<< <i>i know that one should not be willing to accept a loss, but this person is a national dealer and i think that they should realize that it will be almost impossible to get their asking price or even the price that they paid for it back.
it just sort of made me a little angry that a featured PCGS dealer lies about little costs, by roughly $300 on a fairly common coin. >>
We're getting close. Let me go look at the PCGS featured dealer list.
Maybe this dealer factors certain intangibles into the pricing; time, shop costs, employee costs, travel, show costs etc. It does sound less than truthful, but negotiating is an art of deception in way, not deception in the product, but deception on price, what one is willing to pay, desire, intent etc. If we all took off our poker faces shopping and negotiating for coins think of how much money we would pay, and how little dealers would offer!
Imagine a coin buying scenario where we took off our poker face:
"WOW, would you look at that beautiful coin! I have been looking almost non-stop for six years for an example of this date, and your coin is by far and away the nicest I have ever seen. Why, I have earmarked triple the listed retail values to buy this date at any cost when I found it. So dealer X, what is your asking price"
<< <i>I sold him the coin for x amount of dollars. I offered to buy it from him as a dealer-dealer transaction for x-y dollars, which was a fair price He countered saying he purchased the coin for x+4y at Baltimore, which is untrue. >>
So the price you sold it for was not a fair price since you overcharged y dollars for it.
Since he already overpaid for the coin his actual costs were x + the cost of money of (x) + the opportunity costs of (x).
i was simply asking your opinions on this whole dealer ethics question. as i stated earlier, i feel as if i am now being targeted as a complainer who is mad that I can't get a coin back. I was simply interested in your opinions on this topic about dealers lying about prices. i just thought that it was very discouraging to hear from a well known dealer and to find out he was lying about petty costs (at least to him).
Yu make a bad deal smoetimes you gotta git out the ketchup and eat it. As a collector I don't make a profit on every coin I sell as a dupe or to upgrade but overall I have done quite well thank you! I would assume a dealer does likewise.
"i know that one should not be willing to accept a loss, but this person is a national dealer and i think that they should realize that it will be almost impossible to get their asking price or even the price that they paid for it back.
it just sort of made me a little angry that a featured PCGS dealer lies about little costs, by roughly $300 on a fairly common coin"
Somehow what your doing is ok ? You buried the guy in a coin by going through someone else, why did you not sell it to him directly. Are you a a PCGS dealer? If so it's kind of disturbing that you would engage in deceit of another dealer.
Interesting thread. I get this: Chabot learned the hard way about considering this forum friendly. He was an honest salesperson, but his dealer proved that he wasn't, and a bunch of guys here like to jump on the "devil's advocate" bandwagon. Yep, the dealer probably lied, even considering reasonable intangible costs, but many dealers do "offer to admit their buy price", and it just isn't an accurate reflection of their actual, or "adjusted" buy price. But on the lighter, more forgiving side, maybe some dealers just don't accurately recall very well, ie., maybe there's more than one dealer who goes on the same vacation as the dealer who said "yeah, I got it while on a fishing trip in Canada".
<< <i>"i know that one should not be willing to accept a loss, but this person is a national dealer and i think that they should realize that it will be almost impossible to get their asking price or even the price that they paid for it back.
it just sort of made me a little angry that a featured PCGS dealer lies about little costs, by roughly $300 on a fairly common coin"
Somehow what your doing is ok ? You buried the guy in a coin by going through someone else, why did you not sell it to him directly. Are you a a PCGS dealer? If so it's kind of disturbing that you would engage in deceit of another dealer. >>
he buried himself in the coin. he offered the price that buried himself in it. i sold it to him directly. no i am not a pcgs dealer.
What a dealer paid is not material to the process. You see a coin you want to buy. You offer x amount. If that offer is refused, you go higher or you go your way. All this other stuff sounds like sour grapes to me. If you know what a dealer paid, and you offer less, are you not surprised the offer is refused. Who cares what lie the dealer told about how the price became his asking price. If the dealer refuses to sell for less, you have to pay up or go your way. JMHO.
In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
You say it is a major dealer (who probably buys and sells a lot of coins), maybe the dealer incorrectly recalled the price paid. Maybe the coin was miscoded. Maybe he read his code wrong. Maybe he paid what he did because he thought it would upgrade/cross. He tried upgrading/crossing it a couple of times with no success and has added that cost to his basis. Maybe be bought one of these common coins at Baltimore at x+3y. Then you walked up with another and he only offered you x since he had just bought one. Maybe now he doesn't recall which of these common coins is which.
