Such a large difference in price for the same grade; anyone have the same experience?

TahoeDale

At the recent ANA, I viewed a magnificient mint state Barber half in NGC 68. It was a 1908-O, and has been off the market for years. Before I mention the asking price, some background.

There is a NGC 67 at David Hall, listed for about 12,000. The Hugon NGC 68 sold in Jan. 2005 for 19,500. Both of these coins have medium to darker toning, but fully struck, and technically correct.

The 1908-O is the most populous coin in high grade, along with the 1892. About 10 in 67 for both dates at PCGS, and 2 in 68 at NGC.

The 68 viewed at the ANA was a highly toned, lusterous and fully struck example. One small hit on Obverse, but the rest of the coin allowed the 68 grade by NGC. Asking price- $75,000.

While a lot nicer than the other NGC 68, I was shocked to hear the price-3 1/2 times a recent sale of the same date and grade. And a price in excess of a 1901-S in 66 or 67, 1904-S in 66, 1896-O in 65. Even more than the price realized by the only NGC 69 sold at Hugon.

Can beautiful surfaces command such a price in a series that hasn't (yet) given the multiples for toning that commems and morgans have been getting? Is this series-Barber halves- ready for the multiples?

Any other series besides Commems and Morgans commanding such high prices for the rainbow/monster toning?

tradedollarnut

There is a NGC 67 at David Hall, listed for about 12,000.

Somehow, I doubt this...

tradedollarnut

Just some yahoo taking a shot. That's the problem with the top pop grades that NGC is giving. A few years back, when NGC traded at a discount because the market wasn't so white hot nuclear, it was ok to extend those grades upward. Now the recipients are looking for the double whammy - the money for the grade and moon money for the top pop.

tradedollarnut

But ... to answer your question:

I've seen huge money swings inside a grade. Take a PCGS MS66 seated dollar, for example. I figure base value is $100k for such a coin. I've seen a low end coin sold for around $60k and I've paid $130k for a high end specimen. Although not 3.5 times like your example, that's a swing of $70k inside the same grade.

bullseye

Big swings happen all the time.

I once saw a Stone Mountian-NGC MS68 sell for $4,750.00 at the same time I purchased a PCGS MS68 for $22,000.00.

I've also seen HUGE gaps within the same service (same grade too).

Sounds like the person asking $75,000.00 either didn't know their market, or was taking a shot.

TahoeDale

TDN,

I was waiting to see if anyone else picked up on the "NGC graded at David Hall". I guess everyone else is asleep.

I just may stop doing the "hidden" faux pais, if it doesn't wake up our members. The 67 there is a PCGS graded coin.

I too have paid way over market/sheet for the pq examples of lib nickels, barber halves and quarters, and early type. And have seen trades way under, for only fair condition for grade.

But a 3 1/2 multiple is very unusual, and I doubt the present market will sustain that kind of pricing. Only 1 lib nickel has obtained that kind of moon money. And it was for fab toning on an 1888 in PCGS 66, sold in 2002(?). I will try to post a picture.

TahoeDale

Here is a lib nickel that sold for over 20,000 in 2002 when sheet and previous trades indicated a value of about 6,000Text

CTcollector

Considering that you have one company letting everything including the kitchen sink into high grade holders and the other arbitrarily tigthening and loosening to suit their own needs, you can legitimately have coins in the same grade be 2 points apart. More so today, than any time in the past. So yes, I have the same experience and try to pay appropriately based on the individual coin. The most I have paid is 2X the going rate for the "assigned grade". I think in today's market you need to be open to this, otherwise you are going to miss out on some great coins. That said, I think we need to avoid the clowns who are taking shots and trying to cash in on the "registry fever" which I would bet is the case in your example.

michael

bullseye
Member

Posts: 169
Joined: Feb 2004
Monday August 08, 2005 1:48 PM (NEW!)



Big swings happen all the time.

I once saw a Stone Mountian-NGC MS68 sell for $4,750.00 at the same time I purchased a PCGS MS68 for $22,000.00.

I've also seen HUGE gaps within the same service (same grade too).

Sounds like the person asking $75,000.00 either didn't know their market, or was taking a shot.

