Burned on eBay - so what's new?

Compa

But it happened to me!

I had bought from this seller before and had no problems. And this purchase was a slabbed coin, how could the transaction go bad?

Blame it on PhotoShop!

Check out the auction while the photo is still there > Link

In reality, the coin has several spots on it. The most notable one is at the very front of Lizzy's jewel encrusted hairband. And the editing is obvious when you know what you are looking for! There are several more repaired spots at the base of her bust (on the left).

Now this wasn't some big dollar item. Just a deal I saw and decided to grab. And I'm fairly sure I can get a refund on it. The seller has 970 feedbacks and 100% happy customers and I doubt if he wants to lose that 100%. BUT ... this was a deliberate attempt to deceive and I think he should be punished to the maximum amount that I am able - a solid NEGATIVE. I could care less about returning the nasty coin for a refund. He would just do the same thing to someone else!

Thoughts?

AuldFartte

If the seller will pull that kind of nonsense on you, he deserves his first "neg"

cacheman

Methinks this be a forum member that hangs out on the Open Forum...but perhaps just a si,ilar name.

Compa, PM me his city of origin...

rhound1977

I see the spots you point out in the auction pictures...

If they are a reliable seller, get your refund, and state so in the 'positive' feedback, I have done that once, and there was no hard
feelings between me or the seller. If you get your money back you are doing OK, minus some postage...

Just my 2 cents worth...

lordmarcovan

He is a forum member under the same name. I did business with him last year (bought a US gold coin), and had no problems. Email or PM him. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Without comparison pictures or closeups, I am not prepared to convict him of photo manipulation.

Hope you get satisfaction.

1jester

lordmarcovan

(Addendum to above post): I am assuming this eBay "dukie101" is the same as our own "dukie101" here, though that might not be the case.

worldcoinguy

Maybe I am missing the deliberate attempt at deception.....was the image definitely altered using photoshop? If so, a negative might be warranted. If the pic is just lousy (which I am assuming given the quality of the pic), I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Take the refund out of principle, and keep your distance in the future. A refund should give a good seller a wakeup call to straighten up.

Shouldnt a MS-65 coin in an ANACS holder have fairly clean surfaces with very few spots?

Brent

satootoko

<< <i>In reality, the coin has several spots on it. >>

That doesn't compute for a coin with "lots of eye appeal".

coinpictures

<< <i>But it happened to me!

I had bought from this seller before and had no problems. And this purchase was a slabbed coin, how could the transaction go bad?

Blame it on PhotoShop!

Check out the auction while the photo is still there > Link

In reality, the coin has several spots on it. The most notable one is at the very front of Lizzy's jewel encrusted hairband. And the editing is obvious when you know what you are looking for! There are several more repaired spots at the base of her bust (on the left).

Now this wasn't some big dollar item. Just a deal I saw and decided to grab. And I'm fairly sure I can get a refund on it. The seller has 970 feedbacks and 100% happy customers and I doubt if he wants to lose that 100%. BUT ... this was a deliberate attempt to deceive and I think he should be punished to the maximum amount that I am able - a solid NEGATIVE. I could care less about returning the nasty coin for a refund. He would just do the same thing to someone else!

Thoughts? >>



Ummm.... I don't think the seller did any manipulation in Photoshop. Why? Because I see the spots you are referring to clear as day in the auction pics. Keep in mind that what you see under natural lighting may be more or less apparent than in a given picture, depending on how the picture was taken. Trust me, with the trial and error I've been going through trying to take decent coin pictures, it is very easy to unintentially decrease or increase defects, just in the manner/setup of photography.

Given the seller's feedback rating, I would easily give him the benefit of the doubt.

-Dan

Compa

Please notice that the spot is round and dark - the area of the spot in the auction photo is square and light!

Silvereagle82

I too see the spots you have described on the ebay photos.
How can you say he deceived you ???:confused

Compa

I really can't believe how forgiving some of you seem to be! Maybe this is why the scum stay on eBay - eveyone is too forgiving to give out negs.

Even based on the text of the auction:


<< <i>CERTIFIED BY ANACS AS MS65. NICE COIN WITH LOTS OF EYE APPEAL. >>



I would consider it deception to not disclose that it had "turned" in the holder. This coin does not have LOTS OF EYE APPEAL by any definition - your eye is immediately drawn to the spot.

The photo appears to be a poor PhotoShop editing job.

Either one of these 2 things puts this guy among the bad sellers in my book - not the worst of them but no way is he a good guy!

lordmarcovan

I don't see any manipulation.

Sure, the spot is a different color and maybe is a different shape, but it is in the same place in both pics.

I suspect it's just a difference in lighting/camera angle/settings or something like that, rather than a blatant attempt to mislead.

If I wanted to be dishonest and edit a picture, I would have removed the spot completely.

I think you might be cryin' wolf here, but then again, you have the coin in hand to compare to the auction photos and we don't.
Still insufficient evidence. What else ya got?

(Oh, yeah- you're right- the "LOTS OF EYE APPEAL" is a stretch. But it's fairly standard hype.)

spinaker2000

Much-a-do-about -nothing. It's a slabbed $15 coin.

