What happen to crossover grading IDs

GoblinOutpost

Does anyone know what happen to the original ID after a crossover? That is, if I submit a SGC card for crossover at PSA, does PSA notify SGC about the crossover so SGC will remove that ID from its database and adjust the population report? Anyone from PSA care to comment.

What about the case for regrades? I would presume PSA would either 1) issue a new ID and nullify the old ID or 2) just update the old ID with the revised grades. Can someone who did a regrade comment on whether a new ID is issued or not?

I take it that for those of us who would CRACK the case to resubmit (hoping to get a better grade) that the old number would just get forgotten by the owner. Therefore PSA will end up with 2 entries in the database even tho only 1 card exist.

Reason I am asking is to get a better understanding of the accuracy of the population report.

jackstraw

I doubt PSA has the desire to send SGC the flip so they can adjust their pop report?I heard that SGC sends the flips to PSA but what they do with them from there is probably better asked here? Oh you did so lets hold our collecting breaths and wait for their response!
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mikeschmidt

Population Report is not accurate.

after 15 years - cracks, resubmissions, crossovers, it can only be used as a guide.

There is an extreme example in the coin hobby. There is an extremely rare coin to which only five examples are known to exist. However, PCGS has graded a total of nine of that single coin.

Extreme example, sure. There are some guidelines, though that probably make sense.

Very few PSA 9s will be cracked and resubmitted. At least with vintage cards [however you define - let's say pre-1980 here].

Cross-overs *typically* will follow the money. E.G. With modern cards - not too many people will cross over their PSA 9s to SGC 96s. That is not always the rule - as I know a few collectors who have become disenfranchised with PSA's grading of modern sets and are now collecting them in SGC.

Of course there are a bunch of other factors, too. What about GAI? They don't have a population report at all [at least one available to the public] - and odds are high that many of the cards they have graded may have once been in another company's holder.

Some have suggested that PSA/SGC/GAI provide incentives for trading in flips to help keep the population reports more accurate. This is done in the coin world - not in the baseball card one. As someone who has cracked PSA holders before - I certainly would be hesitant to send in old flips, as I would not want my name 'earmarked' at PSA as someone who was a crack-and-resubmitter.

SDavid

As someone who has cracked PSA holders before - I certainly would be hesitant to send in old flips, as I would not want my name 'earmarked' at PSA as someone who was a crack-and-resubmitter.

Do you think they would care, though?

We've all sold graded cards to big submitters or buyers from auction houses on ebay. I would hope PSA is smart enough to know that some of their largest clients are resubmitting cards in large numbers. How else would they get big stacks of all those nice vintage star cards? I think people even witnessed buyers from superior openly doing this at shows back in the day when they were under their previous ownership. I believe I read that on the NW 54 boards a long time ago.

mikeschmidt

<< <i>As someone who has cracked PSA holders before - I certainly would be hesitant to send in old flips, as I would not want my name 'earmarked' at PSA as someone who was a crack-and-resubmitter.

Do you think they would care, though? >>



Probably not - but without any official response, do I want to take that risk? No. Plus - I know fellow collectors who *have* returned flips to PSA, but the population reports were never adjusted. So, it begs the question, is it even worth your time?

We do know that PSA keeps at least some sort of database/reference as to banned submitters, as to those who gets lots of 'evid of trim', etc., so it is entirely plausible that they might keep track of those who continually crack-and-resubmit. But, without incentive or information from PSA - I am left with the "why bother" question, especially if I'm not even confident my efforts will result in PSA adjusting the Population reports.

SDavid

I didn't know psa had any banned submitters. I read that some board members asked Joe about this at one of the past nationals and he said there was no point in banning someone because they could just submit cards through someone else.

Anyway, if they do have a list, it must take a lot to get on it because I know of a few modern dealers who get tons of rejections on every submission.

GoblinOutpost

I agree with most of the responses here so far.

For crossovers, it would be hard press for the companies to send used flips to each other. Kinda like snubbing the other guys. "Look here, our customers don't like what your graders did and they are bringing their business to us now."

For regrades and voluntary return of flips, one would hope the companies would track those. That is of course if their database can support it and there are business processes in place to handle the work (in a very discrete way :-) ). It's definitely not in the company's interest to advertise the amount of obsolete flips. 2 obvious reasons come to mind are customer satisfaction in the grading quality and to a small degree the overall graded population count.

For the collectors, the accuracy of the population "guide" helps in assessing the scarcity of cards. Since the discrepancy only goes one way (overstating the actual population), it can have an effect on collectors' view of the monetary worth $$$.

MIKESCHMIDT mentioned about the flips being handled well in the coin world. Is there a link you can provide to point me that way?