotten his "dificulties" ironed out, instead of the massive sob story which has every cliche imaginable.

    Or you could just keep the card as filler...which I'm sure is what you had in mind when you dropped $31 on it. image
    Always looking for 1996 Select Certified Football.
  • MeferMefer Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭
    I would not get bogged down in wading through his response. I have encountered this situation more times than I care to remember (i.e., receive an overgraded card on eBay). If you want the card, and can live with it, offer him a reduced price. I usually say something like this:

    "I respectfully disagree with your grading of the card. I would like, however, to work this out. I have two options in mind: (1) I will keep the card if you refund me x dollars of my purchase price; or (2) I will send it back to you for a rull refund. Either way is fine with me. Once we get this worked out, I will be happy to leave you positive feedback."

    Short, simple and sweet. I find it is never good to get vindictive and hostile with a seller (remember, they have your money) no matter how ticked you are. Remaining nice and professional seems to go a long way.

    Good luck as to whatever you decide to do.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    I did pay via Paypal.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    If that is the case you can go through them. That is if he has funds in the acct.

    did u use a credit card? or transfer?

    good luck in any event.


    SD
    Good for you.
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    I think what Mefer had to say is right on the money. I would reply to the seller just as he outlined. Take the high road. The guy has not stuffed you as yet...just trying to wriggle out as best he can. Keep us posted. Regards.
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭
    Mefer and DH got it right - keep it professional. Sometimes, people just tell you more than you bargained for. My take was the guy was venting - jeez, if his life really looks the way he describes, he probably needed to cry on somebody's shoulder.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • Just make sure the "We can make a deal after October 1" line isnt after the 45 day window for leaving feedback. Just making sure that all the bases are covered........
  • Feedback window is 90 days. 45 days is the Paypal dispute cut-off.
  • Good luck filing a claim with PayPal over the condition of the card. Not a high-yield claim. Did he use Delivery Confirmation? If not, I'd file an item not received claim and send him the card back when it's decided in your favor. Otherwise, you're likely screwed.
  • Mr. Burgandy,

    I know it stinks to hear a sob story, were you expecting to get a nm-mt Spahn for $31? SMR for an 8 is $265. A 7 is $90 and a 6 is $55. I am sure you probably know this. This guy is offering you a deal. I think a 6 is not a bad deal at $31 let alone if you can get it for $20 or a little more. If the card is unaltered and he just misgraded I say take him at his word maybe he does have a hardship. If the guy is stalling at a mere $31 I would tend to believe him. We're not talking about a fortune here and it sounds like a decent card. I am not trying to be snotty but this really does not sound that bad to me. I try to by raw cards on ebay and get them graded. It seems you do too, and this situation happens more often than not. This instance really I would chalked up to the upside of a disappointment. You wanted an 8 and got a 6 for less than the price of a 6 plus grading. Put yourself in seller's shoes. Would you be estatic at selling a true Ex-Mt '56 Spahn for less than $31? I sure as hell wouldn't. The card auctioned for $31 and you were the high bidder. Maybe you got more excited about the auction title/description than the scan. Other bidder's bids abviouly didn't reflect the scan as appearing to be nm-mt. If they thought it so no way the card goes for what it went for. I bet the card would have brought the same or a little more if described as ex-mt or ex-mt+. Again just trying to provide a little perspective here and not trying to be offensive.

    Damian
  • 100% in agreement
  • jskirwinjskirwin Posts: 700 ✭✭✭
    I think the buyer was expecting a steal and didn't get one - and the seller needs another line of work. Either way, it sounds to me like the card is worth it.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Didn't even look like the same card as in the scan



    Methinks the seller saw how low it went and quite possibly sent a different example.

    SD
    Good for you.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Wow, someone missed the point here. The point is, the card was not as advertised. Perhaps it is just me, but I do not like dealing with liars, or excuse-makers. And, uh, it's really not a good deal anyway. If I grade this card and try to flip it, there is no way I'll recover my $31, plus grading fees, plus Ebay fees. Spahn cards are not that popular and can be had for about 85% of SMR in PSA 8, 70% in PSA 7, and much less for lower grades.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • This is why I hate buying raw on the bay. We tend to get a little overexcited and have high expectations only to have it all snuffed out once the product is in our hands. I look for 2 things. If a seller claims his raw card is in X condition and is pretty adamant about his claim, I better receive that card in that condition. If not, then I agree with Ron on this one.....refund my money for the item not as advertised. I don't care about your bleeding eyeballs, hemorroids, or testicular cancer story. Secondly, if seller claims card is in X condition in raw and we're all in the same game to potentially pick it up cheap and have it slab....why isn't it already slabbed? Is he selling raw with graded cards as well? Maybe the card has been altered or rejected previously; so bid accordingly.

    I just had a batch of cards sent to me from a friend because he wanted it pre-graded by yours truly. One of the cards was a 1985 Topps Roger Clemens rookie that he purchased raw for $34. The seller said the card was Mint + and is very gradeable. He received the card and it had a couple fisheyes on the cap and the surface wasn't that hot altogether. Anyways, he complained about the condition and they worked it out where the seller sent him back $17 to compensate for the condition....okay fair enough. I looked at the card yesterday and the card has been trimmed. So yes, the card is Mint + once it was fixed up and badly done. Spend what you can afford to lose and don't have high expectations.
    image
  • I agree that $31 was a good price for the card. Now if the scan was not acceptable then a point can be made for improper representation. Sometimes of course the scan and card can be compared for differences.

    Here is what I would reply to the seller, just to shake him up -

    "You think you have problems. I was rescued from my roof six days ago and the only personal property I have to my name is this Warren Spahn."
  • Burg,

    Can you post a scan of the card and a link to the auction? It might shed some light, but I don't think I missed your point. The bids of the other bidders and people not bidding at all don't reflect a card that looks Nm-Mt in a scan. Alot of people honestly are liberal graders. To alot of collectors there really isn't a big difference to them in ex-mt and nm-mt. They just don't know. If everyone did PSA would not be in business. If you are going on the description alone for auctions what is the point of having a good picture or picture at all in the auction? If your issue is with peoples grades in describing card condition for raw cards on ebay then you have issue with 99% of raw sellers on ebay. Rarely do I get a raw card graded by PSA that meets sellers grade. I have gotten 8's on cards listed as mint but rarely. Also it sounds to me that the guy is offering a partial refund on the $31 you paid. No? There is an element of trust involved in doing that. As a seller I won't do partial refunds. If buyer is unhappy they can send the card back for a full refund. How do I know the card really has that "missed surface wrinkle" they are claiming? Anyway I guess my point is you are taking a gamble buying raw and trying to make big bucks on every card you purchase. Your posts makes it sound like this seller is some huge scamming rip off artist just out for your wallet. I don't think its the case. He sounds like a relatively honest seller that grades more liberally than PSA and you are upset that you are not going to triple your money. I respect you and have probably even had a similar feelings before about raw cards I've bought, but I just don't think you are being realistic. Its great when you get a bargain on a raw card, but it's just not going to happen everytime. I say take a partial refund and turn the card in trade or sell and buy something else. Sorry to preach.

    Damian
  • What Damian said.
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    RonB - you are missing the point if you are not heeding the feedback from the members replying to your question. Forget the seller's sob story, the Ebay antics, and ancillary comments about the value of the card.

    Have you responded to the seller???? Respond to the seller!!! What are you waiting for?? Tell us what you responded. Tell us what he responded. Then...you can gripe. Taking issue with responses to your post on this board isn't going to solve your issue . Take some action! Let us know how you made out! Regards.
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
Sign In or Register to comment.