A PSA Graded Trimmed 1952 Mantle, I'm Curious to See What Happens . . .
detroitfan2
Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭
1952 Mantle PSA Authentic Trimmed
One thing I will NEVER understand with this card or all those trimmed Pro cards: Given how nice the rest of the card is (appears to be crease free, scuff free, otherwise almost perfect), how bad could the corners / edges have been that someone decided to trim it?
One thing I will NEVER understand with this card or all those trimmed Pro cards: Given how nice the rest of the card is (appears to be crease free, scuff free, otherwise almost perfect), how bad could the corners / edges have been that someone decided to trim it?
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Comments
Stingray
Sucks that morons trim cards like that or period rather..
edit - still a nice card, like you said, i dunno why anybody would mess with one..
Eyebone
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Adam J. Moraine
<< <i>It's still gorgeous.. I wonder if the winner will try and let it slide through Beckett or GAI.. but I'm sure they'll take a lot more time with this card making sure it's not trimmed than they regularly do.
Sucks that morons trim cards like that or period rather.. >>
If someone gets a 1952 trimmed Mantle graded that guy doesn't need to buy lottery tickets for the next three years. Can you imagine if the winner of this card put up a '52 Mantle in a PSA (or SGC, or GAI) 6 holder a month from now? You'd hear the scream from this board all the way to Singapore
Or nomar. If he bought it, in a month he'd be selling it on eBay and claiming he was robbed, it should be an 8 at least.
How many submissions to PSA, SGC, GAI, BVG do you think this Mick went through before the last owner gave up and settled for Authentic-Trimmed?
That card looks like it may have been a solidly centered 5 or 6? And worth a hell of lot more - I can't believe someone tried to trim a card like that? I wonder when it was trimmed?
mike
It looks like there is a slight tilt on the left side. Since the right edge looks straight, it might be trimmed on the upper left side. Still, great collector piece.
Why in the world anyone would defile a piece of American history by trimming it is beyond me. This being authentic copy of one of the most valuable cards in our hobby it just does not make any sense to trim it. The person who did it is so sick and twisted they don't even realize what they have done. They will probably never realize the implications of what they have done. It makes me sick every time I see a trimmed Mantle.
I just can't understand what goes through someones mind when they decide to alter a vintage card. It is not like the card does not have alot of value in Mid grade or even lower grade condition. And in today's age of card grading they have to know that they are going to get caught. It just makes no sense.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
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<< <i>How many submissions to PSA, SGC, GAI, BVG do you think this Mick went through before the last owner gave up and settled for Authentic-Trimmed? >>
probably not many as that top edge looks like a dead give away
The difference?...come on now...PSA clearly states the card is trimmed - Pro wouldn't state this card is trimmed and you know they wouldn't. That's the difference.
the difference is that in the pro holder it is meant to deceive the unsuspecting buyer in order to achieve an inflated sale price. in a psa holder it is meant to let the buyer know what they are buying.
Well, I already stated that it was probably trimmed many years ago. No question it was trimmed before the advent of grading companies. Doctoring cards was quite common back then - especially an expensive card. That's one reason why expensive cards became much, MUCH more expensive after the advent of grading - because a lot of these cards had been doctored and therefore couldn't be graded...making a slabbed card of expensive cards such as this even more rare.
Scott
T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
1981 Topps FB PSA 10
1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
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<< <i>The difference?...come on now...PSA clearly states the card is trimmed - Pro wouldn't state this card is trimmed and you know they wouldn't. That's the difference. >>
<< <i>the difference is that in the pro holder it is meant to deceive the unsuspecting buyer in order to achieve an inflated sale price. in a psa holder it is meant to let the buyer know what they are buying. >>
The card is still altered though regardless of who's holder it is in. So breaking any trimmed cards out of PRO holders and having them slabbed as PSA "authentic trimmed" would make them nice cards?
Or maybe I am misunderstanding and people are really just against PRO in general since much of their stuff is suspect at best, but not necessarily against altered cards?
<< <i>Or maybe I am misunderstanding and people are really just against PRO in general since much of their stuff is suspect at best, but not necessarily against altered cards? >>
A.) Ithink we are all against PRO.
B.) I think we are all against trimmed cards but the reality is that there are cards out there that have been trimmed and the question is what to do with them. In this case, this is a card that many people can not afford in high grade so the alternative is to buy a low grade that looks like crap or an altered card. many people who are against altered cards would be happy to have this in their collection but that does not mean they like trimmed cards. It means they could afford this card becasue some knuckle head trimmed it and reduced the value to an affordable level. the reason we are for a "PSA trimmed" designation is for authentication. This card has been conterfeited many times so at least you know you are getting the real deal. even buying a "PRO 10" does not guarantee you an authentic card.
