To neg or not, cheap raw lesson

williplett

I bought this 1977 raw Bench for $2.50 plus only .50 postage. The card came in the guy's employer's envelope with metered postage. I guess if your shipping your stuff on your company's dime, you can cut costs!

Well, I open up the envelope and the top edge of the card looks real rough cut, like an OPC. It was pretty straight trim job, but it appears the razor used was older than the card itself! Sure enough, I stack it up against some of my other loose 77's and it is definitely trimmed on the top edge.

Would you neg the guy or not?

Here is the scan of the card from Ebay. I know buying raw off Ebay is a big risk, so I bid accordingly.

envoy98

First, I would ask the guy for a refund. Then I would threaten a neg, and last...I would neg.

CollectorChris

Not worth the grief. If you neg him, he'll likely neg you (if he hasn't yet given feedback). Cheap raw lesson is right! I stopped buying raw on Ebay three years ago.

williplett

He has already left me positive feedback. I should call his boss and ask him if he knows Omar is using the company envelopes and postage meter to mail out his Ebay items.

A761506

Buying raw is like gambling, you take your chances. There is no need to neg anyone in this situation. For $2.50, you let it go. Not even worth bothering to ask for a refund, just chalk it up as a loss and move on. Eventually, you'll pick up a raw card that grades well and that will make up for all the bad ones along the way.

When you buy raw, if you expect to get cards that are trimmed or far worse looking than the picture in the auction, or that have creases or wrinkles, you'll be much more satisfied when a good one shows up, and not disappointed when you get one that is exactly what you expected.

zef204

I agree with A761506. Buying raw is a crapshoot. And from what you have said, the company envelope and the metered mail didn't effect the condition of the card. i think you take you're $3.00 and consider it a chance that didn't work in your favor. How the guy mails the card is not really an issue if it got to you safely. If it was your employee I would take issue, but since it is likely not and you are just bitter the card wasn't as good as you hoped just be glad you didn't pay $30 for a raw card.

I recently bought an SGC 92 and was hoping it may cross and once I cracked it out I saw considerable scratches on the surface that PSA would never let slide for an 8-9(which would match up to an SGC 92). I just chalked that up to my mistake that I have a now raw card that would never grade for what I bought it for and I am $150 out.

This all being said, I have gotten cards from a seller that were nowhere near the condition stated and I left him POS feedback but said that cards were overgraded. He then returned 2 negs on me. For what? Nothing. But this guy left you feedback for living upto your end, I would give him POS and state your issue there.

DirtyHarry

$2.50 card?? Move on....................

lostdart58

A vintage HOFer for $2.50??? You pay what you get..............MOVE ON....

2dueces

if you keep buying raw, you will a seller who undergrades his cards just to make sure the customer is happy and make up the 3 bucks. I bought a lot of 1961 Topps football from a woman that her husband had been a dealer. Didnt ask the details as to why her husband wasnt selling them. ( maybe he passed on? and wasnone of my business.) Anyway she graded the cards as EX+. The lotcontained 75% of the set and many stars including both Jim Brown cards. I wasnt expecting much, but thought for the price a md grade raw set would be nice to have. When I recieved the cards I was shocked. About 90% looked as if the had just been busted from packs. High gloss and sharp corners. The centering was hit or miss as with any pack fresh cards. Needess to say I was very pleased and wrote her a nice e-mail telling her she had under graded the lot. She wrote me and said she would rather err on the low side rather the other way. Very nice lady and a great e-bay experience. Bad thing is, now I have to find cards of the same quality to complete the set. I would figure if I sent them in for grading, the centered examples would conservitavely grade a ton of 8's a dozen 9's and on a good day 3 or 4 10's. Good deals can happen.

kingraider75

Leave a neutral. The idiot may not have known the card was trimmed. For $3 it's probably not even worth leaving any feedback at all.