Why assume a lie? There are so many other possibilities.
<< <i>You say it is a major dealer (who probably buys and sells a lot of coins), maybe the dealer incorrectly recalled the price paid. Maybe the coin was miscoded. Maybe he read his code wrong. Maybe he paid what he did because he thought it would upgrade/cross. He tried upgrading/crossing it a couple of times with no success and has added that cost to his basis. Maybe be bought one of these common coins at Baltimore at x+3y. Then you walked up with another and he only offered you x since he had just bought one. Maybe now he doesn't recall which of these common coins is which.
Why assume a lie? There are so many other possibilities.
WH >>
i do not want to name the dealer, because i think that it would be immature to out someone over this. he may have misread his codes wrong. There was no way this coin would upgrade, it had distinct wear on it and was graded accordingly.
<< <i>I am 19, although I dont see what difference it makes. >>
Ah nothing. I was thinking about the fact that you called yourself a dealer and at the same time was bidding on the YN ONLY auction that Fairlaneman held. Dont get me wrong, its good that you bid it up. But that coin was specifically to be sold to a YN. Not a 19 year old dealer. >>
according to ana standards i am still a YN. in fact i donated more than fairlaneman asked for. i am also hosting a silent auction for the coin this sunday at teh new haven coin show. the proceeds from the coin are going directly to the red cross. how is this bad????????????
<< <i>according to ana standards i am still a YN. in fact i donated more than fairlaneman asked for. i am also hosting a silent auction for the coin this sunday at teh new haven coin show. the proceeds from the coin are going directly to the red cross. how is this bad???????????? >>
You will have to forgive me then. I was under the impression (as well as most others I would assume) that a YN was 18 and under.
<< <i> i do not lie. if someone asks me what i paid for a coin, i will tell them the exact price i paid >>
Or just decline to answer...
No one is saying that a dealer ought to reveal his/her purchase price.
The question of this post is about ethics. A person can be ethical and a good business person, that should be the given. >>
i am saying i have no problem revealing the price i have paid for a coin. if i realize i paid to much, i am happy to take a slight loss or get even money back.
This is how it is. The dealer didn't know who you were. Maybe this was the first call he had on it and wanted one shot at moving it for a profit. What's wrong with that? Or maybe he had a couple of people who had recently expressed interest. It's not that uncommon for a coin to sit for months and then all of a sudden 3 or 4 people show interest in it within the same few days. There's no way he would have bitten at your offer.
But, this is something you may have blown your chance at finding out. What if you had been right up front with this dealer and told him who you were? You could have still offered him the same amount. He might of wanted to unload it! You might be 100% right about the dealer not being worried about taking a small loss. The whole outcome could of been different in a positive way.
Did the dealer lie? Yes. Would the dealer have lied if you had told him who you were? No. Unless this dealer is an imbecile. It's along the same line as keeping your doors locked to keep some of the honest people honest.
Personally, I think both of you belong on Anaconda's "What's A Coin Weenie" thread. You openned up a hole, maybe without knowing it, and he jumped right in. How are you going to tell him the truth now? How's he going to react if you do?
i dont plan on telling him anything. if he lied about this small purchase, how do i know he is not going to lie about future purchases? i did not want the coin back at the price i sold it at. he has had it on his site since i have sold it to him. i figured he would be looking to unload it because he realized he was buried in it.
<< <i> This is how it is. The dealer didn't know who you were. Maybe this was the first call he had on it and wanted one shot at moving it for a profit. What's wrong with that? >>
No problem for that. The problem is that the dealer volunteered a lie. That is the problem.
<< <i> This is how it is. The dealer didn't know who you were. Maybe this was the first call he had on it and wanted one shot at moving it for a profit. What's wrong with that? >>
No problem for that. The problem is that the dealer volunteered a lie. That is the problem.
If thinking that ethics makes one a "weenie".... >>
Why does someone need to know what a dealer paid for a coin anyway? I think most dealers who know what they are doing will want to get fair market value for a coin regardless of what they paid.
