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How rare is the 1904 Philippine 1/2 centavo in red?
newsman
Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭
I see lots of red Unc. 1903 1/2 centavos (I have two of them), but I'm having a very hard time finding a red 1904. I was at a show this morning and couldn't find more than one or two 1904s and both were circulated and ugly. Are they really that scarce? 
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One of the major Philippine dealers tells me that about 10 years ago he discovered a small hoard of 1903 half centavos (2 rolls of 50 each). He says that about half of them were nice cherry red. That would account for the accessibility of the '03 in red.
No similar hoard was ever found for the 1904 half centavo and while it's not particularly scarce in gem brown or gem red-brown, it's a tough cookie in gem red.
Thank you, MS61! You are right about the mintage of the 1904 half centavo. Basso lists the mintage as 5.66 million.
But he also mentions that "In 1908, 7,585,400 half centavo coins were sent to San Francisco for melting and re-coining into one centavo coins." That was more than 42% of the total mintage of the half centavos, so no telling how many 04s survived.
But regardless of how many survived the melting, the overwhelming bulk of the remainder were exposed to the hot, humid weather of the Philippines. Few have survived in red, and even those graded red by NGC and PCGS tend to be so graded more by the grace of god than by merit.
The bottom line: in cherry red, the 1904 half centavo is a much harder coin than say, the 1904 Indian Head Cent or, for that matter, the 1909-SVDB penny. If you find one, glom it up and enjoy it!
Best wishes,
Just Having Fun
I have been looking for one fairly steadily for about a year, and have yet to find it. All I've seen are circulated ones, and two slabbed brown uncs. on eBay both of which went for at least twice the Krause price.
Look at this....
what do you think of this? Isn't it beautiful?
jepoy
It's always interesting when I'm too busy to check eBay and then as soon as I get a little free time and check in, I see a beaut like this that I let get a away. It does look nicer than mine. Congratulations and welcome to these boards.
Enjoy yourself!
Just Having Fun
thanks for the comment. i really waited so long to find something like this 1904 half centavo in Red BU.
i wanted to built a great set of US-Philippine half centvo coins from 1903-1908 in circulated type and proof type. i hope this will be a good new beginning.
i saw your collections of US-Philippine half centavo in PCGS Set Registry. You ranked #1.Your SET is one of a kind . how were you able to put such a beautiful and one of kind SET? any advice?
jepoy
Dear Jepoy:
My #1 piece of advice is burning passion. You have to really, really want to do it.
#2, is if you want to build a great collection -- of any type of coin -- you have to focus and become single-minded about it. If you want to build a great US Philipines collection then focus on that, and stop collecting Jefferson nickels, Barber dimes or whatever. Focus.
When I was collecting Standing Liberty Quarters, I was a fanatic Standing Liberty Quarter collector. I went to the eBay SLQ and Teletrade SLQ sections every single day. And when I finished that collection, I haven't visited those sites for years. But I visit the Philippines section constantly.
#3, swing for the fences. Don't be afraid to go out on a limb and swing for the fences. You saw that 1904 half centavo, and stepped up to the plate and swung for the fences. Congratulations. I think you hit a grand slammer.
#4. The other side of swinging for fences is that you have to accept lots of mistakes along the road. I made a zillion along the way ... including paying $1,400 for a bogus 1906-S peso which was a major ouchie. But that's part of the process of learning and building a great collection.
#5. Ignore the Registry Set. Collect what's interesting to yourself, not what the power-that-be at PCGS tell you to collect. If I had simply followed the PCGS Registry Set, I'd never have gotten the beautiful horned S, 1908 centavo, or the S/S/S, or the 1914-S Large S, or the 1916-S large S. But those were great coins, and I went out on a limb to gobble them -- and a slew of other interesting varieties -- up. And I've never regretted it for a second.
And most of all, have fun doing what you're doing, because that way, it self reinforces.
Which is what I've been doing -- I'm just having fun, and tons of it.
Best wishes!
it is indeed a beautiful coin, beautiful toning.. was it graded by the TPG? or you sold it as raw coin. do you still have anything like this?
jepoy
thanks for the very nice advice of yours. i will use it as my guide to collecting coins.
so far, i am having fun collecting US-Philippine half centavo coins, my problem now is how it will be graded by the TPG. I want it to be graded by PCGS, however, i think we don't have any submission center here in the philippines, do we have? any advice?
also, i reviewed almost every topic on this forum, it is of great help especially to the newbies like me. hope it will continue.
by the way, do you know any coin dealer here in the philippines offering a great selection of US-Philippine coins?
again thanks.
jepoy
<< <i>was it graded by the TPG? or you sold it as raw coin. do you still have anything like this? >>
Sold raw. I don't have any other 1904's like that right now. I do have a couple of 03's, but not with that kind of color. Although I don't look specifically for these, they seem to show up regularly enough to make me think they didn't circulate extensively. I'd suppose somebody more knowledgeable in this area could probably give you better info, though.