williplett

I left him a neutral. He had claimed that the card went into a plastic case right from the pack. The 3 bucks isn't the point. Of course the anger rises with the price, had it been $300 or $3,000 it would have really worked me up. For me it is just a matter of principle. Would it be okay for me to pull a dine and dash at Denny's on a $3.99 grand slam breakfast but wrong for me to do the same for an expensive dinner at some steakhouse? Nope. Wrong is wrong, no matter how you slice it.

pandrews

<< <i>I left him a neutral. He had claimed that the card went into a plastic case right from the pack. The 3 bucks isn't the point. Of course the anger rises with the price, had it been $300 or $3,000 it would have really worked me up. For me it is just a matter of principle. Would it be okay for me to pull a dine and dash at Denny's on a $3.99 grand slam breakfast but wrong for me to do the same for an expensive dinner at some steakhouse? Nope. Wrong is wrong, no matter how you slice it. >>



did you even bother to communicate your disatisfaction with the seller before you left a nuetral?

if not, i'll make sure to add you to my blocked bidders list..

this is why some sellers wait for the buyer to leave feedback first..

williplett

Please add me to your blocked bidders list. I catch him trimming a card and lying about placing it from the pack to the sleeve and I am supposed to enter in some sort of discourse with him? What would that accomplish? I might get my lousy 3 bucks back, big deal. Then he goes and puts the card back on Ebay and screws someone else.

Let's say I sell 50 trimmed cards on Ebay. 40 of the 50 buyers don't notice they are trimmed or don't care. The other 10 buyers catch me and call me on selling trimmed cards. I buy them off by refunding their money and they leave no feedback at all. The other 40 buyers leave positive feedback. I lied and sold 50 trimmed cards and have a 100% positive feedback rating. What's wrong with that picture. I don't subscribe to the "it's only wrong if you get caught" school of thinking.

He is lucky I left him a neutral and not a negative.

pandrews

edit - you're probably right, but... still blocked..

ctsoxfan

<< <i>did you even bother to communicate your disatisfaction with the seller before you left a nuetral?

if not, i'll make sure to add you to my blocked bidders list..

this is why some sellers wait for the buyer to leave feedback first..
>>




Ditto - with all the time you spent here writing about a $2.50 card, you should have taken a few seconds (if it means that much to you) and emailed the seller before leaving feedback like that. You should at least give the guy a chance to make it right - for all you know, he got the card in a bulk lot, and sold it without looking at it that closely. In any event, you should have emailed him, and if he ignored you (or failed to make the situation right), then you do what you have to do.

MiniMaster

It appears the seller did tell the buyer it went into the card holder straight from the pack. This is clearly a lie if the card was an obvious trim job! The seller takes a photo of the card at an angle from the bottom of the card up? Obviously trying to hide the fact he trimmed the card! What a loser! Probably used the paper cutter at his office....LOL. Anyway, a negative feedback would be appropriate all things considered. Sometimes you have to take a retaliatory Neg. to make sure nobody else gets taken by Mr. Trim. Cost might keep some from taking this action, but it's the principle of the matter in this and many other cases. I respect your decision Williplett

I was scammed not to long ago on a much larger scale and when I was refused a refund, I left Neg. Feedback and received retaliatory Neg. feedback that dinged my 100% positive feedback rating. But I'd never do it differently! It all worked out.....I filed several claims, one with eBay, with Square Trade to get the retaliatory Neg. feedback removed, and a claim with the internet FBI. The refund check arrived soon after that and the Ret. Neg. feedback removed and I'm back to 100%. Of course you'd never do all that for $2.50.....but I was out $1,240.

Bottom line is, if you know the guy was lying that's when you have to share that with others that will read the losers feedback which may have an impact on his future sales. In the end the Retaliatory Neg. feedback is really nothing. Most people can tell if you've received a Retaliatory Neg. vs. a legit well deserved Neg.

jmbkb4

And, in another brilliant CU thread, the guy who gets taken is demonized.