-------------------------
Don't mess with me! I'm crazy! Got any cool Type?

please turn on your pm!

as per the above bullseye i would love to see a photo scan of your stone mountain pcgs ms68 sounds like a killer coin

please pm me with a photoif you got one

rainbowroosie

Price a really nice 49S roosie in 67....maybe $300 for a cool color coin with no bands...I paid $4000 for my 68....just bought a lesser 52S in 68 for $1200....quality matters.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

TAHOEDALE

The first thing you need to mention is who the goniff is that is selling the 1908 o Barber half in ms 68.

You can also mention that he is also trying to sell a 1805 half dime in NGC ms 64 for $750,000

Lastly this same dealer tried to cross the 1908 o Barber half to PCGS and it DNC (did not cross)

It is therefore deceptive to believe that he is a collector friendly coin dealer.He is a Goniff plain and simple.
He took a big shot at you and it seems he affected you. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware)
There is no such thing as a spread that great in a Barber half dollar or any other coin of the same grade for that matter.
Happy Trails

Stewart

lloydmincy

It doesnt command a price like that if no one buys it. When are we going to, as collectors, beat the grading services at their own game of gradflation?
TAHOEDALE, are we not supposed to be educating each other?

I think we should expose dealers that are trying to hit a ridiculous home run like that. I will when I see it.

Ronyahski

Taking a shot... probably. But some of the Knoxville type was priced at multiples. Some sold, some are still on the market.

Has anyone else noticed that some highest graded type has taken a strong uptick recently. It's hard to notice the trend as it happens, because there may be so few of them trading hands, so you only know it after that one coin sells. I've seen it recently in Seated.

MrEureka

I think we should expose dealers that are trying to hit a ridiculous home run like that.

Lloyd - First, there is no such thing as a "ridiculous home run". All home runs are good. Second, who are we to say that a coin in a dealer's showcase has to be priced at "market levels"? For that matter, who are we to say that we even know what "market levels" are? That said, l must admit that I saw the coin and very quickly passed at 75K.

TahoeDale

Consensus after several days: This particular coin is priced out of any reasonable range.

But, does anyone see the higher priced coins, in any series, fetching multiples of 4 to 10 times the price to be paid for the properly graded coin, say a $6000 MS 65 1905 Barber half, that is as nicely toned as the rainbow Morgans that get 10 times for a normal $800 coin.

Does the market value have to be under 1000 dollars, before anyone would pay 10 times?

Do there have to be many examples of the monster toning, so as to offer a lot of competitors the chance to bid, and therefore jack up the final price?

What are the other reasons why smart collectors will pay so much for fab toning? But only in 2 series.

If I were to present a beautiful Barber quarter in MS 66, looking like the toned winner of the century, I doubt the final auction price would exceed 2 times, if the base price were $5500, and probably not 1 1/2 times if the base price was 15,000.

So, someone please explain why a common date Morgan costing $300 in 65 can sell for $10,000, and a $2500 commem can sell for $69,000?

tradedollarnut

The trade dollar in my sig line cost at least twice as much for the color. I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into paying the premium. I've not regretted it one day since.

The hardest thing for us top end collectors is to figure the true value of some of the coins we buy. There are no priceguides, few mentors and lots of shot takers. Sometimes you have to overpay - it's the right thing to do for the set. Sometimes you have to say no - it's the right thing to do for your pocketbook [not just on that coin but on all future coins]. Wondering when to do which is what causes us to turn gray prematurely....

coinguy1

Dale, let me sum up the price premium situation for you:

Generally speaking, the more common and/or lower price the coin is, the greater the likelihood that the price multiple paid for its PQ condition and/or wonderful color will be higher. Conversely, the rarer and/or higher price the coin is, the less the likelihood that the price multiple paid for its PQ condition and/or wonderful color will be higher.

jcping

> why a common date Morgan costing $300 in 65 can sell for $10,000, and a $2500 commem can sell for $69,000?

Because someone tries to build a beautifully toned Morgan set and a beautifully toned commem set. It is possibly achieve-able.
It is nearly impossible to achieve a beautifully toned Barber half set

> Conversely, the rarer and/or higher price the coin is, the less the likelihood that the price multiple paid for its PQ condition and/or wonderful color will be higher.

Maybe we shouldn't see from the price multiple of plastic grade point of view. May be we should see from the fixed $$$ point of view for the beautiful colors. I.e., folks add fixed amount of $$$ on top of the average white coin to price the beautiful colors