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Deutschland, Deutschland, Über Alles!
coinpictures
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Just received my first order from Ron Guth today. When I spoke with Ron, he seemed quite a nice chap. The coins were shipped promptly and well packaged. Not to be overly critical, but there are two things I dislike about his website: (1) there are no pictures for any of the coins, so you're buying blind, and (2) while he indicates when pages have been updated, he doesn't indicate which coins are the new entries, which makes browsing a bit cumbersome. I understand that he's a REAL busy guy, so I'll cut him some slack. 
He offers a no-questions-asked return policy, so you're not at big risk.
I don't think you're going to find a lot of "steals" on his price lists. He obviously knows the area and the prices that pieces should bring. By the same token, his prices are not outrageous by any stretch of the imagination. As one who is used to paying 50% of Krause or less, the prices are higher than I'm used to, BUT I'm also getting higher-grade pieces than I usually buy.
Being my first order, I opted to stick strictly with slabbed material (which I'm leaning towards in general anyway), and relatively low-dollar coins (the most expensive coin below was $113). As you can see below, you can get some nice stuff for not too much money.
Very positive experience, and I'm sure I'll be ordering again.
-Dan
He offers a no-questions-asked return policy, so you're not at big risk.
I don't think you're going to find a lot of "steals" on his price lists. He obviously knows the area and the prices that pieces should bring. By the same token, his prices are not outrageous by any stretch of the imagination. As one who is used to paying 50% of Krause or less, the prices are higher than I'm used to, BUT I'm also getting higher-grade pieces than I usually buy.
Being my first order, I opted to stick strictly with slabbed material (which I'm leaning towards in general anyway), and relatively low-dollar coins (the most expensive coin below was $113). As you can see below, you can get some nice stuff for not too much money.
Very positive experience, and I'm sure I'll be ordering again.
-Dan
- Germany. 1 Mark. 1915E. PCGS MS65. Cost: $27.00
- Germany. 5 Pfennig. 1906A NGC PF66. Cost: $113.00
- Germany. 1/2 Mark. 1916F. PCGS MS65. Cost: $18.00. I dig the toning on this one.
- Baden. 6 Kreuzer. 1840. NGC MS66. Cost: $67.50. The obverse is a bit grimey for my tastes, but to make up for it, it has a lovely repunched 1 in the date.
- Saxony. 1/6 Thaler. 1865B. NGC MS66. Cost: $72.00
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DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>Guth is also a PCGS grader. >>
Ron is the Director of Numismatic Research for PCGS. I don't think he is an official grader, but I'd guess that he does provide some input from time-to-time. I know that Ron was instrumental in the success of my recent "Presidential Review" of a Mint State 1771 Prussian Thaler that PCGS initially misgraded as AU-58. It is now (still conservatively) graded as MS-62. - Preussen
How can I contact Ron Guth ?
<< <i>Nice coins!
How can a contact Ron Guth ? >>
Easy...just click - Preussen
Steve
<< <i>can't say I'm a fan of the headline chosen from this thread, "Deutschland, Deutschland, Über Alles!" The song this comes from has a pretty checkered history >>
That's what makes history so interesting. Personally, I think the "headline" is just fine. - Preussen
<< <i>
<< <i>can't say I'm a fan of the headline chosen from this thread, "Deutschland, Deutschland, Über Alles!" The song this comes from has a pretty checkered history >>
That's what makes history so interesting. Personally, I think the "headline" is just fine. - Preussen >>
<< <i>Since you are students of history, you should be well aware of historical uses of the phrase "Deutschland Uber Alles" without needing my explanation. >>
Some history for you Link How is this different from saying the Pledge of Allegience. I find it strange that you find the title offensive regarding a patriotic German song.
The "official" name of the German National Anthem is Das Lied der Deutschen, or simply, Das Deutschlandlied. The song is often called Deutschland ueber Alles, simply because those are the opening words of the first stanza. It is virtually unknown today that the expression "über alles", or "before all [others]" refers not to the conquest or enslavement of other countries or the establishment of German hegemony over other peoples, but rather to a call for all Germans to abandon their concept of being a subject or citizen of this or that principality or region (such as Bavaria or Prussia) and to realize the common bond they had with one another by simply being German. This concept was considered "revolutionary" at the time the words were written in 1841, since loyalty to "Germany" was considered by the princelings and kings of the disunited Reich (divided into 40-plus separate states) to be disloyalty to themselves. This "All-German" idea was suspect because it was also associated with the rising middle classes and their suppressed Frankfurt assembly of 1848.
<< <i>Since you are students of history, you should be well aware of historical uses of the phrase "Deutschland Uber Alles" without needing my explanation. >>
With all respect, I don't see where anyone has asked for the benefit of your explanation. No one is knocking you, your collecting interests, nationality or ancestry, so don't start preaching. Chill, huh? - Preussen
<< <i>Since you are students of history, you should be well aware of historical uses of the phrase "Deutschland Uber Alles" without needing my explanation. >>
I'll be damned if I'll apologize for being proud of my German heritage. As others have mentioned, the Anthem and the phrase signify far more than the narrow context in which you are taking it.
My mother's family came to the U.S. from Germany in 1922, in the throes of the Post-WWI depression. The things they endured (have YOU ever had to eat rats to stay alive?) and the work they had to undertake to make a better life here in the U.S. is so far beyond the experiences of the vast majority of us today (myself included), that it defies comparison.