Awesome.

williplett

It is all about the principle with me. I don't care about the throw away amount of money. I call the guy on it for what purpose?, to get my $3.00 back? What is he going to say? He will deny all knowledge of any trimming and will give me my money back and continue selling trimmed cards. How is that doing the hobby any favors?

By leaving neutral feedback saying that he sold me a trimmed card, it at least lets fellow collectors know what others experiences have been with the seller, that is what feedback is all about. I don't agree with Ebay allowing people people to withdraw feedback either. Look at that Nomar5378 guy, he was a power seller with better than 99% feedback. He literally defrauded people out of thousands of dollars, but between buyer's ignorance, his refunding money when he was caught, and Ebay's allowing feedback to be mutually withdrawn, he was able to process several thousands of transactions. Honest feedback is important to the Ebay community.

packCollector

how do you know it's trimmed? just because the top is rough? Take a stack of cards, some from vending , some from wax, some from cellos, and some from racks and I can guarantee you the cards will be differnet sizes and have different cuts, that's why we have professional graders. If you asked the guy for a refund due to your unsatisfaction you should hvae neged him or given a neutral. If you just left the neutral based on a rough cut, it probably wasn't fair.

by the way what is your ebay id and the sellers

baseballfanatic

Hard to base a negative or nuetral on a trim job of a 3.00 card. How many people here have cracked fresh packs, picked out a primo card to send to PSA and had it come back "Not holdered/Evid Trim..............?

pandrews

<< <i>by the way what is your ebay id and the sellers >>



williplett's ebay ID is "RolexKing1" and the sellers ID is "cbr600f4i"..

the seller appears to be a novice, and all of his descriptions say "from the original package".. he may have legitimately not known about the card being trimmed..

i had a raw card up for auction, and somebody emailed me to ask if it was trimmed.. i went and looked at the card again, and no, it wasnt trimmed, but it was actually OVERSIZED and had a very slight curved cut to it.. i bought the card in a collection and i listed it without even noticing the cut.. regardless, i ended the auction early, and I still have the card..

If the guy wouldve bought it from me, and left me neg or nuetral feedback without communicating with me, it wouldve been unwarranted..

packCollector

thanks pandrews, another for my blocked list as i don't think it was a fair feedback. look at hte guys few listings , I doubt he is sitting back trimming cards. he has sold a couple cards and is attempting the overhead digital camera shots . if he has the skills to trim a card , I think he would have a lot more cards and a lot better presentation. and about claiming he is a trimmer because he said it is from a package doesn't seem fair, i have had plenty of cards come back as minimum size or miscut that I pulled from vending or wax so it is possible to come out of a pack that way. looks like a raw deal on the feedback. you claim he deserved it because if he sold 50 cards he trimmed away with 40 by issuing refunds for the rest that you needed to leave the feedback. The guy has sold 7, yes 7 cards and all but 1 were listed for $5 or less. Doesn't look like a guy set up in his basement saying , what a bunch os suckers ebayers are!

ctsoxfan

Thanks also, pandrews. I seriously doubt someone would try and "trim" a 1977 Johnny Bench card. The more logical explanation is the one laid out by packcollector - which has definitely happened to me personally on many occasions. Even from a new vending box, sometimes cards are a bit smaller, sometimes a bit larger. The dreaded "EVID OF TRIM" comes back on some of these cards, when there is no way that they were actually trimmed by someone.

ldferg

good point packcollector. 81 donruss is a good example of cards not measuring up in size. anyone that has purchased a few packs of these and stacked them together will know what i'm referring to.

Stingray

I have a 75 PSA 8 Mets team card that is definately smaller in size than my other 75s, was wondering if maybe it came from a vending box and that is they way they came from the vending? It can be stacked with my other PSA graded cards and you can see the size difference. Wish I had a scan for you.

