Palmeiro suspended for Steroids!
Brooksie05
Posts: 29
Front page of ESPN news and USA Today! Goodbye hobby cred, goodbye HOF!
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I think the steroids testing needs to have another rule if someone is caught... automatic disqualification from election into the HOF.
This stuff needs to stop and clearly the players don't take the testing seriously.
Palmeiro's statement before Congress read as follows: "Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Rafael Palmeiro and I am a professional baseball player. I'll be brief in my remarks today. Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The reference to me in Mr. Canseco's book is absolutely false. I am against the use of steroids. I don't think athletes should use steroids and I don't think our kids should use them. That point of view is one, unfortunately, that is not shared by our former colleague, Jose Canseco. Mr. Canseco is an unashamed advocate for increased steroid use by all athletes."
I see a perjury charge coming down soon.
I'm surprised how many people let Palmeiro off the hook so easily. Look at his career stats, he averaged 16 HRs per season over the five full seasons before he met Jose. In the 5 years after he averaged 35 HRs and that included the strike season.
I agree - a positive steriod test should mean no HOF.
<< <i>From SI.com:
Palmeiro's statement before Congress read as follows: "Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Rafael Palmeiro and I am a professional baseball player. I'll be brief in my remarks today. Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The reference to me in Mr. Canseco's book is absolutely false. I am against the use of steroids. I don't think athletes should use steroids and I don't think our kids should use them. That point of view is one, unfortunately, that is not shared by our former colleague, Jose Canseco. Mr. Canseco is an unashamed advocate for increased steroid use by all athletes."
I see a perjury charge coming down soon. >>
Mac53,
I expected better from you. Yes on the surface, one would expect perjury charges for the Stalinist regime, but this is not the case for several reasons.
First, Palmeiro was suspended for violating the steroid policy, not for using steroids. For all we know, he could have been suspended for using blood boosters, steroid pre-cursors, or quite a few other fun things that are tested for under the steroid policy.
Second, it will be very easy for him to say that he started using them after his testimony, which would not result in perjury - but would be incredibly stupid on his part.
Finally, he keeps using the word "intentionally", which is a favorite of Bonds' as well. He can say, "I spoke the truth before Congress to the best of my knowledge." "I can't be held accountable for other people put in my body". Once again a stupid reason, but it works.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
One reason why i'm glad i stopped buying cards since about 1986.
yea, easy on raffy, we only suppositioning now, wait until they say what he was doing specifically, then we can berate him.
Julen
RIP GURU
I read Jose's book. Very entertaining. Yes he is a big dope and loves himself, but at least he has some personality. I think it will make a good ESPN movie or maybe USA Network. MLB may not like it.
Julen - I don't think MLB will say exactly what he tested for. However there are 45 drugs in the steriod policy, all of which are illegal for athletic competition and are anabolic (ie increase muscle).
<< <i>Yes on the surface, one would expect perjury charges for the Stalinist regime, but this is not the case for several reasons. >>
Well, I guess we'll see. His testimony was awfully public, and the various members of the Congressional committee, I would guess, will be pretty honked off if they think he came there and made fools of them. He swore that he didn't use, and now, seemingly, there is evidence that in fact he did use (actually, I don't know how long the stuff stays in the body, or when Palmeiro's test was, so, the testing may or may not prove that he used before his testimony. But, then you still have Conseco's testimony to prove that Palmeiro used roids before his testimony). I'll bet a buck that the DC U.S. Attorney's Office has gotten a few calls from Capitol Hill on this issue this morning.
My father in law bought it and loaned it to me. One of the worst pieces of writing I have ever seen. He couldn't even get a reputable editor to clean it up. I tried to give my father in law a check for half of the purchase price because I felt bad that he had paid 25 bucks for it.
Sure his story is correct in many ways but an honorable man and athlete would have helped MLB solve the problem, not capitalize on it.
A nickel for every time Canseco says "I don't like to talk about myself or make myself out as a hero, but" would keep us all in cards for years.
He also contradicted himself in his first minutes of congressional testimony when he stated that steroids should not be used in professional sports. The first chapter of the book is about the proper use of steroids and how he advocates their use.
