78 Molitor RC BVG 9.5...What's wrong w/it

natetrook

Any Molitor experts or 1978 experts out there?

Why is this card in a BVG holder?


Molitor RC

zef204

A) It may be sheet cut, which PSA won't grade, and if not, because for some STUPID reason, BVG 9.5's sell for WAYYYYY more than PSA 10's. This is going to sell for a mint!

bsfastball

Sell for more? I would be shocked if it even brought half of what a PSA 10 would bring. I trust a vintage BGS graded card about as far as I can throw the good Dr. B. The only exception to that are BGS-graded cards that were graded before BVG came around, those are generally undergraded and legit.

pandrews

<< <i>Sell for more? I would be shocked if it even brought half of what a PSA 10 would bring. >>



prepare to be shocked..

zef204

Yep. Thank you Perry. Look at the past BGS 9.5 86 TT Bonds. People, mostly not the seasoned collectors, hold the BVG/BGS 9.5 on cards older than 1986(may be closer to 1990 but I have nothing to back this up) to be the holy grail of cards. In 2 years they will not be able to sell their 9.5 for what a PSA 10 would yield.

mmoin

Zef, are you sure about that? BGS 9.5 sell for crazy amounts, usually more than PSA 10's of the same card, but I don't believe the same is true of most BVG-graded cards.

Andrew

zef204

mmoin- no I am not sure. They do not come up for auction often at least that I have seen. But we will see with this card if what I think will happen actually will. However this "I would be shocked if it even brought half of what a PSA 10 would bring" will just be an awakening.

brianwintersfan

Sweet card

mikeschmidt

I would say danger of sheet cut.

Stingray

That card is nice, no smudging on the bottom. What is up with BVG 9.5s, man I saw ton of those at the National, but mostly they were modern cards.

Stingray

julen23

I could say why not have the card graded by PSA thereby getting more $$$, but this may sell for just as much being in Becket holder huh?

Julen

jrdolan

BVG is a more reputable grade than BGS, not the other way round. BVG is for "vintage" -- which for Beckett is pre-1981 or thereabouts, I believe. BGS is for modern. Now, within Beckett Nation, BGS is no doubt more highly regarded simply because 98% of Beckett cards are modern and thus in BGS holders. Many vintage collectors look down on modern "crap" and the reverse is true in much of the Beckett world. Anything in a BVG holder is for the old folks. George Brett rookie? Huh, does it have an atomic refractor version?

In the broader view, BVG is less likely than BGS to hold a trimmed card or an overgraded card, but unfortunately just as likely to hold a sheet-cut card. And now, given developments over there in the past 8 months, I would regard a 9.5 from either BGS or BVG as being no better than 9.

If you're wondering what developments? ... the "ton" of BGS and BVG 9.5's on display at the National and on eBay any given day this summer will offer a hint.

ldferg

ending in a few. as pandrews said "be prepared" to be shocked...

bsfastball

<---- shocked. I had always thought the BGS premium on 9.5's vs. PSA 10's only went back to '86, and from them back PSA 10's commanded more. I dont really trust vintage BGS, but apparently I'm in the minority. Anyone know what the last PSA 10 of this card went for?

jmbkb4

Good Lord. What do PSA 10's usually go for? It will be humorous to watch as BGS/BVG and PSA merge in value over time. And those that bought BGS will be gnashing their teeth.......

Here's what the last PSA 10 of this card sold for ($1,000), approximately 40% of what the BVG just did ($2625). Ouch.

zef204

<< <i>for some STUPID reason, BVG 9.5's sell for WAYYYYY more than PSA 10's. This is going to sell for a mint! >>

I believe I called this one! Crazy stuff...

rbdjr1

There was a 70s OPC Willie Mays BVG 9.5 that was "hammered" at a nice price, also by Mintxpress, I think last month. I had a small $500 bid on the card, and asked for help here in this thread if I should continue to bid on the item.

I received a "ton of help", must of you telling me I'm throwing my money away on the card! The OPC was just "too perfect" for a 70s OPC card. In fact, it looked perfect!

Well, I wrote mintxpress "expressing my concerns". I told him I was retracting my small bid of $500, and explained that I knew the card would sell for a "ton more" than my small retracted bid.

I guess Mintxpress was mad at me, and "banned me from bidding" on any of his auctions.

What I didn't understand, was that my small bid was not a big deal. I think he banned me for posting on this thread and bringing attention to others about these so-called "perfect '70s OPCs" graded 9.5 by BVG.

Oh well!

rbd

sagard

<< <i>Good Lord. What do PSA 10's usually go for? It will be humorous to watch as BGS/BVG and PSA merge in value over time. And those that bought BGS will be gnashing their teeth.......

Here's what the last PSA 10 of this card sold for ($1,000), approximately 40% of what the BVG just did ($2625). Ouch. >>



This isn't a fair example. The person who hit the BIN was VERY lucky to be the first to find it. Only 2 Hours into the listing. It may not actually have changed hands if the seller realized his huge mistake.

julen23

$1000 for psa 10, talk about foresight.

power to you .

Julen

jmbkb4

<< <i>

<< <i>Good Lord. What do PSA 10's usually go for? It will be humorous to watch as BGS/BVG and PSA merge in value over time. And those that bought BGS will be gnashing their teeth.......