Stingray

smallstocks

I submitted a 1968 Ryan rookie in my first sub. ever to PSA. Was I peaved when it came back as "Not Holdered, Miscut". When the card came back to me I measured it against two other Ryan rookies and low and behind it was significantly smaller. For the record, I am the original owner of all three cards dating back to the late 1960's. Point is, not all cards were cut alike by Topps and not everyone notices that difference unless the card is thoroughly examined.

williplett

My user ID is Rolexking1 as Pandrews said. Pandrews and Packcollector, would you tell us your Ebay user ID's? With your coming to the defense of a guy selling poorly trimmed cards and your boatload of excuses, fellow board members may want to take that into account before doing business with either of you. It speaks of some things about the both of you and your approach to business.

VintageJeff

And we are supposed to take your "expert" opinion that it is trimmed as gospel? Get off your soapbox already and move on.

packCollector

<< <i>Pandrews and Packcollector, would you tell us your Ebay user ID's? With your coming to the defense of a guy selling poorly trimmed cards and your boatload of excuses, fellow board members may want to take that into account before doing business with either of you. It speaks of some things about the both of you and your approach to business.
>>



No Problem! I am not defending anyone , I am looking rationally at a 2.50 card sold by a seller who has listed a grand total of 7 cards and trying to come up with a logical explanation , I have cracked alot of wax and vending so I know the variations in the cards and that was the 2 cents I was giving. We'll let the bidders make there own decisions. I have sold to the majority of people on this board both on ebay and privately many many thousands of dollars of cards and packs. to make things easier for you here are my items from the last 30 days and currently for sale. by the way all of the items that did not sell have already been sold privately for close to the ebay amounts.

my auctions

and if you want to take a look at my feedback, I'll let the board members make their own decisions on my character.

my feedback

pandrews

<< <i>Pandrews and Packcollector, would you tell us your Ebay user ID's? >>



no.. but my feedback rating is 38% positive..

edit - 3291 negatives..

EagleEyeKid

LOL, stop making trouble Perry.
For what it's worth, I believe most cards (70% +) in raw form sold on Ebay have been altered in one way or another. This doesn't just apply to vintage. I've had my share of a handful of modern cards that have been trimmed. Buying raw on Ebay is a huge risk. If I see a seller selling a bunch of raw cards, and he's also selling graded cards....I would stay clear. There is a reason why those cards are still raw. Didn't meet the grade he wanted, or rejected for one reason or another. I've had everything from Evid of Trimming to PSA 10. It's a crap shoot.

For $3, that card simply would of just ended in my trash can or I would of just given it to the neighbor's kid and move on. That's the gamble with buying raw. I've had higher $ cards that were trimmed, and the seller(s) have refunded my money. What they do with the card afterwards is their business.....back on Ebay, recycling it, using it as toilet paper, etc. It's all Karma.

Engineer

I am not an expert on 1977 Topps but I seem to remember having some cards with a rough cut on the top or bottom - I am pretty sure they weren't trimmed. Can you post a scan of the card so we can see the top and corners? Just curious, Adam B.

EagleEyeKid

no.. but my feedback rating is 38% positive..

pandrews' feedback

Buccaneer

<< <i>Not worth the grief. If you neg him, he'll likely neg you (if he hasn't yet given feedback). Cheap raw lesson is right! I stopped buying raw on Ebay three years ago. >>



Same here (except it was 2 years ago). It has gotten to the point where I cannot sell raw vintage anymore at a decent price. As much as my feedbacks have said that "the cards were better than described", I know what buyers are thinking. There is one dealer that I implicitly trust for raws but he doesn't sell them on eBay anymore either.

pandrews

<< <i>no.. but my feedback rating is 38% positive..

pandrews' feedback >>



this is another one of my old ID's.. LINK

CopperJJ

<< <i> If I see a seller selling a bunch of raw cards, and he's also selling graded cards....I would stay clear. There is a reason why those cards are still raw. >>



I find it hard to believe that someone will spend $8-$12 or more to get a card graded that will only be able to get $3-$5 if it grades VG-EX. I have spent a little bit on sending mid grade vintage to PSA only to get back cards that can be sold for $3.00. If someone can sell the card for $3.00 raw and save $12 on grading, I think they are playing it smart. Yes there is a chance to be taken by buying raw, but if the seller has a good description, good pic, and good feedback, they should stand behind what they sell. I have bought cards over the years on ebay that came back trimmed and colored from PSA, and when they came back from PSA, I confirmed the problem by taking a closer look and then threw them in the trash.