I look forward to his continued decline both financially and morally.
Knock "Pa-liar-o's" hits back to 2,999 and kick him out for life.
<< <i>It is interesting that not one of the players mentioned in Jose's book filed a lawsuit for slander or libel. If the book was all lies, it would be an easy payday.
I read Jose's book. Very entertaining. Yes he is a big dope and loves himself, but at least he has some personality. I think it will make a good ESPN movie or maybe USA Network. MLB may not like it. >>
Kind of like how the NFL hated that ESPN show 'playmakers'? The show had solid numbers, but it threatened ESPN's contract with the NFL. I suspect that Canseco's book will be made into a movie.
<< <i>I suspect that Canseco's book will be made into a movie. >>
Heh, funny you should mention that. In a radio interview, Canseco said that he had already worked up a screenplay version of the book and is not sure whether he wants to cast himself in the leading role.
Hey Julen, Logic dictates that all of these cards are going to go down in value (Bonds,McGwire.....) . I actually stopped buying because of the crappy designs of the cards. But it just gives me another reason that i am glad i did not invest in those years. You know the sad part is, these ball players keep making Canseco look good. And there is no getting around that!!
<< <i>Canseco is a moron and his book is garbage. >>
No argument here. But garbage is a harsh term for what's turning out to be completely true.
<< <i>
Sure his story is correct in many ways but an honorable man and athlete would have helped MLB solve the problem, not capitalize on it.
>>
Some would say that in an indirect way, his bringing this to light IS solving the probem.
The question you need to ask is: Would MLB have cracked down on steriods if it wasn't for his book?
The storm his book caused lead to the Congressional hearings, which pressured MLB (specifically the players) to clean up their act. In the end I think the game will be better because of the book. You don't have to like him, but I can't think of anyone else that could have done what he did.
The next 5-10 years of HOF voting should be interesting. There is a chance that several 500+ HR guys will not make it, as well as one 3000 hit guy. Soon we will be talking about McGwire rather than Rose not being in the HOF.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I wonder what Ryne Sandberg's ex-wife thinks?
Look at it this way. Wouldn't the book have been better if MLB did not accept his help and he wrote about it? How about if MLB accepted his help and cracked down on steroids as they are now? That book would have been much better.
Canseco believes that MLB screwed him and states so in the book, and also cries racial discrimination. He has no love for the game as he says, and puts financial gain over the profession that made him famous and rich (at least for a time).
BTW - look for his ex-wife's spread in next month's Playboy. No joke.
<< <i>Canseco could have taken his info to MLB and offered to help clean up the game. Instead he decided to "write" a book and profit financially.
Look at it this way. Wouldn't the book have been better if MLB did not accept his help and he wrote about it? How about if MLB accepted his help and cracked down on steroids as they are now? That book would have been much better.
>>
Yeah, because as we all know, MLB and the union REALLY wanted to clean up the game.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
SoFLPhillyFan---hey don't forget about all that money Pete Rose has been bringing in for being innocent. And like we all truly believe that Canseco would walk in to Bud's office and say 'Have i got a story to tell you". Canseco wouldn't have made it past the security guard in the lobby. I don't like Canseco as well, but it to the man, he figured out how to make a buck off of it.
<< <i>Phillyfan - Which ex-wife? #1 or #2? >>
Jessica
<< <i>SoFLPhillyFan---hey don't forget about all that money Pete Rose has been bringing in for being innocent. And like we all truly believe that Canseco would walk in to Bud's office and say 'Have i got a story to tell you". Canseco wouldn't have made it past the security guard in the lobby. I don't like Canseco as well, but it to the man, he figured out how to make a buck off of it. >>
MLB is a much to blame as the players who juiced. They knew about the problem and ignored it, even let it happen because the gate was better as the power hitters came around. MLB needed to make up for the bad image after the strike.
I certainly do not think they would have taken Canseco up on his offer. But they would have had the chance and then he could have publicized it. Instead he chose to stick it to MLB and the fans as he has wanted to for years. This is the only way he knows in his ego inflated world.
Be a man, and do it with honor. The fans respect you more.
I'm too idealistic but hey, that's me.