Am I proud of them and of my German background? You'd better believe it.
I know it's politically correct in many circles to paint all Germans and all eras of Germany with a broad negative brush. Its the same type of idiocy that also claims that Southerners cannot be proud of their heritage, or anyone that isn't a "minority" can NEVER be proud of their heritage because they are inherently racist.
It's a bunch of whiney bullspit!
Anyone and everyone has the right to be proud of their heritage, no matter what anyone else thinks.
If that offends you, too bad.
Have a nice day.
-Dan
P.S. Sorry for the rant, but he struck a nerve...
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I'll buy some coins from him when I got my payment
Are these reasons for you to feel bad about your ancestry? No. The Germans have, with some exceptions, a really amazing history and there is a lot to be proud of. Just like with any country, there is good and bad. I am not proud of every element of Polish history, and nor do I feel the need to defend it. You can be proud of your past without trying to be proud of everything your country has ever done. You can be proud to be a Southerner without being proud of slavery. You can be proud of the U.S. role in WWII without defending the internment of the Japanese-Americans. I don't harbor any grudge toward the Germans; I studied German for 7 years in high school and college, have been to both Austria and Germany, and am lucky enough to drive a great German car. But part of my comfort with the Germans is that they, unlike most other countries, have tried to make amends for the bad stuff that happened during WWII. My great uncle, for example, used to get checks from the German government as a sort of pension for his wartime labor. Not a lot of money, but symbolically important.
My understanding is that the first two stanzas of the German national anthem are not sung any more. Only the third stanza is allowed to be sung Germany. The first two stanzas with the words "Deutschland Deutschland Uber Alles" are basically banned in Germany because of the wartime use of this song in the German conquest of the east toward the historic rivers mentioned in those songs. The German government feels strongly enough about this song to essentially ban the Deutschland Uber Alles parts - are they wrong? I don't want to get into an argument about the song; I'm sure it's history goes even further back beyond WWII. But so what - the swastika is also an ancient symbol, I believe from India. So does that mean it's okay to display a swastika, too? Words and symbols have meanings which you can't ignore. I don't think it's inappropriate for me to point this out. Go and run a search on the phrase Deutschland Uber Alles and see how many white supremacist websites come up.
Bottom line, you should be proud of your history. Germany is a great country and its list of accomplishments is long - a lot longer than that of most other countries. But don't try to defend every element of it.
<< <i>I don't think it's inappropriate for me to point this out. Bottom line, you should be proud of your history. But don't try to defend every element of it. >>
1. I didn't ask, nor did I need you to "point this out."
2. I don't recall signing up for the lecture...especially one given by some unhappy, self-righteous (or is it self-loathing?) individual with an axe to grind, even if you are just sooo smart! Clearly, your mastery of Google indicates a higher intelligence!
3. But hey, thanks for giving me your permission to be proud of my heritage. It means so much coming from you.
4. Deutschland, Deutschland, Über Alles!
Edited to add: My (Scots-Irish) 5th Great Grandfather was killed by Indians during the French & Indian Wars; does that mean that Native Americans should be ashamed of their heritage? What about those "shameful" British who killed so many of my (Scots-Irish AND German)ancestors during the Revolutuonary War & War of 1812?
- Preussen
<< <i>But so what - the swastika is also an ancient symbol, I believe from India. So does that mean it's okay to display a swastika, too? >>
Depending on the context, yes. I have several good luck tokens and charms that long predate the Nazi movement (I believe the arms of the swastika point the opposite direction though) and would have no problem displaying them in the proper environment (display, collection, etc.). If people are offended through their ignorance, that is not MY problem.
[Tangent: Remember the employee in Washington D.C. several years back that was fired because he used the word "n*ggardly" in correct context (stingy, miserly) and a black person took offense because it sounded like "n*gger". While the employee ultimately got his job back, it was a travesty, and the employee was still villafied because "he should have known better." Stupidity at its most extreme, yet political correctness keeps the powers that be from calling out idiocy for what it is. What's next, will I be banned from the board because I use the word "bike" and that sounds like "kike"? (no offense intended, just illustrating the absurdity that people get away with)].
I find it ironic that this message board will not allow me to post either of the two above words uncensored. Again, censorship in the name of political correctness.
<< <i>Words and symbols have meanings which you can't ignore. I don't think it's inappropriate for me to point this out. Go and run a search on the phrase Deutschland Uber Alles and see how many white supremacist websites come up. >>
I'm sorry, but I disagree. Vehemently. Just because some fascist wingnuts have co-opted lyrics or a song is NOT an excuse for censorship. That allows them to win. That gives them the power.
<< <i>But don't try to defend every element of it. >>
This statement disturbs me. The unwritten implication is that there is an aspect I *should* be ashamed of, no matter whether my family was associated with said atrocities or not.
Why wallow in the negatives of the past? Where does it end? All black people must now be ashamed because at some point in their distant past, a member of a tribe from which they descended sold a member of another tribe to white slavers. Anyone living in the U.S. should be ashamed because Christopher Columbus brought disease to the new world. Anyone of European origin should be ashamed for the Inquisition... the Crusades... serfdom.
Enough!
I have enough of my own conduct to ultimately be ashamed of, let alone that of ancestors or people of the same skin or hair color.
-Dan
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