Now if I was selling a low to mid grade big rookie, ie: Ryan, Bench, Seaver, Rose, Schmidt, etc., or a Mantle, Maris, etc., I'd definately send it in for authenticity reasons also.

As far as the original question posed for this thread...I would have asked for the refund or just forgot about it since he already left positive. I have passed on negging two sellers recently for sending me creased cards. One appeared to be a factory crease and I was able to be return it to Donruss and was it replaced. The cards were both won with cheap bid and shipping was reasonable, so I just did not post feedback for them.

Just my opinion. I also don't want to make anyone mad, so it is just my opinion. Thanks.

williplett

I am no expert, but even I could tell a split second after opening the envelope that the card was trimmed. It is a hack job.

I don't believe I have ever bought anything off of Pandrews or PackCollector, so getting banned from buying from them doesn't even register on my radar. I have other buyer ID's anyway.

I get a kick out of someone who brags about their feedback after blocking someone who they heard gave another seller a neutral, not even someone they have ever done business with. Between blocking people that are known to give less than positive feedback and advocating the chance to make things right if the buyer gets shafted, it seems like stacking the deck. I bet if you played pick up B-Ball against only midgets, you would get quite a few uncontested lay ups too, even if nobody was impressed.

Like I said before, Nomar screwed people from sun up to sun down and manipulated the system to have 99%+ positive feedback.

Pure and simple, I got a card that I know was trimmed, be it 3 bucks or 3,000. I used feedback for it's intended purpose of letting others know what my experiences were with this particular seller for this particular transaction.

Maybe I should open a thread on shill bidders so some of the board's usual suspects can rush to their defense and explain how it is probably a big misunderstanding. Heck, maybe I'll even go off topic and give you guys the chance to jump up and down in defense of the ousted FEMA director. Some people are predictable.

Well, I come to this board for interesting discussion and not to hear people who have opinions that mirror mine all the time. While I don't agree with all of them all the time, I certainly respect that they are entitled to them.

MiniMaster

This thread has become a cheap RAW lesson in.......waisted days and waisted nights........la de da da dumb dumb! The Thread Is DEAD

williplett

You mean wasted? I can't really deny that!

Stingray

Pandrew, you trouble maker.


Stingray

packCollector

<< <i>I get a kick out of someone who brags about their feedback >>



Man I have seen spin doctors before and you are right up there. I am not bragging about anything ,I am stating a fact into the type of person I am and transactions that I have and the amount of experience that I have. I have sold to many many people, both high end and low priced cards and everyone gets treated with respect. end of story, you challenged me thinking I am some troll and I proved you wrong. end of story



<< <i>after blocking someone who they heard gave another seller a neutral, not even someone they have ever done business with. Between blocking people that are known to give less than positive feedback and advocating the chance to make things right if the buyer gets shafted >>



I blocked you for the way you handled the transaction. you had 0 respect for the seller and by not contacting the seller to see if he would make it right , you are not a person that I would like to do business with.

I had this happen to me once and it is not fair to the seller. I sold an 83 donruss rack tray and the buyer said the tray was resealed and left a neg without contacting me. It was $3! I emailed them asked whatwas up and refunded their money to save the agrevation. They then opened the 3 packs and pulled a boggs rookie! The point is buyers can be wrong as well as sellers and communication is what makes a good transaction which you failed to do.

SDavid

For what it's worth, I believe most cards (70% +) in raw form sold on Ebay have been altered in one way or another. This doesn't just apply to vintage. I've had my share of a handful of modern cards that have been trimmed.