For slabbed coins, there were really only two in the Philippines: Filam Coins and Kakashi (?) and unfortunately Mr. Filam has moved to the states. Still, Kakashi (spelling?), a close personal friend of mine, maintains the website www.philippinecoins.com ... has by far the top selection of slabbed US Philippine coins in the Philippines ... and has one of the top selections of slabbed US Philippine coins in the world. Both Filam and Kakashi also occasionally list slabbed coins on eBay.
What I've done is gone to the eBay site for Philippine coins, did a search in that for NGC and PCGS, and then saved that to my favorites. So, now when I check out the listings, I can just go straight to two-dozen or so slabbed coins of potential interest. As for the raw coins on eBay, I've just been burned so many times, I've pretty much given it up for bad business.
Enjoy,
Just Having Fun
Cookie Jar Collectibles
He still wouldn't take it back. He insisted it was one of the finest specimens of this date he had ever seen. I agreed it was nice, and would probably have net graded AU55 or 58 at ANACS, but that wasn't what he had told me and that wasn't what I wanted.
To make a long story short, I finally got a refund -- but only after a protracted fight. I've never bought a raw coin from him again. I don't need this agita. I need someone who stands behind his words quickly, without hassle, and without a fight.
And indeed, if you'll look at the auction notes, there is no guarantee that the coin is as described. The ONLY guarantee is that the coin is genuine. So the description can be waaay off -- as it was in my case -- and you have no recourse.
Knowing that, if you want to bid, good luck and may the force be with you!
Just Having Fun, and lots of it, in Manila
just received a lyman allen's 5th edition of US-Philippine Coins from him also a catalog of his MailBid X. He is offering some half centvo proof type coin including 1906 NGC PF65 RB and 1908 NGC PF65 RB and circulated type including 1903 NGC MS65 Red and 1904 NGC MS65 RB. i'm planning to bid on one of those coins.
by the way, how can we categorize half centavo coin as brown, red-brown or red? and how can we grade half centavo? what are the key points in grading half centavo coins?
thanks,
jepoy
<< <i>I don't recommend Cookie Jar. >>
I'm sorry to hear that you had a less than satisfactory experience. My results were better- the coins I bid on and won were as described, so I had no reason to think there might be potential problems there.
One thing, though...
<< <i>And indeed, if you'll look at the auction notes, there is no guarantee that the coin is as described. The ONLY guarantee is that the coin is genuine. So the description can be waaay off -- as it was in my case -- and you have no recourse. >>
The copy of the current mail bid listing I received in the mail includes the following in the terms of sale:
"Return any items within 10 days, if unsatisfied, for a full refund."
Now, I'm not doubting your past troubles getting a refund- I am only reporting what the current auction terms state- nothing more.
Did I miss that guarantee in the link you posted? I read it twice to make sure. But it was hard reading and maybe with old, tired eyes I missed it. Please check it out and see if that guarantee is really there in the link.
In any case, if Mr. Cookie Jar puts a 10 day money-back guarantee in writing, my confidence level in buying raw from him would rise enormously.
Incidentally, among the other dealers who I buy raw from regularly, include the Philippine dealers ... Jun Cuartero, Attorney Escano, and Albino Quiban. Many of my top US-PI dates, varieties and and a spectacular error collection come from them. In the US, I've bought US-PI raw coins many times from Bishop Coins and Rare Coins of New Hampshire, and never had a raw coin misrepresented.
Slabbed coins: CoinDen, NorthEast Numismatics, and Rare Coins of New Hampshire are really good sources. I also check out Teletrade and e-Bay rom time to time.
I hope this helps.
Just having fun, and lots of it, in Manila
<< <i>Dear Mr. Potato Head:
Did I miss that guarantee in the link you posted? I read it twice to make sure. But it was hard reading and maybe with old, tired eyes I missed it. Please check it out and see if that guarantee is really there in the link. >>
I found it under item #2:
2. In case of tie bid, first bid received wins the lot. All items guaranteed genuine unless noted. Successful bidders notified and payment is due upon receipt of invoice. Return any items within 10 days, if unsatisfied, for a full refund. Explanation appreciated. NOTE: With prior arrangement, LAYAWAY can be accomodated. I retain full ownership until the lot is PAID-IN-FULL.
Thanks for your reccomendations- it's always good to hear about places to find coins!