Who's hoardin' all the 45-S Mercs in 67FB????
mercurydimeguy
Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
I've searched the Internet, and all the publications and dealer website, high and low and neigh a single one for sale. I saw one in LB a while back...but couldn't bring myself to buy it because it was a 65FB in a 67FB holder. At the ANA show -- not a single one!!!
What gives? Is this (perhaps) the new sleeper conditional rarity of the Merc series?
I've owned about 16 of these dimes, and have had them graded 20+ times and they simply refuse to put one in to a 67FB holders. I'm selling off my very last extra one on eBay now, (this is not a plug by any means so I won't put a link in here)...do a search and look at the coin. Now imagine the one I kept is even better (even though the one I'm selling is surely a 67FB...but they've stuck it in to a 66FB holder 2x now), and I've cracked the one I kept a 3rd time now and it's in grading yet again. Maybe this time it will 67FB.
In any event, anyone know anybody that has one?? Thanks in advance for any leads.
Best, Mike.
What gives? Is this (perhaps) the new sleeper conditional rarity of the Merc series?
I've owned about 16 of these dimes, and have had them graded 20+ times and they simply refuse to put one in to a 67FB holders. I'm selling off my very last extra one on eBay now, (this is not a plug by any means so I won't put a link in here)...do a search and look at the coin. Now imagine the one I kept is even better (even though the one I'm selling is surely a 67FB...but they've stuck it in to a 66FB holder 2x now), and I've cracked the one I kept a 3rd time now and it's in grading yet again. Maybe this time it will 67FB.
In any event, anyone know anybody that has one?? Thanks in advance for any leads.
Best, Mike.
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Surprisingly enough, I know where 2 of those exist today that are for sale -- yet I cannot locate a single 45-S (regular S) in 67FB. Incredible when you collect an entire series, you really begin to appreciate the not-so-immediately-apparent tough to find coins.
<< <i>that's a tough coin in that grade. do they come slightly prooflike from time to time? >>
Truthfully, I've only evey held 1 in an 67FB holder (in hand) and it wasn't PL.
I have a few in 66FB holders that are 67FB's (I've cracked and cracked) yet they keep coming 66FB...and at least 2 are 67FB for sure.
I'll just be patient, but I was down in Balt for a day today and NOT A SINGLE 1 -- that's 2 major shows in a row without 1....hhhmmm.
I want one too.
I'm trying, Larry. I have 1 raw one in grading now (raw, cracked from a 2 time submittal, in which it went 66FB from raw each time, so I know the coin is ALL there) and 1 NGC in for cross (it has about zero 1% chance of crossing since I've only ever crossed 1 NGC dime to PCGS at grade...even though it is really a 7).
I was selling off the other one which I think is a 7, but it didn't sell on eBay (and I'm glad) so I'm going to crack it out and submit for grading also.
I'll let you know how I make out.
Best, Mike.
I just posted on ebay a killer 45-S just for you
Marc
I saw it earlier today -- Mike Printz has a GREAT eye for coins, so I assure you if this coin really had a shot at a 7, Mike would've cracked it/submitted it by now.
BTW -- the 28-D I got from you was/is a great 64FB, but that's all it is. You have stated many times that these coins are in OGH's and are a lock for upgrades, but I disagree. Most upgradeable OGH's have already been upgrade, and what's left out there are technically graded coins that today would actually grade lower
Anyway, the 28-D has hairlines (on the cheeck/neck) underneath the toning, and a hit on the bands that just about joins the bands. If cracked it probably wouldn't make it in to a FB holder ever again, but would still come back a 64
I like the 45-S you posted on eBay, but it's a 6 (by today's standards) at best. I'll make you a little side wager -- you crack it and send it in, and if it comes back a 66FB or 67FB, I'll buy it from you at full Trends( even though I don't need another 6). If it comes back lower (65FB or lower), you buy me a 67FB when I find one?
Anyway, if you see a ready made 7's let me know
Best, Mike.
PS. Just so you know -- I'm only bustin' your chops, ya know
this one is not Mike's - nor did he ever have it for sale. I held on to this one as I did a couple of others. He did take the super picture of it though soooo looks like to me at least your on some kind of a warpath. Ok with me though I don't get frazzled easy
The 28-D I'm glad you like as a 4 - I don't recall ever saying it was a lock 5, if I did I was on something. Yes it could easily pass as a 5, and no it was not in my main set so obviously it was not good enough for me. It is a great 4 period. However if you feel odd about owning that dime now I will take it back right away with no questions asked.
BTW many keys dates cracked out come back non FB just like many come back non FH or the like. That is all part of this game of which I truthfully do not play. Sent again it gets back into whatever holder you heart desires.