70%? LOL - who have you been buying from? I don't think it's anywhere near that bad. I used to buy a ton of raw cards off the bay, and, from those purchases, I've only had two cards rejected (both for recoloring). The only cards I've had rejected for trimming were either crackouts or cards I pulled myself that definitely weren't trimmed.

I have spotted a few trim jobs on my own from those raw purchases, but I've spotted more trim jobs in the graded cards I've purchased (including all grading companies) than the raw ones. Most raw cards on the bay aren't even worth altering either due to value or condition.

williplett

I challenged someone thinking they were a troll? Nope. I have made my points and I stand by them.

If I ever buy a card from you under one of my other Ebay user ID's, you will get the feedback you have coming, be it a positive, neutral, or negative.

You sell me a card that looks like a 1st grader hacked at it with their safety scissors and your going to get less than glowing feedback. No, I am not going to give you the chance to "Make it right"

You seem to be the kind of guy would tell the cops to let the guy that burglarized your house go as long as he returned your stuff. That aint the way I handle my business.

packCollector

listen , you bought a $2.50 card and were expecting a card that you could get into a psa 9 holder Be realistic. Please never buy from me as I don't need the aggrevation, I have plenty of other repeat buyers to bid on my stuff as i only sell quality and descibe the cards as it is. The guy you bought from doesn't have the slightest clue how to sell a card or what to look for in a card and you make him out to be GARY MOSER!!! by the way , sell me the card for $5 bucks, I really want to see it , since you can't post a scan and The sad partis that you collect 77 baseball .



<< <i>You seem to be the kind of guy would tell the cops to let the guy that burglarized your house go as long as he returned your stuff. That aint the way I handle my business >>



What a pathetic statement. I am looking at this rationally. You buy raw on ebay , you know what you are getting , you win some , you lose some. You buy a card from a guy that has 7 cards for sale and you make him out to be al capone. I have had enough of this foolish thread , there is no reasoning with you. I just hope you never get screwed by the likes of Moser on a card of more than $2.50 that looks great and was actually trimmed then you will have something to complain about and create a 5 page thread

and lastly, let me know if you want the 5 bucks for the card as i will seriously buy it from you to see what all the fuss is about

packCollector

williplet, what's your opinion of this card?

williplett

By saying that getting screwed on a high buck card I would have something to complain about, it shows that you are missing my point. My point is the principle of the matter.

To follow your logic the guy that gets his 81 Buick stolen should just sit back and be glad it wasn't an 04 Benz. That isn't the way I operate.

It has been a fun thread from where I sit. I do respect your opinions even though I don't agree with them. I am not changing my mind and I sure the heck aint changing yours.

I started the thread to get different opinions on how to proceed and I got what I asked for in spades.

williplett

My opinion is that it isn't as nice as my John McCain or Bob Dole rookies.

packCollector

<< <i>By saying that getting screwed on a high buck card I would have something to complain about, it shows that you are missing my point. My point is the principle of the matter.
>>



I completely get the "principle of the matter" but that would apply if there was intent to deceit which based on the seller it is unclear , that is my point. I stated the above becasue you are making this guy out to be Gary Moser and that is unclear also. Moser , as well as the pro sellers of the world, have intent to deceit and deserve the negative remarks. you have your points and if i thought the guy was intentionally trying to defraud me , I sure as hell would have negged him too!

say I have 5 pieces of jewelry which I know nothing about laying around which I bought for my wife. now that she is my ex-wife and she has taken me for everything I have , to hell with her , I am going to sell the stuff on ebay. i sell her diamond ring and the person buys it has it appraised and they say it is a fake. that b*tch switched the stone I bought her and sold it to pay for her boyfriends lypo suction. I know nothing about jewelry and am not a jewelry dealer , I handle the situation with the buyer and refund him money . then he negs me , the b*stard! this is my point , i got negged for being honest and handling a situation that was out of my control

finally, so is the left side ofthe kemp trimmed or not? i would just like an opinion, thanks