<< <i><<< That card looks like it may have been a solidly centered 5 or 6? And worth a hell of lot more - I can't believe someone tried to trim a card like that? I wonder when it was trimmed? >>>
Well, I already stated that it was probably trimmed many years ago. No question it was trimmed before the advent of grading companies. Doctoring cards was quite common back then - especially an expensive card. That's one reason why expensive cards became much, MUCH more expensive after the advent of grading - because a lot of these cards had been doctored and therefore couldn't be graded...making a slabbed card of expensive cards such as this even more rare. >>
Steve
That's what I was alluding to with the rhetorical question?
Before PSA, I wasn't even sure I could trust 3rd party grading like the two original companies - Acu-card/ASA and Superlative BB Card Certification - I was worried about collusion with big submitters.
But, once word starting getting out that cards were being doctored, I started getting worried. My first bad experience was with a Carlton RC which had a hint of whitening on the border that was totally unnoticeable on the cardshow floor.
mike
<< <i>When a trimmed card is in a PRO holder, you guys say it is garbage. This trimmed card is in a PSA holder, and you guys say it is nice. What's the difference? >>
Walls
I think that most people were stating the card is still nice out of resignation over the fact that it is trimmed and there's no going back.
Any other inferences that you have drawn, seem to be more a product of your own point of view rather than what is in the mind and hearts of the viewers here?
mike
Of course it's the same card, but PSA is calling it what it is -- and collectors can make an informed choice based on that. Putting it in a PRO holder that pretends it's NOT a trimmed card is an attempt to steal the life savings of some excited novice who wants to enter the hobby with a bang.
Given the choice, I would prefer to have that authentic slabbed mantle over the same card in a 'pro' holder.
<< <i>Where do you guys think this one will finish up? My guess is $4,800. Anybody else? >>
<< <i>My guess is that it will end up at $5,575 >>
<< <i>my guess is 5k... roughly the price of a psa 3 >>
Absolutely no way it goes for a penny less than 10k. I'm guessing it hits in the 15-18 range.
The PSA is an authentic card that has been trimmed ...seems pretty straight forward to me
The PRO card might have been a outright fake ...or maybe an authentic card that has been trimmed, bleached, corners rebuilt..etc
Groucho Marx
Here's some info on the new owners: New Owners
<< <i>Well, with some heavy last minute bidding, she closed at $8202.00 (kuntryboy was right on again). >>
Detroitfan2, keep in mind that my prediction was made before it was known that Gerry Schwartz was the consignor. If you don't think that makes a huge difference with a card like this then you have an awful lot to learn about this hobby/business, my friend.
<< <i>Here's some info on the new owners: New Owners >>
Halosfan is correct that the new owner is actually this joker. Do a search on the eBay message boards for info about his alleged questionable business practices.
After
Damn!
Lay off the acid!
wallst32 - that is an interesting point. No doubt in my mind that this card would have sold for less money in a Pro slab because of their tainted reputation. But can we suddenly start cracking Pro slabs and submitting the cards to PSA, getting them labeled "Trimmed, Authentic" and make a quick profit? - I doubt it.
I think this Mantle was an exception because again, my view was a corner was just slightly doctored, probably many years ago. It is still a very nice card. Most if not virtually all those Pro slabbed cards have considerable trimming usually on all four edges. A 52 Mantle like that even in a PSA "Trimmed, Authentic" holder would sell for a lot less than this one just did.
I'm not sure anyway that PSA would slab a brutally trimmed card like those found in Pro slabs. I'm not sure what PSA's criteria is for deciding to slab a trimmed card, but I have never seen a brutally trimmed card in a PSA "Trimmed, Authentic" holder.
Steve
Followed by:
<<keep in mind that my prediction was made before it was known that Gerry Schwartz was the consignor>>
Apparently, "Absolutely no way" means "Absolutely no way, unless of course Gerry Schwartz is the consignor". Sorry, I should have known that from the original prediction. If he'd have known that Gerry Schwartz was the consignor, I'm guessing the kuntryboy's prediction would have been $8202.01.
You're right, I do have a lot to learn. My bad.
Taking him out of the mix can really cut into the price.
Nick
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Off-topic story: I knew a kid who used to take any card with a touched corner to art class and use the paper slicer to shae the edges off his cards. We're talking .50 and $1 cards. Somewhere, there's a stack of Gregg Olson and Tom Gordon RCs that are trimmed. I don't know what my point is, I just think that's funny.
Lee