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Ebay Seller wants me to give positive feedback before issuing refund -- Is this Feedback Extortion,
Coinhusker1
Posts: 3,560 ✭
Frankly, it IS extortion. However, the examples given by Ebay only cover buyers wanting "something extra" or they will leave the seller a neg. I cannot find anything covering a situation where a seller requires positive feedback before issuing a refund.
Comments are appreciated.
Comments are appreciated.
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>IMO it is extortion, period. Out the seller.
Russ, NCNE >>
ditto
it may not be in black and white on the site map
but surely ebay would see the extortion going on
needless to say, don't fall for it
However, you shouldn't take it too far. It would be extremely mean to report him for cable theft (www.cabletheft.com). You DEFINITELY should not do anything like that.
Report him to ebay.
ddink's -
"Yes it is. Leave a neg, write his state attorney general's office and the FBI's internet fraud task force, then pursue a credit card chargeback. Saying he will not refund your money until you leave him a positive feedback is extortion IMO. "
might be overkill.
By the way, they have a 3000 rating and mine is only 200. If I decided to be a jerk and leave negative feedback after they gave my refund, the retalitory neg would hurt me more than the neg would hurt them.
NO it is not. I contacted eBay about "2centsin" return policy (must give positive feedback before issuing refund) and eBay said it was NOT feedback extortion
<< <i>might be overkill >>
Maybe, but I'm trying to empathize. If someone had MY money and refused to give it back unless I left them positive feedback, I would consider that to be theft.
<< <i>IMO it is extortion, period. Out the seller.
Russ, NCNE >>
Please out this seller.
<< <i>
<< <i>might be overkill >>
Maybe, but I'm trying to empathize. If someone had MY money and refused to give it back unless I left them positive feedback, I would consider that to be theft. >>
I understand completely and I empathize as well. I've been in a similar situation. I also always try to take the simple route before going at them with both barrels.
Dealing with long distance law enforcement agencies for an ebay transaction gone bad isn't easy. I was told that they do not have the resources to follow-up on all of the internet fraud going on.
Should they get away with it? Absolutely not!
<< <i>...as defined by Ebay? >>
No.
But definitely contact the FBI, especially if it's an $8 coin, and I'm sure they'll get right on it.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>Dealing with long distance law enforcement agencies for an ebay transaction gone bad isn't easy. I was told that they do not have the resources to follow-up on all of the internet fraud going on. >>
Very true, but a phone call or letter from the FBI would be enough to scare the crap out of most scammers--even if they never follow through with an investigation.
<< <i>
<< <i>Dealing with long distance law enforcement agencies for an ebay transaction gone bad isn't easy. I was told that they do not have the resources to follow-up on all of the internet fraud going on. >>
Very true, but a phone call or letter from the FBI would be enough to scare the crap out of most scammers--even if they never follow through with an investigation. >>
Is he a scammer or a seller with a bad feedback policy? He might be a decent guy with a mixed up idea about feedback. Not defending him in any way.
Sounds like if the main objective is to get his money back, maybe he should leave the positive. I don't agree with the policy but it might be the simplist way to get his money back. If it's more a matter of principle, by all means contact the FBI and everyone else.
Of course, he should out the seller and we could all harrass him endlessly.
First, I would not consider the seller a "scammer". They deal primarily in jewelery, and have a few coins to sell now and then. They are just being a pain in the arse.
Their terms of sale state: "All items are sold As-Is unless otherwise stated in the auction. We do however, offer full refunds for any items misrepresented in our listings. "
The coin I bought, a BU silver dollar, looked like it had only a moderate amount of contact marks -- I thought the coin was MS-64, shot 65. Upon seeing the coin in hand, it is marked up pretty severely, probably a MS-61. The lighting in the photo hid the contact marks. I said I wanted a refund because the photo was misleading, and hence "misrepresented" the condition of the coin.
Initially, they said the photo was "not doctored" and represented the coin fairly, but they offered to take it back with a 10% "re-stocking" fee (which was not in the TOS). In my response, I re-iterated the photo was misleading perhaps because of the lighting, and hence should not have to pay the "re-stocking" fee. They then responded with the full refund offer, with the positive feedback first as a condition.
Up until the feedback extortion, all e-mails were polite and businesslike. Actually, if they continued to insist on the re-stocking fee, I would not have liked it, but at that point would have said forget about it and kept the coin. I paid $178 for the coin, and could probably sell it for $150. But now that they are using feedback extortion, I am really ticked off.
So, what do you think? Should I just forget about it (I don't mind losing the $30, but should I let the seller get away with the extortion), or should I report them to Ebay and/or neg them if they do not back down on the extortion?
Well it depends on what you want.
You paid $178 for a coin you say is worth $150 from a seller that stated no returns, because you thought it was going to be worth many times that.
I'm sure no where in the auction did the seller state is was a MS64/shot at 65, he just put up a picture and had no idea what you were going to read into it.
Now you want to return it beacuse it wasn't the rip you planned on. When the seller sold it to you, he had no way of knowing that you thought you were getting a $1,500 coin for $178 and probably isn't interested in running an approval service, so he offered you a refund less a 10% restocking fee.
Now he is willing to give you a full refund on the bid (the buyer in an approval transactions should pay the S/H/I) and sees no reason to give you your money back and then get a negative because the coin was only what it was, and not the rip you thought it should be.