ps : the above was completely made up, I am still happily married

MuckyMutt

<< <i> My point is the principle of the matter. >>



williplett, I have been following this thread and have tried to refrain from posting, but now I have to say something. You speak of principles and yet you forget one very important principle: "A man is innocent until proven guilty." You have inferred intent without any evidence except your opinion. Is your opinion objective? Me thinks not. I thought you posted the initial question to obtain objective opinions and you have received an overwhelming response that has differed from yours. Yet you stand by your conclusion. You have determined guilt and passed sentence without evidence. A simple scan can be had by any number of means, yet you have one excuse not to post a scan and deny us the opportunity to review the only available physical evidence. So we review the other factors that come into play when a "wrong-doing" has taken place. We look for motive: the seller has 7 transactions and there is a low value on the card in question. Not much for motive. How about intent? Know one will ever know for certain what was in the seller's mind, but there is substantial circumstantial evidence that the card could well have come that way from the factory. I myself have 3 or 4 cards that would match your description, and I personally pulled them from a sealed pack. Was the "trimming" done at the factory before they were sealed in a pack? Highly unlikely, but they still looked like they could have been trimmed.

So getting back to the "point", I suggest you reconsider the principles of determining guilt without solid evidence or proof. I think that is the point the others are trying to make. It is indeed noble to desire to protect others, but be certain that you do not harm an innocent in your quest for justice.

baseballfanatic

One thing in life I will never argue is opinions. Everyone has thier own and are intitled to them. But I will add my 2cents based on fact. Whenever I bid on an item, I always see what else the seller has for sale to see if he (or she) has other items in the same genre. As an example, if one of my keywords I use pop up some obscure seller, I'll check out to see what else he has and its a 50/50 chance he might have a couple of other items that are in the same ballpark as what I'm looking for. This seller is definately no expert in baseball cards as all (or most of the ones I looked at) were in the "graded" catagory on Ebay. The card that was purchased was originally listed with a 5.00 bid or a 29.95 buy it now. It was mixed in with all of his other "hot" cards such as the toughie Dale Murphy 87 DK with a 5.00/15.95 BIN and 94 Bowmans best Ryan Klesko with a 2.00/12.95 BIN. The guy sounds like someone who has a 1990 Fleer baseball set which is only 3 cards short all stored away nicely in plastic sheets in an album, and is waiting to pick up the "Big 3" of Sosa, Clemens and Ripken when he can pick them up at a good price. The seller is definately not someone who is sitting in his basement with a dull razor knife trimming the top of a 77 Bench AS which might net him an extra 50 cents. I have been collecting cards for over 40 years and even I, or any other member here doesnt take out a ruler and measure cards when we are picking through a commons box of modern cards because it just isnt worth the time for 2.50 cents. If you purchased the card from Kruk or Wayne Varner, you would just have to email them and tell them because of the volume of cards they sell, every one isnt taken out and measured before they sell it. When a seller offers a high dollar card and all signs point to "why isnt this in a holder", and you purchase it and it comes back trimmed and the seller offers no refund, then those are the people who have to be neg.ed, but the whole key is communication. All it would have taken was an email. We have ALL been there before. If the seller says tough crap, he gets a neg. If the seller says sorry and wants it returned, you get your money back. This is what happens when you purchase fro over 1 million people on Ebay. Not everyone is an expert. You have to wade through the gray to get to the black and white before you make a decision to buy. You never gave the seller the chance to make good on the transaction. This is why I never leave feedback until I have received it. If the seller hadnt left you feedback, you can bet your bottom dollar you would have communicated with him instead of leaving him an unfair nuetral. If a guy was actually selling trimmed cards to hustle people he DEFINATELY would never leave feedback first....

pandrews

<< <i>I bet if you played pick up B-Ball against only midgets, you would get quite a few uncontested lay ups too, even if nobody was impressed. >>



for what its worth, i would crush midgets in basketball.. i'm like Jordan..