Here's what the last PSA 10 of this card sold for ($1,000), approximately 40% of what the BVG just did ($2625). Ouch. >>



This isn't a fair example. The person who hit the BIN was VERY lucky to be the first to find it. Only 2 Hours into the listing. It may not actually have changed hands if the seller realized his huge mistake. >>


Disagree with you. This just shows how overvalued BGS/BVG cards are. A card is worth what it sells for, maybe...........

packCollector

the only reason these cards get sent to mintexpress is so that the bidders don't know who the actual seller is. why else would someone with this type of card pay them 25% to sell it? they don;t get higher hammer prices as most diehard graded collectors look at them as a dumping ground for questionable cards. the card is most likely from a sheet just like all the other high grade 60's and 70's cards in bvg holders sold through mintexpress.

sagard

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Good Lord. What do PSA 10's usually go for? It will be humorous to watch as BGS/BVG and PSA merge in value over time. And those that bought BGS will be gnashing their teeth.......

Here's what the last PSA 10 of this card sold for ($1,000), approximately 40% of what the BVG just did ($2625). Ouch. >>



This isn't a fair example. The person who hit the BIN was VERY lucky to be the first to find it. Only 2 Hours into the listing. It may not actually have changed hands if the seller realized his huge mistake. >>


Disagree with you. This just shows how overvalued BGS/BVG cards are. A card is worth what it sells for, maybe........... >>

SDavid

why else would someone with this type of card pay them 25% to sell it?

When I looked at his website, it said 5-10%.


they don;t get higher hammer prices as most diehard graded collectors look at them as a dumping ground for questionable cards.

Are you saying this includes his psa cards, which form the majority of his auctions? If not, then why are those cards consigned to him?

zef204

<< <i>as most diehard graded collectors look at them as a dumping ground for questionable cards >>

Out of the 72 auctions of theirs that closed recently, 67 were PSA cards. Are these the questionable cards that get dumpped there?

packCollector

when I see a high grade bgs and gai card in their auctions , the 1st thing that comes to my mind is it is their for a reason , i don't know about their psa cards, especially since the cards in the bvg and gai holders are many times of questionable issues like vintage opc cards that there is not way they aren't from a sheet . I just looked at his website and I was wrong on his fees. I bought 2 cheap cards from them a few years ago and i remember the psa form they sent with the cards and the 20 or 25% rate . it looks like they have come way down on the fees. I still don't bother with them because their service was awful in my 2 transactions and I have heard that from many other buyers. perhaps they have changed their ways but initial impressions are tough to break.

to not get off track , the bvg card is most likely cut from a sheet which is why it is in a bvg holder and why it was consigned to them. i don't think anyone will debate that fact

Ahmanfan

I don't get this apparantly...

Everyone is debating 'why is the card in a BVG holder and not a PSA holder? What's wrong with it?"

Maybe the reason for the BGS holder is the fact that it will go for a ton more than in a PSA 10...

Hell, if I had a card, and I could choose sticking it in a BGS holder to sell for 2500 or in a PSA holder to sell for 1500, I know what I'd do. I wouldn't care if some people thought it was questionable since it was in a Beckett holder, I'd have $1000 more in my pocket. Am I the only one thinking this?

regards
John

jmbkb4

John,

This has been my point. Don't there is anything inherently evil about BGS/BVG. Because Beckett has a fancier holder, a PERCEIVED tougher grade, and control of prices (i.e., Beckett(R) magazines), their cards currently sell for far more than PSA/SGC counterparts.

I do feel that this discrepancy cannot be maintained, however, and collectors that are paying 1.5-2.5X for the Beckett holder will be regretting the decision in 3-5 years when prices equilibrate.

Boopotts

<< <i>

Hell, if I had a card, and I could choose sticking it in a BGS holder to sell for 2500 or in a PSA holder to sell for 1500, I know what I'd do. I wouldn't care if some people thought it was questionable since it was in a Beckett holder, I'd have $1000 more in my pocket. Am I the only one thinking this?

regards
John >>




You're assuming the owner has a choice as to which holder he can have the card in.

Ahmanfan

Seems funny to me that someone would send it to psa first, thinking "I sure hope it gets in their holder so I can get $1500 for this baby, and wont be stuck with it in a BVG holder that'll fetch 2500"

hah

regards
John

rbdjr1

<< <i>Seems funny to me that someone would send it to psa first, thinking "I sure hope it gets in their holder so I can get $1500 for this baby, and wont be stuck with it in a BVG holder that'll fetch 2500"

hah

regards
John >>



John, the point of the matter is the card "factory cut" or some "after market cut"? ...that could make one very sorry who paid $ 2,500.00 to find out that their "rare BVG 9.5 gem", is nothing more than a "street/sheet-cut piece of cardboard", not even able to get a grade from PSA!

edit: John I would agree with you only if the card would grade legit from both PSA and BVG, as a seller, one would like to see 2500 over 1000-1500 anytime. But what if, $2500 vs ZERO? LOL!

rbd

#1 100% - 1961 Nu-Card FB
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...and more!

Ahmanfan

Yes, that would be unfortunate if that is the case. I sure hope it is not.

regards
John

Boopotts

The fact that the surface subgrade is the lowest is a dead giveaway that it's a sheet cut.