No f-ing way is this possible

EagleEyeKid

I'm sorry, but there is no possible way for this card to receive this grade without going
to the chop shop first. I've busted so much of that product, and they're sooooo bad. It's pretty amazing with some of the stuff
this seller's come up with. He was the one with the 86 TT Bonds BGS 10 that got 24K for that. I feel sorry for the buyer who bought
that card. Here's another one. Insane!

Boopotts

My guess is that the Clemens is a reprint. I've cracked a bunch out of BGS 9 holders that came back from PSA as 'questionable authenticity'.

I have no idea what the scam is with the Griffey, but I like your guess.

zef204

I think that BGS has laxed lately and have given out a lot more 10's, which is why we have seen a lot more of them come up recently. I am think of sending in the 2 dead-centered 85d Clemens I just pulled from a rack case in hopes of a 10 and getting these idiots to pay the same thing for a card that PSA may have slabbed a 9. BGS 10 is worthless IMO as they have eased their standards as of late.

iamthegreatcornholio

I own BGS cards, and I am happy with them. But lately, I agree that the grading seems very relaxed. I think BGS did us a big favor by now putting the subgrades on the front so we know which ones to avoid as those were graded under the new, loose regime.

Brian

jmbkb4

Look at the bottom right corner of that Clemens. It'd have a hard making a PSA 10.

SDavid

I've busted so much of that product

That was your first mistake. I've pulled cards from '85 and '87 donruss factory sets that received straight 9.5's and a few psa 10's from a somewhat recent submission. The 9.5's could just as easily have received 10's; they had zero edge or corner chipping. The pristine grade is complete bs imo.

BTW, I could be wrong, but I've always thought jaysace was buying these cards already graded under a different account and then hyping them up. I've never thought that he was submitting them.

SDavid

After looking up the card at beckett's site, it looks like he did grade it since it was graded July 30. That's weird that he keeps coming up with all these pristine 10's from older cards. Even if he's trimming them or cutting them from a sheet, I've submitted several cards that were razor sharp and they still never received higher than a 9.5 subgrade. I couldn't have made the cards any sharper if I had wanted to. Somebody must like him.

Boopotts

"Look at the bottom right corner of that Clemens. It'd have a hard making a PSA 10."

You can't tell anything from a scan.

Stingray

I could not believe how may cards I saw at the National that were BGS 9.5s. Anyone else notice this. Though I am talking about modern cards.

Stingray

jrdolan

<< <i>I own BGS cards, and I am happy with them. But lately, I agree that the grading seems very relaxed. I think BGS did us a big favor by now putting the subgrades on the front so we know which ones to avoid as those were graded under the new, loose regime. >>



Brian, the high grades issued under the "new, loose regime" will drastically affect the value of the same grades issued earlier, once the Beckett masses understand what is happening. There are 1,525 BGS 9.5 cards on eBay today. People were shocked by the display cases filled with stacks of 9.5's at the National, and those are going out on eBay and the Beckett Marketplace when the dealers get back and unpack. Many people (mostly dealers) have wised up and are dumping. Others are submitting to Beckett and flipping as fast as they can. Perhaps the tipoff was that their last Beckett submission came back with 44 out of 50 cards graded 9.5 or 10 when they were only expecting a handful to grade that high.

So BGS values are about to fall off a cliff. This business decision to issue many more 9.5's and 10's was a short-term cash windfall for the company -- gee, could that be related to the sale of Beckett to a N.Y. media group in January? -- but it was very bad news for those collectors who have paid and continue to pay astounding amounts of money for these formerly "rare" grades.

In short, Brian, the cool BGS holder and the subgrades won't be much comfort when the crash comes. I think people are sick of hearing me say it, but this isn't a crackpot prognostication. The writing is on the wall and realization is going to set in soon. Get out while you can.

DaBigHurt

I'm glad none of this applies to PSA 10s. That's the key to remember. PSA 10s are actually REAL 10s, not some imaginery number concocted by the graders "across the street." The trained and certified professionals at PSA are the most consistent graders in the business and for the nonbelievers, all you have to do is look at the AMAZING success of the PSA Set Registry.

zef204

DBH you crack me up

eyebone

Just exactly how big a shareholder are you in PSA DBH????

Eyebone

Robeson

I am new at these boards and have a question? Is this guy being sarcastic or does he believe what he says about trained and certified graders? Just a question. Thanks

julen23

That guy is the president of the company.

Julen

iamthegreatcornholio

JR, I agree with what you're saying, but I think people will realize that the cards in the old-style holders are accurately graded. Nevertheless, if prices continue to fall on all BGS cards regardless of when they were graded, there may be some bargains in those old holders.

Brian

Boopotts

JR, you're making a critical mistake; i.e., you're overestimating the intelligence of your fellow collector. And that's always a bad idea.

People pay $100 for a $10 pair of jeans because of the label, they buy $8 six packs of domestic pilsners when a $5 six pack would taste just as good, etc. etc. People in this country just HAVE to spend. They can't help it. And when it comes to card collecting there is no rhyme or reason to what people will drop money on.

Look at the rest of this hobby. $100K modern sets? 24K for a Bonds rookie? $800 packs of cards? $5K for random commons from the 50's in PSA 10 holders? The whole thing is completely off the wall. If we've learned one thing about card collectors it is this-- they LOOOVE to spend money. Preferably lots and lots of it. And the deal is even sweeter if the thing they're buying will take a 80% drop in value in the next calendar year.

Most of the people on these boards (whether they care to admit it or not) at least keep half an eye on the potential value of their collectibles down the road. They may be wrong (read: people who were spending $40 for PSA 8 '60's commons three years ago), but it's at least a consideration. But we're in a very small minority. Most card collectors go at it the way women go at shoes; it's just mad money, and they have zero regard for the potential appreciation (or depreciation) of what they're buying. Just do a random search on Ebay and you'll find all kinds of hammer prices that utterly defy reason. $500 for an autographed card of a FOOTBALL PROSPECT?! Are you kidding me? How many 1st rounders go on to become superstars? Virtually none, since the NFL is not a star driven league. But people just don't care. They'll gladly kick out two hundred bucks for a Ronnie Brown autographed card and not give it a second thought.

Given the overall level of insanity in the card collecting market I don't see how the saturation of BGS 9.5's can make a difference. Every time we say 'this hobby can't get any dumber' it does. Every time. When it comes to cards- and especially modern cards, although vintage collectors hand aren't exactly clean either-- there is no foresight. Just spend, spend spend!

A similar argument to the one you're making about BGS 9.5's could have been made five years ago when we started seeing eight thousand products hitting the shelves every year. A guy could have reasonably predicted that people were going to stop spending $1000 on X-Fractors, or whatever, because the number of products out there would intimidate the average collector; thus, he would be more hesitant to spend mad coin on a given card since he couldn't be sure that it would be the 'hot card' if the player took off. But that didn't happen. Your response to the glut of 9.5's is a reasoned and rational response from a reasonable and rational collector. Don't be inclined to credit those attributes to your fellow hobbyists.

2dueces

Man Boopots. You hit the nail on the head. Could part of it be impulse buying? I gotta have that no matter what? I wonder if there is some buyers regret somewhere down the road.
Not questioning anyone collecting but I just couldnt understand the rush and astronomical prices for the Pittsburg player last year. Is 1 year a guage for a career?
I cannot see this card in 10 years being worth more than a Montana rookie, but it sure is today. Out