Man, things must be slow when a sucky thread like this gets over 100 posts!
oh, getting back to p8nt's post. i won the YN auction because i believe i am still a YN. i will be reposting the coin that i won on my website. all proceeds will be going directly to the Red Cross. Hopefully we can double the price of that coin to help out the people of the gulf states. i will be holding a silent auction this sunday at the new haven coin show in conjunction with my silent internet auction.
I dont think that you get it, listen to WH post if you know anything about business you must consider OVERHEAD in my business it runs about 8 to 10% I am not a coin dealer so I dont know what is standard for the industry. It is called adjusted net cost!! Get over this not telling the truth thing!!
Comments
<< <i>i know that one should not be willing to accept a loss, but this person is a national dealer and i think that they should realize that it will be almost impossible to get their asking price or even the price that they paid for it back.
it just sort of made me a little angry that a featured PCGS dealer lies about little costs, by roughly $300 on a fairly common coin. >>
We're getting close. Let me go look at the PCGS featured dealer list.
Imagine a coin buying scenario where we took off our poker face:
"WOW, would you look at that beautiful coin! I have been looking almost non-stop for six years for an example of this date, and your coin is by far and away the nicest I have ever seen. Why, I have earmarked triple the listed retail values to buy this date at any cost when I found it. So dealer X, what is your asking price"
Tyler
So let me get this straight-
You secretly buried someone in a coin and now your pissed off he won't sell it back to you for less than he paid. This is quite amusing actually.
<< <i>I sold him the coin for x amount of dollars.
I offered to buy it from him as a dealer-dealer transaction for x-y dollars, which was a fair price
He countered saying he purchased the coin for x+4y at Baltimore, which is untrue. >>
So the price you sold it for was not a fair price since you overcharged y dollars for it.
Since he already overpaid for the coin his actual costs were x + the cost of money of (x) + the opportunity costs of (x).
Is that equal to 4y?
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>So let me get this straight-
You secretly buried someone in a coin and now your pissed off he won't sell it back to you for less than he paid. This is quite amusing actually. >>
he offered me a price, straight up. should i tell him that i want a lower price?
it just sort of made me a little angry that a featured PCGS dealer lies about little costs, by roughly $300 on a fairly common coin"
Somehow what your doing is ok ? You buried the guy in a coin by going through someone else, why did you not sell it to him directly. Are you a a PCGS dealer? If so it's kind of disturbing that you would engage in deceit of another dealer.
Oh please tell us it isn't true- a coin dealer lying to another coin dealer it can't be true and very rarely happens.
Your a dealer- stop whining
<< <i>"i know that one should not be willing to accept a loss, but this person is a national dealer and i think that they should realize that it will be almost impossible to get their asking price or even the price that they paid for it back.
it just sort of made me a little angry that a featured PCGS dealer lies about little costs, by roughly $300 on a fairly common coin"
Somehow what your doing is ok ? You buried the guy in a coin by going through someone else, why did you not sell it to him directly. Are you a a PCGS dealer? If so it's kind of disturbing that you would engage in deceit of another dealer. >>
he buried himself in the coin. he offered the price that buried himself in it. i sold it to him directly. no i am not a pcgs dealer.
<< <i>Dealer lying to me!
Oh please tell us it isn't true- a coin dealer lying to another coin dealer it can't be true and very rarely happens.
Your a dealer- stop whining >>
i was never really whining, i was simply stating that i though that this kind of behavior from a recognized dealer was pretty unethical.
Maybe the coin was miscoded.
Maybe he read his code wrong.
Maybe he paid what he did because he thought it would upgrade/cross. He tried upgrading/crossing it a couple of times with no success and has added that cost to his basis.
Maybe be bought one of these common coins at Baltimore at x+3y. Then you walked up with another and he only offered you x since he had just bought one. Maybe now he doesn't recall which of these common coins is which.
Why assume a lie? There are so many other possibilities.
WH
That many of the posts accept that this is a given/accepted/OK is what scares me....
Yes it happens - but would you liked to be lied to? Would you lie?
<< <i>You say it is a major dealer (who probably buys and sells a lot of coins), maybe the dealer incorrectly recalled the price paid.
Maybe the coin was miscoded.
Maybe he read his code wrong.
Maybe he paid what he did because he thought it would upgrade/cross. He tried upgrading/crossing it a couple of times with no success and has added that cost to his basis.