So the seller, who did not misrepresent the coin, offered to make you whole. And in consideration all he is asking is that you don't give him a neg for giving you your money back on an auction that stated NO RETURNS.
So your choices are:
1) If you want your money back, leave him a positive mark for refunding your money on a no refunds auction, send the coin back and move on.
2) Leave him a neg and lose more money on the coin by reselling it
3) Follow the the advice of nut jobs and contact the FBI. This is exactly the type of situation the FBI was formed to deal with.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>OK, here is some additional information.
First, I would not consider the seller a "scammer". They deal primarily in jewelery, and have a few coins to sell now and then. They are just being a pain in the arse.
Their terms of sale state: "All items are sold As-Is unless otherwise stated in the auction. We do however, offer full refunds for any items misrepresented in our listings. "
The coin I bought, a BU silver dollar, looked like it had only a moderate amount of contact marks -- I thought the coin was MS-64, shot 65. Upon seeing the coin in hand, it is marked up pretty severely, probably a MS-61. The lighting in the photo hid the contact marks. I said I wanted a refund because the photo was misleading, and hence "misrepresented" the condition of the coin.
Initially, they said the photo was "not doctored" and represented the coin fairly, but they offered to take it back with a 10% "re-stocking" fee (which was not in the TOS). In my response, I re-iterated the photo was misleading perhaps because of the lighting, and hence should not have to pay the "re-stocking" fee. They then responded with the full refund offer, with the positive feedback first as a condition.
Up until the feedback extortion, all e-mails were polite and businesslike. Actually, if they continued to insist on the re-stocking fee, I would not have liked it, but at that point would have said forget about it and kept the coin. I paid $178 for the coin, and could probably sell it for $150. But now that they are using feedback extortion, I am really ticked off.
So, what do you think? Should I just forget about it (I don't mind losing the $30, but should I let the seller get away with the extortion), or should I report them to Ebay and/or neg them if they do not back down on the extortion? >>
Given all that background, in my opinion, the seller is behaving reasonably, even admirably. They sell jewelry not coins. The coin is BU so it is not misrepresented. As far as I can see they did not promise a MS64/65 coin or even hint at one. They optimize their photography for jewelry not coins. Items sold "as-is" means that buying a raw coin is a total crapshoot and bidders know that going in. If they did not doctor the photo (lighting is very difficult to optimize for BU coins if that is not what you usually sell), they can stand by their original terms and say no refund (and take the probable neg). If they are offering a full refund for a positive feedback, in my opinion, you are getting off easy after rolling snake eyes on your crapshoot.
Personally, I would not bid given those terms and that kind of seller. If forced to bid, I would offer AU money, because photos from non-coin people are rarely representative of the coin.
<< <i>3) Follow the the advice of nut jobs and contact the FBI. This is exactly the type of situation the FBI was formed to deal with. >>
Relayer: he asked for opinions and I gave him mine. Internet fraud (which is what it sounded like to me based on his original post) *is* something that the FBI has taken upon itself to investigate and prosecute. May I ask why you resort to personal insults? Was it necessary to call me a nutjob? Are we incapable of professional conduct on these forums?
Please retract your insult. Thank you.
If you think you are being treated badly and that others should be warned about the seller, keep the coin, take the small loss and leave negative feedback. Otherwise, work things out with him.
<< <i>The new/additional information makes the situation noticeably different and should have been provided at the beginning, when asking for opinions. >>
Definitely agree.
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
In exchange for allowing a return, he wants feedback first.
I believe he has a right to ask that, and if you don't agree to his new terms, he just doesn't have to give you your money back.
You want smoething for nothing; he wants smoething in return.
<< <i>The new/additional information makes the situation noticeably different and should have been provided at the beginning, when asking for opinions.
If you think you are being treated badly and that others should be warned about the seller, keep the coin, take the small loss and leave negative feedback. Otherwise, work things out with him. >>
Mark, I hear what you are saying. In my OP, my inquiry was whether the situation was feedback extortion, so I did not want to tell my "life story" at that point. In response to the comments, I thought the additional info was warranted.
In response to Relayer's comment -- even if the coin turned out to be 63 that would have been fine -- the main reason I liked the coin was some rim toning from the after-market holder -- I was not expecting a "rip". The coin turned out to be a baggy 61, but, fortunately, in this instance, the value is only about $30 less than 63/64 money, which is what I paid.
Anyway, I thought the photo was misleading, so I thought it was reasonable to be able to return the coin based on that their allowing returns "if the item was misrepresented". If the seller honored the return, they would be cultivating a good customer relationship with me, and I would have left positive feedback. If they told me the "re-stock" fee stands, and would have let it go with no feedback. But the "feedback hostage" thing ticked me off, and frankly it is bad business and I will not participate in it.
Here is where I am headed -- I'll just keep the coin and leave no feedback. I'll let them know my feelings about the feedback hostage, but my thinking is a neg may be too harsh --- the feedback hostage is certainly unreasonable, but there likely was no INTENT for fraud.
Thanks for your comments!
<< <i>
Good one, relayer. Nailed it, IMHO.
<< <i>Their terms of sale state: "All items are sold As-Is unless otherwise stated in the auction. We do however, offer full refunds for any items misrepresented in our listings. " >>
Whenever I bid in an auction with those terms, I do so ignoring the second part and assuming no return privilege regardless. It is, frankly, meaningless. Whether or not an item is "misrepresented" is too subjective.
Russ, NCNE