<< <i>Phillyfan - Jessica is #2. I think that is the one that cheated with Tony Gonzalez of the Chiefs, not the one he rammed with his Jaguar. >>
I suppose so. The preview pic in the back of this month's Playboy doesn't look like she's been rammed too often.
<< <i>From SI.com:
Palmeiro's statement before Congress read as follows: "Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Rafael Palmeiro and I am a professional baseball player. >>
Perjury? Hardly? All he has to do is say "Well, it depends on what your definition of "is" is" in order to beat the rap.
Seriously, Baseball wants credibility. How about a one and done? One positive test of steroids and yerrrrrrrrrrrrrr out. Same with the NFL, except expand it to include illegal drugs and violent crime. It's time to take the roid heads, druggies and thugs out of sports.
Hummmmmmmmmmm?
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>
<< <i>
Perjury? Hardly? All he has to do is say "Well, it depends on what your definition of "is" is" in order to beat the rap.
>>
Let's not bring Presidents and their use of the english language into this conversation. I'm guessing you're a Bush supporter and I don't think you really want to be discussing his flip flop from "anyone that leaks gets fired" to "anyone that gets convicted gets fired," do you.
Anyway, let me say that I actually believe Palmeiro when he says he didn't intentionall take steroids...at least recently. Think about it. What possible reason would he have to take steroids in the last ten months? The spotlight could not be any brighter on the game or steroids. His career is 95% complete, so he has *very* little to gain and has a tremendous amount, including a potential HOF plaque, to lose.
It's not crazy to think that Palmeiro bought something at GNC that ended up triggering the drug test. I'm not saying that he should be completely excused because of that, but it is reasonable, isn't it?
In fact, I think it's LIKELY that Palmeiro didn't knowingly take steroids in the last ten or twelve months.
Nah, never mind!
Edit: Pedro as a Rookie! (He did bulk-up since those rookie days!)
rbd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
I just don't understand how a person can accept all the accolades that go with an accomplishment such as a 3000th hit and not be torn up inside when they are knowingly cheating.
In some ways, I think the 10 game suspension for Ralphy this close to his 3000th hit is the worse possible scenario for him. He'd be better off with a year suspension . . . people would forget about it by then.
I'm guessing the happiest person in baseball right now is Kenny Rogers . . . finally someone else for the press to go interview.
No, we don't 'know'. But who cares? All knowledge exists on a continuum of probability. In a sense we don't really 'know' anything. However, I think we can be 'pretty sure' that Palmiero has been cheating for at least 13 years, and maybe longer. Ditto for McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Bret Boone, etc. The Hall of Fame isn't a criminal court; nobody should have to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. All we should have to say is 'we have good reason to believe you jeopardized the integrity of the game, so we're not putting you in Cooperstown. Sorry if that bums you out."
In the final analysis I guess it just frosts me that these jerk-asses are going to get a chance to give an induction speech while guys like Alan Trammel are left out in the cold.
<< <i>Gary Sheffield, have you lost weight lately?
Hummmmmmmmmmm? >>
True, but at least Sheffield (and Giambi, as far as that goes) can still hit the ball. Look at Bret Boone-- what a total fraud that guy is. You take away the clear and the cream and suddenly he plummets below the Mendoza line.
This 'knowingly' garbage is just that - garbage. Raffy thinks he'll get off in the court of public opinion for saying it that? He's going to be crucified with a loud resounding chorus of 'boos' everywhere he goes. I suspect he'll retire this year and slink off into oblivion.
SD
<< <i>Raffy continues to deny he 'knowingly' took steroids. Are you kidding me? You know your body better than anyone else, and you start hitting home runs after you are 30 more so than any other player in history not named Bonds or Ruth, and you don't think that anyone would notice?
This 'knowingly' garbage is just that - garbage. Raffy thinks he'll get off in the court of public opinion for saying it that? He's going to be crucified with a loud resounding chorus of 'boos' everywhere he goes. I suspect he'll retire this year and slink off into oblivion. >>
Well said. First off, everyone knows you're lying. And second, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if you 'knowingly' took it or not. If the guy driving the Coke truck gets popped for THC does he get a free pass if he tells his boss he didn't know his wife mixed in some Panama Red in the brownie batter? No. Life isn't fair. Move on.