Aethelred

I don't see any reason a person wanting to edit a photo would change a brown spot to a white one. I have taken photos where dark spots look white due to lighting, so I understand how this happened. If it were me I would ask for a refund and just not leave any feedback at all. With the feedback rating the seller has I doubt he is trying to cheat anyone, he is just not a very good photographer.

wildjag

Alright I see the photos now. And the spots are all over in the photo. I would write it off as a learning experience since its a low dollar coin.

coinpictures

Compa, I'm sorry but I think you are WAAAAAAAAAY overreacting, and are ascribing negative motive to the seller where none may exist.

I've worked with Adobe Photoshop for over a decade now (I work in the printing industry), and it would be very easy to make the spots disappear entirely, which the seller clearly did not do. You would not use Photoshop to "diminish" or "alter" the spots.

I blame it on the lighting of the photo.

Do a search here on the board for the three different pictures of the same proof Kennedy half dollar. No editing was done, simply different lighting/shooting conditions. It's shocking.

Request a return from the seller, and I'd be willing to bet he would accommodate you.

No matter how you slice it though, this does NOT warrant a negative (unless he is unwilling to allow you to return the coin).

Because coin photography is so variable, and aesthetics are a very subjective thing (of course any seller is going to word the auction in the most favorable terms), a return privilege is a necessity whenever bidding/buying online.

-Dan

P.S. Another thing to keep in mind, especially if the image is a JPEG or was ever converted to JPEG en route to a GIF, PNG, or BMP: MPEG artifacting exhibits itself as square blockiness in certain portions of the image. This could contribute to the seemingly different spots (especially since the ones in your pics are at a much higher resolution than the original auction pics).

SYRACUSIAN

I totally disagree, there was no attempt or intention to deceive. The problems you refer to are slightly evident in the scan, remember it is a scan and that's as far as scans go, the coin is slabbed MS65 and the eye appeal he refers to is totally objective.Let alone that you got the coin for slightly above slabbing fees ,although this does not matter here.No photoshop has been used IMO,it's just a low resolution scan.

We seem to share views with coinpictures on these subjects, sorry compa but it would be outrageous to leave a neg to this guy,forum member or not .



edited to add:it is my experience that small dark spots often show the exact opposite in scans

hyperizer

It looks like he might have used the clone tool. Maybe he re-used a photo by the person he bought it from? Just email him and see what the deal is before doing anything.

SYRACUSIAN

Here's another example of how a dark grey spot appears lighter than this copper-nickel coin's colour:





Look at the area between 4 and 5 o'clock, and in particular around the letters. What seems to be a slight discoloration, lighter than the coin's grey colour, was in fact a very dark ,annoying and rather large spot. I scanned this coin about 10 times but the result was always identical. It was sold on ebay around 5 months ago, this is a reduced version of the original scan due to PCGS' 50kb limit. In this case and as it was a $250 coin, the buyer (who happened to know me) actually called me a day before the auction closed and I explained the problem to him in detail. He sniped the coin at the end and left an enthusiastic feedback.

Dukie101

Now this wasn't some big dollar item. Just a deal I saw and decided to grab. And I'm fairly sure I can get a refund on it. The seller has 970 feedbacks and 100% happy customers and I doubt if he wants to lose that 100%. BUT ... this was a deliberate attempt to deceive and I think he should be punished to the maximum amount that I am able - a solid NEGATIVE. I could care less about returning the nasty coin for a refund. He would just do the same thing to someone else!

First of all let me say that I don't alter, doctor scans in any form or fashion and If I did it wouldn't be on a $15.00 coin.

I have been on these boards for over 5 years. I have bought and sold here and ebay and never had a problem. You have not communicated in any form or fashion directly to me about this problem. I will not try to defend all of your slanderous accusations on this board. My record speaks for itself. By the way check your paypal account--your $15.00 + postage has been refunded. Please keep the coin as a gift. Apparently you need the $15.00 more than I do.

I appreciate the comments from some of you here but not all(the ones piling on before they got all the facts).


$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00$15.00 $15.00


BIG DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




ebay stuff

lordmarcovan

(gavel bangs twice)

Case dismissed.

Compa

There is no way that I can swear that the photo was manipulated - it simply appears that it may have been. Poor use of the cloning tool in PhotoShop would produce similar results. And there are a myriad of other ways to screw things up in PhotoShop.

BTW ... I've worked at an advertising agency for the last 15 years and I am quite a photography buff. I am a bit more than somewhat familiar with digital editing, but I admit I hadn't considered the effect of scanning the coin.

I can swear that the description of the coin is deceptive. The coin only has "Lots of Eye Appeal" if one has a thing for spots!

Now as to what to do about it ... the coin isn't worth my time to return so maybe I'll just wait a few weeks and see how I feel about it. I can give feedback up to 90 days after an auction ends and if I do decide to give negative feedback it will be 89 days after the end of the auction anyway (prevents reprisals).

lordmarcovan

Compa, did you even read the post above mine?

You don't have to return it. He gave it to you. AND refunded your money.