As I mentioned a couple of times I have no time or patience for the crack out game.
So in closing since love is in the air, and you did mention your just bustin my chops.......I'll assume you are just having a tough weekend and refrain from venturing any further
Take care,
Marc
Marc, nice
Yes, just bustin' chops...lack of sleep, etc. I'm sure your 45-S is nice...and yes I do like the 28-D, so nothing but love for you there.
I just want to find a nice 67FB 45-S. I did see one in LB, but with big hits on the fasces, etc., I couldn't bring myself to buy it. At that point I owned about 8 66FB's, any one of which was nicer than the one in the 67FB holder.
I did snooze some time ago, when Pinnacle had 2 coins -- they were up on their site for all of about 3 days and by the time I went back they were already gone.
Good luck with your 45-S -- I'm sure it will make someone real happy.
Best, Mike.
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
Who's got'em??
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I passed on the acceptable one I saw...well, I can't even say it was acceptable because it had some pretty big hits on the fasces and I can't imagine a scenario where it made it in to a 67FB holder...but it did. It wouldn't grade more than a 65FB today.
Here's one that went 66FB twice (sent raw both times). It's nearly white...the toning is not as pronounced as is in this photo. It' every bit a 67FB. I can tell you that I would buy this as a 67FB all day long, and would load up if they looked like this. I happen to have 2 of them (I had bought a lot of 8 and sold off all the others that went 66FB also)...this one is home, while it's brother got cracked a 3rd time and is now in grading. I wonder if 3 times will be the charm for its sibling.
Pics, if you care:
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UPDATE***
Just saw one listed on eBay: Link
It is the same one that sold for nearly $1k at Heritage: Link
What were they thinking????
Give it some time to locate. You cannot rush these things.
Really nice dime.
Based on what I see in the pics, obverse strike and cheek issues in their combination seems to be holding this dime in the high end MS-66FB grade. If it makes MS-67FB it conceivably could be considered a slightly crippled MS-67FB.
My thoughts are: were it not for the minor (it is really exaggerated in the 600 px photo) disturbance in luster in that area, I would be ticked off if the coin didn’t 68FB. After all I’m not looking for a 68FB or a 69FB
After having seen literally 1,000's of dimes, I've taken a “long” grading position on some that I believe aren't graded properly the first time. The most amount of times it took me to get a dime in it’s proper holder is 4 times…typically after that (if they don’t grade it properly) I grow disenfranchised with it and just sell it off. I say this because I typically prefer to make my own dimes as opposed to buying them ready made – but I have bought a good number of dimes that are ready-made, which happen to be appropriately graded for their PCGS grade.
I have a not as nice as the pictured coin 45-S in an NGC old fatty MS67FB holder, which I sent in for a cross grading batch with 4 other dimes. This NGC 45-S was kind of my setup coin…to try to make a 37-S, which is stunning. I’ll say this…I have a strange feeling the OK 45-S will cross, the stunning 37-S won’t, and the dime pictured here will still be in a 66FB holder while it’s not as nice relative will be in a 67FB PCGS coffin
Oh how ironic would that be
When we start getting to the MS-66/67/68 superb gem grades let alone 65 gem grades, we do have to try to be a be hyper critical to define what is good and what is not good about each coin. While you understand that every coin has positive and negative features to it you would not believe how some collectors take personal offense when I try to define the coin from my perspective. Almost as if I was mocking a pimple on their own face.
To clarify, I do not see PCGS giving this coin a 67 because the "weakish" strike on the hair bangs, especially near the ear, is the "strike issue" that I expressed earlier. The minor luster break on the cheek virtually guarantees that they will not overlook both of those concerns in the same inspection time. Had one or the other been less apparent, it could have stood muster for a 67.
By the way, I can't seem to locate a single bag mark in the fields which is one of my test points for a 66 or 67 aqnd higher. Am I correct in that there are no bag marks in the fields, obverse or reverse?
Oreville:
It is without question one of the most flawless reverse I've ever examined (in hand) on a Mercury Dime, and other than some break in luster on the cheeck/jaw area on the obverse (as you had noted), the rest of the obverse is devoid of any marks as well. Quite amazing for a Merc, eh, given how many 67's and and even some 68's are out there in holders that do not exhibit this level of perfection in the fields....I know 'cause I own a bunch
Anyway, I can rationalize your observations...and like you said, this can be a high end 66...and in a 67 holder one can say...yeah...but it would be just OK. But I would certainly have no problem purchasing this coin in a 67FB holder. Maybe I have the added advantage of holding this coin in my hand or maybe my standards fall below yours
While on the topic of mark-free dimes, check out my 24-D:
Hmm.. can't seem to attach....I'll see if I can post then attach later..