This makes Griffey Jr. look a little better in comparison. I wonder if this will help the HOF case of players like Andre Dawson, Will Clark, and Mark Grace.
I think you will see a groundswell of support for the hall for guys like Dale Murphy and Jim Rice especially next year when no overwhelming players are elligible.
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>
Let's not bring Presidents and their use of the english language into this conversation. I'm guessing you're a Bush supporter and I don't think you really want to be discussing his flip flop from "anyone that leaks gets fired" to "anyone that gets convicted gets fired," do you.
>>
Wow, a liberal scorned. Still sore about that Gore thing, huh?
Amazing how those Dems cannot enjoy the humor of things without turning anything into a political accusation. For your info I am an independent. I support Bush on some things but not others. I choose not to be one of the sheep that has to go 100% with their political party's beliefs no matter how bad or immoral they are. Notice that in my statement I didnt call you a Clinton supporter, but I guess we already know that, dont we?
What a great card!
Now that this has come out, I'm not sure what I think. I think it's a sad, sad day for baseball. We'll know more in the next few days I'm sure. But this doesn't seal him out of the hall, I'm sure of that.
Before you argue too much, Tim Kurkjian of ESPN said today that if he were voting today, he'd still vote Palmeiro into the Hall.
The difference between him and us? He gets a vote that actually counts.
If the 'rap' is the result of getting a hummer from an intern then you shouldn't have to do anything to beat it, since it shouldn't have come up in the first place.
I bet he took something that he was told couldn't be detected. But in any case, 'I didn't know' is no excuse. Nobody else in the Free World gets away with that as an excuse when they flunk a whiz test.
All these clowns band together in times like this. They still have friends who play, etc. etc. More disturbing to me are the BBWAA members who have come out and said they'll still vote for him because 'we can't prove anything'.
SD
<< <i>"Well, it depends on what your definition of "is" is" in order to beat the rap."
If the 'rap' is the result of getting a hummer from an intern then you shouldn't have to do anything to beat it, since it shouldn't have come up in the first place. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>"Well, it depends on what your definition of "is" is" in order to beat the rap."
If the 'rap' is the result of getting a hummer from an intern then you shouldn't have to do anything to beat it, since it shouldn't have come up in the first place. >>
That's nice, Dallas.
I'm not going to get into this debate. To paraphrase H.L Mencken, 'The wonderful thing about democracy is that the people get the government they deserve. And they usually get it good and hard.'
Let's just wait and see how kind history is to the Bush administration. I can't believe that history will be less forgiving of a tax and spend' administration than a 'don't tax and spend' administration, but I suppose stranger things have happened. In the meantime I hope you're getting a your dollar's worth of entertainment out of the Iraq War.
<< <i>Let's just wait and see how kind history is to the Bush administration. I can't believe that history will be less forgiving of a tax and spend' administration than a 'don't tax and spend' administration, but I suppose stranger things have happened. In the meantime I hope you're getting a your dollar's worth of entertainment out of the Iraq War. >>
You have me confused with a Bush Kool-Aid drinker, I detest the "spend" part of both administrations. If we'd all stop drinking the stuff, and recognize that Clinton was unfit for office and Bush has been financially reckless, maybe we could start to prove Mencken wrong. But as long as a majority believe that Presidential perjury is A-OK, or that spending a trillion dollars we don't have is A-OK - and nearly everyone has drunk from one glass of Kool-Aid or the other - then we deserve whatever we get.
As O'Reilly says, I'll give you the last word (since I took the first shot).
I loathe the Bush administration. But I'm not going to resort to ad hominem attacks when asked to criticize him; which is exactly what a majority of the Clinton detractors love to do whenever the issue arises. Look at George Bush-- he's a dippy little playboy, distinguished himself at Andover as a cheerleader, and slinked through Yale with C's. He's also at least dabbled in cocaine. If anyone wants to lob personal attacks at our current President then they have all the ammo they'll ever need. But all this is utterly beside the point, since it doesn't address his policy decisions; which, ultimately, is how an administration should be evaluated.