Compa

The seller's word is good at least as far as the refund. I have a credit of $18.50 on my PayPal account.

Thank you.

But I did email him with my complaint.

These boards may be faster than email servers it appears.

Compa

Yes, Robert. I read the post above yours. But only after making my post since it wasn't there while I was composing my post.

Dukie101

But I did email him with my complaint.

Just recently,after you posted all this garbage.


Date: 9/6/2005 10:49:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: jim.ebay@jbs-blog.com

BigAlan

I don't think there was any effort to deceive by manipulating the image, that coin's just not worth the effort. If it was worth the effort then a much better job could have been done. When you received the coin you should have emailed the seller "I don't like it. Can I return it?"

If the answer had been "No, you can't" then you might have had a complaint on "LOTS OF EYE APPEAL."

secondrepublic

Not sure what you expected from a late 1980's coin graded 65 by ANACS for about $15. It's not a 67 or 68 coin. Especially with more modern issues, you can't expect a perfect coin in a 65 slab. More realistically you would expect a few minor contact marks. By my lights, some toning spots are less worrisome than contact marks. It's all in the eye of the beholder, though. Ask him for a refund and see what happens. He should be happy to refund you the money rather than get a negative feedback, especially over such a small deal.

Compa

Pick Pick Pick

I don't care when you got the email - this is when I sent it: http://www.jbs-blog.com/images/offsite/Untitled-1.bmp <<< warning: rather large!

As long as we don't drop down to name calling, I'm satisfied. I'll donate the coin to a YN at the next coin club meeting I attend.

coinpictures

Sorry, I'm going to take it a step further. This thread leaves a very foul taste in my mouth, and it's not from any action on the part of the seller. In fact I think the seller is owed a heartfelt apology for the obviously rush-to-judgment smear tactics.

-Dan

bj1648

Compa you're an idiot and an a-hole.

Dukie101

One of the good things about this board is being able to buy and sell,trade coins, either direct with member,ebay or shows etc. It's knowing who you are dealing with, and yes reputation means a lot to anyone that's worth his or her salt. I have never been attacked,slandered like I have been on this thread. I would have suggested that this person could have emailed me prior to this thread being posted,or better yet instead of starting a slander thread,just asked for references. In 5 years I have been asked for a refund twice.this is the second time. To imply that someone misrepresented a $15.00 coin is ludicrous----what did I have to gain??? It cost that to slab the coin. Pictures were not altered,desciption was as I saw the coin and to be honest I did not notice the spots,I didn't look real hard either. I belive this person demostrated the worst in anyone by jumping the gun with accusations and slander prior to notifying me of any problem. I also belive that some responders demostrated the same with their post. Others supported my position without any imput from me,and I appreciate that. I do this as a hobby. I am not a dealer(nothing wrong with dealers either). I hope the orignator of this post has enjoyed his slanderous remarks.

MacCrimmon

Whatever happened to private correspondence?

Lynch

I don't know Dukie101 and have never done business with him.

I will say that I think he has shown considerable class and self-restraint in this matter. I'd be furious if I were in his shoes.

hyperizer

I agree with Lynch!

Kurt4

Thumbs up Dukie 101. I've never bought from you, but I'll keep an eye on your auctions from now on. The high road you took just confirms to me that you are a trustworthy seller.

Preussen

<< <i>One of the good things about this board is being able to buy and sell,trade coins, either direct with member,ebay or shows etc. It's knowing who you are dealing with, and yes reputation means a lot to anyone that's worth his or her salt. I have never been attacked,slandered like I have been on this thread. I would have suggested that this person could have emailed me prior to this thread being posted,or better yet instead of starting a slander thread,just asked for references. In 5 years I have been asked for a refund twice.this is the second time. To imply that someone misrepresented a $15.00 coin is ludicrous----what did I have to gain??? It cost that to slab the coin. Pictures were not altered,desciption was as I saw the coin and to be honest I did not notice the spots,I didn't look real hard either. I belive this person demostrated the worst in anyone by jumping the gun with accusations and slander prior to notifying me of any problem. I also belive that some responders demostrated the same with their post. Others supported my position without any imput from me,and I appreciate that. I do this as a hobby. I am not a dealer(nothing wrong with dealers either). I hope the orignator of this post has enjoyed his slanderous remarks. >>



- Preussen

Justhavingfun

Well done Dukie 101! I like your swift resolution of the complaint.

That's the way to end an otherwise nasty thread.

Best wishes,


Just Having Fun

Justhavingfun

Hello Compa and one more thought on this: Dukie 101 did the right thing on this. He resolved your complaint as fully as possible.

Now, why don't you do resolve his complaint about you -- that you jumped the gun and hosed him without giving him a chance to make it good? Do the right thing and withdraw the original ugly accusation. Fair's fair, eh?

Best wishes,


Just Having Fun

lordmarcovan

Dukie101 deserves a light scolding for the "eye appeal" hype, but otherwise has been proven innocent and did the right thing.

Aethelred

I just placed a bid on one od Duke101's auctions. It is obvious to me that he is an honest person and that he stands by what he sells.