Not to 'gang up' on you Mike, but I must admit, the luster breaks in Liberty's cheek would keep me from assigning a 67.......I'll try to attach a pic of the one I finally found.
Outstanding 24-D!!!! TINY tics on neck but I certainly hope that one made a 67!!
Nope...but I only tried once. It's in a 66 holder
My coins are odd in that most could grade 1 point higher on any given day...I just need to find that day and submit them ALL!!
I thought the 45-S coins were struck flat on the hair...like the one you have also...Oreville had me going there for a minute
It's just probably the slight break in luster over the cheeck/jaw area. I need to send it in on a day when the lights are dim, or something
You don't suppose the almost 5 fold increase in value for that 34-D had anything to do with that being held hostage in a 66 holder, do you??
Yes, absolutely! Not in any deragotory way...a grader isn't dumb. He/she knows the keys/semi-keys or coins that are conditionally scarce. I'm sure they would like to see the coin a few times before they stick in to a 67FB holder to make sure that they saw enough to know that it was really a 67FB.
Sounds odd...but I bet the truth isn't too far off. I'm not upset...just makes it more challenging
OMG! Two whole shows and still no coin?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>OMG! Two whole shows and still no coin?
Easy now, Mr. Eureka
The Pops on this coin in 67FB must be way off because I've looked around the registry and only a handful...this is not (apparently) a tough date so there might be a lot less out there in PCGS slabs than the Pops lead to believe. Given the 10's of thousands of coins between ANA and Baltimore I thought I'd at least see 1 ??
Hmm, when I say patient, I really mean it.
I had to wait 24 YEARS before I found a certain mercury dime in MS-67FB!
<< <i>mercurydimeguy:
Hmm, when I say patient, I really mean it.
I had to wait 24 YEARS before I found a certain mercury dime in MS-67FB! >>
Can't compare that certain one one with this one, though
Sssooooo, are the 67FB's out there that are "supposedly" A++ coins really that, or is that there are so many sub-par coins out there that people have forgotten what a 67FB is supposed to look like?
Here's a David Lawrence (1*****] red star A+ coin:
Link to coin 1
Here's a [2****] above average coin:
Link to coin 2
Here's a [1*****] A coin:
Link to coin 3
The above are scans, and I've learned with a scan (versus a photo) a coin typically looks much worst in hand.
So we Merc collectors have a supposed standard for what a 67FB is supposed to look like -- and the comments are that my 45-S is a 66FB. What would a newbie call my 45-S when compared to the 38-S with the cavernous hits on the reverse...and what may not even be an FB coin? Or the 41-D with significant friction on the jaw? Or the 44-D??
I think the problem is that most of the 67FB coins that remain in the marketplace are ones that are overgraded and wouldn't make it in to 67FB holders again...while today they are grading much more stricter and thus a coin like my 24-D or 45-S can't make it in to a 67FB holder.
Although some believe in coin ranking vs. coin grading, as I admitedly once did also, that theory is totally bunked because if you were to rank coins that are available in the marketplace most "registry" quality coins that so many of us own today would be 1-3 points higher...and they're not (for the most part) on regrading. I belive, based on my own submission experiences that today's Mercury Dime grading is perhaps the toughest it's ever been.
For experiment purposed I've tried cracking out a market acceptable 66FB -- twice -- and it came back both times as 65FB. I've cracked out a 44-D and 41-D that actually looked a tad bit better than DL's "choice" 67FB's and both came back 66FB. So, the net-net is, the REALLY nice coins are the ones that "freshly" make it in to 67FB holders these days....like my Avatar coin
It was a total dog with weak bands, it should have been a 66.
Price was $550.
Keep looking
1945 s pcgs MS67FB
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>I found a pcgs 1945-s ms67fb at the long beach show.
It was a total dog with weak bands, it should have been a 66.
Price was $550.
Keep looking >>
Funny, I saw that one at the last LB show I went to -- I know which one you mean. The guy was asking $550 for it, but would do it @ $525, so I passed.
Small world.
Here is one. It has some color. I just happened upon it. I have no connection with the seller. Take a look.
Saw that one a while ago also...I fear the toning is on the last leg of it's life...going to dark/ugly in a few years.
I did get a note from someone that they found a nice one for me and will send me pics this Sunday...waiting to see
bought the best one..very nice coin..
You wil see it soon Mike..
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
If there were 3 45-S PCGS 67FB's at the show, must have been a decent show?
Any thoughts on the quantity and/or quality of what you saw?