Poll: To slab or not to slab that is the question!

fsjeter

The recent thread on the trimmed 1952 Topps Mantle made me think of something. What if grading companies went ahead and slabbed all trimmed cards instead of returning them unslabbed with "evidence of trimming." Do you think that having to remove the card from a slab will deter scammers from sending the card to multiple grading companies until one bites?

Scott

smallstocks

Even if they slab them, the scammers will break it out and sell it as authentic and untrimmed.

Mike

packCollector

I answered "no it won't have an effect one way or the other" but in cases where the authenticity is also important like the 52 mantle or a 41 playball williams and dimaggio then they should be slabbed authentic so the buyer can have a piece of mind they are not getting a counterfeit . A trimmed 1975 george brett would be a waste of plastic

fsjeter

<<Even if they slab them, the scammers will break it out and sell it as authentic and untrimmed.>>

But don't you think constantly removing it from the different slabs would increase the likelihood the card could/would be damaged in addition to being trimmed? Making it less desirable if they try to sell it raw without having to remove it. Just a thought.

Scott


Edited to add: Some people are skilled at removing cards from slabs and some people are not. I, for one, have never removed a card from a slab so I would probably butcher it if I tried.

packCollector

I think if you have the skill to alter/enhance the card , you will not have a problem breaking it out. once you get the technique of breaking slabs the probability of damaging a card is almost 0

ctsoxfan

Nothing is going to deter the very persistent card doctors out there. They will simply keep cracking them out, until they slip one past. It's a good concept, but it would never work.

fsjeter

<<Nothing is going to deter the very persistent card doctors out there. They will simply keep cracking them out, until they slip one past. It's a good concept, but it would never work. >>

Nothing will ever stop all of the unscrupulous and "persistent card doctors" but nothing ventured nothing gained. I agree it won't end the problem but I think it may at least help the situation.

Card companies have recognized problems in the hobby and have tried to rectify or lessen the problems by:

1. Inserting thick "dummy" cards in the packs to deter pack searchers.
2. Using foil packs to deter the problem of resealed wax.

Plus, add to that the fact that if the card is slabbed and people still have to pay, they may think twice about sending it in to multiple companies. The only reason people send trimmed cards to the grading companies is because they hope to get a high grade to sell it for a profit to some unsuspecting buyer. As it stands now, there is no penalty for a trimmed card. Send in that trimmed '68 Ryan to PSA, GAI, and SGC. When it is rejected by all three, the submitter isn't out anything and they turn around and sell it raw. If all the grading comapnies institute this, the submitter is out approx. $15 or more (three grading fees of approx. $5/each) and they have to go through the trouble of removing it from three slabs and try to sell it raw. Again, will it deter all, probably not but I think it may have some effect on the problem. Or to quote another saying: "Every little bit helps!"

Scott

packCollector

<< <i>the submitter is out approx. $15 or more (three grading fees of approx. $5/each) >>



it' all risk /reward. they are out $15 ,even say $45 at 15 a pop. so what if they get 1 card through it goes from $100 to $1000 and it more than covers all the grading fees. this is why they do it and will continue to do it no matter what the grading companies do

Knuckles

I wonder if they come apart easier if microwaved

fsjeter

it' all risk /reward. they are out $15 ,even say $45 at 15 a pop. so what if they get 1 card through it goes from $100 to $1000 and it more than covers all the grading fees. this is why they do it and will continue to do it no matter what the grading companies do

True, some will but I still think it will deter some as well. It's better than doing nothing but returning the card to the submitter without penalty.

Scott

Stone193

<< <i>Even if they slab them, the scammers will break it out and sell it as authentic and untrimmed.

Mike >>


Mike

That's why they should send all cards determined - "Evidence of Trimming" back like this!

VintageJeff

LOL. Great idea Mike except I have had legit cards deemed evidence of trimming only to be slabbed at a later date.

MajorDanby

if this were truly a perfect market, all trimmed and counterfeit cards would be not be returned by reputable grading companies so that they would not return to the market. Some collectors dont put trimmed and counterfeit cards back into the market...but a lot do to simply try to get back as much money as possible.

as far as your question...i think there is some value to it, but my guess is the majority of trimmed and counterfeit cards stay raw.

baseballfanatic

Just like how PSA/DNA uses a "swab" on thier autographs, PSA should do the same thing with altered cards. You wouldnt be able to see it, and it would be easy for PSA to spot if it were resubmitted so as not to take up alot of time and keep the grading process moving on to other cards. Unless you have a ton of experience under your belt, a lot of collectors wouldnt touch a raw Mantle for 5,000.00, but it wont stop the phonies that are out there from selling them or buying them because people want to believe that they are getting a deal. That is why there will always be phony art, stamps, cards and anything that has value. If I had a a trimmed 52 Mantle, or even a poor speciman, I would have it slabbed because there will always be a group of people that wont bid (hey, there ARE knowledgable collectors out there) unless it is deemed by PSA to be authentic, so it is definately worth the extra bucks...

smallstocks

<< <i>Great idea Mike except I have had legit cards deemed evidence of trimming only to be slabbed at a later date. >>



So true. I submitted a 1970 Seaver card taken directly from a pack i opened personally. At first it came back "evidence of trimming". I had them reexamine it and it came back PSA 9. To brand the card or not return to sender or such would be a huge injustice.

fsjeter

<<To brand the card or not return to sender or such would be a huge injustice.>>

In the case where you pulled the card from a pack yourself, you could still ask for it to be reexamined if it was slabbed. Either way you are resubmitting a card they knew was rejected. We all know the grading companies make mistakes but again, "every little bit helps." To do nothing is even more of an injustice. Heck, it may cause them to pay closer attention to trimming and decrease the errors like your situation.

tkd7

I think PSA does it right. I don't see a problem with returning a card unslabbed for trimming/alteration. PSA should not take on the role of enforcing ethics on the owner of the card.

I think the other question might be should PSA eliminate qualifiers to deter ebay scammers as well. I suppose it is too late to do that though.

Griffins

At the registry luncheon in Cleveland the attendees overwhelmingly were in favor of slabbing trimmed and other cards as "authentic". The results surprised Joe and I seem to recall he said he'd consider it. I didn't make the luncheon this year, did the topic come up again?

FWIW I've had cards come back as evid of trim that weren't, and were slabbed on a later submission.I've also had GAI crossovers come back as evid of trim and grade when cracked. If PSA were to label cards they thought were trimmed on that particular day I would consider it defacement of my property and never submit another card.

fsjeter

Not sure. I didn't make it to the National this year so I don't know if it was discussed or not.

Scott