Maybe be bought one of these common coins at Baltimore at x+3y. Then you walked up with another and he only offered you x since he had just bought one. Maybe now he doesn't recall which of these common coins is which.
Why assume a lie? There are so many other possibilities.
WH >>
i do not want to name the dealer, because i think that it would be immature to out someone over this. he may have misread his codes wrong. There was no way this coin would upgrade, it had distinct wear on it and was graded accordingly.
<< <i>What about the question of the dealer who knowingly lies?
That many of the posts accept that this is a given/accepted/OK is what scares me....
Yes it happens - but would you liked to be lied to? Would you lie? >>
<< <i>What about the question of the dealer who knowingly lies? >>
<< <i>That many of the posts accept that this is a given/accepted/OK is what scares me.... >>
<< <i>Yes it happens - but would you liked to be lied to? Would you lie? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am 19, although I dont see what difference it makes. >>
Ah nothing. I was thinking about the fact that you called yourself a dealer and at the same time was bidding on the YN ONLY auction that Fairlaneman held. Dont get me wrong, its good that you bid it up. But that coin was specifically to be sold to a YN. Not a 19 year old dealer. >>
according to ana standards i am still a YN. in fact i donated more than fairlaneman asked for. i am also hosting a silent auction for the coin this sunday at teh new haven coin show. the proceeds from the coin are going directly to the red cross. how is this bad????????????
<< <i>according to ana standards i am still a YN. in fact i donated more than fairlaneman asked for. i am also hosting a silent auction for the coin this sunday at teh new haven coin show. the proceeds from the coin are going directly to the red cross. how is this bad???????????? >>
You will have to forgive me then. I was under the impression (as well as most others I would assume) that a YN was 18 and under.
<< <i> i do not lie. if someone asks me what i paid for a coin, i will tell them the exact price i paid >>
Or just decline to answer...
No one is saying that a dealer ought to reveal his/her purchase price.
The question of this post is about ethics. A person can be ethical and a good business person, that should be the given.
Regular Member $36 $70 $102 $165 $1000
Senior Member (65 & Older) $31 $60 $87 $145 $750
Club Member $36 $72 $108 $180 $1,250
Junior (up to 23rd birthday) $20 $40 $60 $100 $1000
23rd but around here I think it's generally accepted that you must be under 18.
<< <i>
<< <i> i do not lie. if someone asks me what i paid for a coin, i will tell them the exact price i paid >>
Or just decline to answer...
No one is saying that a dealer ought to reveal his/her purchase price.
The question of this post is about ethics. A person can be ethical and a good business person, that should be the given. >>
i am saying i have no problem revealing the price i have paid for a coin. if i realize i paid to much, i am happy to take a slight loss or get even money back.
<< <i>23rd but around here I think it's generally accepted that you must be under 18. >>
"generally accepted"??? No way dude. Take a poll.
But, this is something you may have blown your chance at finding out. What if you had been right up front with this dealer and told him who you were? You could have still offered him the same amount. He might of wanted to unload it! You might be 100% right about the dealer not being worried about taking a small loss. The whole outcome could of been different in a positive way.
Did the dealer lie? Yes. Would the dealer have lied if you had told him who you were? No. Unless this dealer is an imbecile. It's along the same line as keeping your doors locked to keep some of the honest people honest.
Personally, I think both of you belong on Anaconda's "What's A Coin Weenie" thread. You openned up a hole, maybe without knowing it, and he jumped right in. How are you going to tell him the truth now? How's he going to react if you do?
Jerry
<< <i> This is how it is. The dealer didn't know who you were. Maybe this was the first call he had on it and wanted one shot at moving it for a profit. What's wrong with that? >>
No problem for that. The problem is that the dealer volunteered a lie. That is the problem.
If thinking that ethics makes one a "weenie"....
<< <i>
<< <i> This is how it is. The dealer didn't know who you were. Maybe this was the first call he had on it and wanted one shot at moving it for a profit. What's wrong with that? >>
No problem for that. The problem is that the dealer volunteered a lie. That is the problem.
If thinking that ethics makes one a "weenie".... >>
thank you!
<< <i>What about the question of the dealer who knowingly lies? >>
This is not only accepted.... it is EXPECTED!!! (oh yeah, a wink I guess)
Man, things must be slow when a sucky thread like this gets over 100 posts!
edited to correct post count.
Tbig