huge VAM news from PCGS (updated)

DennisH · July 31, 2005 8:46AM

Hello fellow VAMaholics!

Great news from PCGS was announced at the ANA show in San Francisco. I was not there myself, but I'm passing along information from two VAM buddies who were.

Bottom line: PCGS has begun making VAM attributions (Morgan and Peace dollars) on holders.

A large collector who a few months ago submitted several hundred mostly-ANACS coins to PCGS so the graders could 'practice' verifying and making attributions (and cross them over), got back about 100 of them at the show. Coins are identified on the labels as being either Top 100 or Hot 50, along with the date, VAM number, and a short 'VAM name'.

However, PCGS is not yet accepting more coins for grading/crossover/attribution. This is apparently coming later this year. I was told by the collector who submitted the first large batch of coins that he understands VAM attributions will cost $15 in addition to whatever level of grading service is used.

PCGS also distributed a list of VAMs it will begin attributing, along with the new corresponding PCGS coin numbers. I do not have a copy of the list, but will have one this coming week. It is apparently a large one, numbering more than 200 coins in all.

I will pass along more information in this thread as I receive it, and if anyone else hears something, please share it as well!

wam98 · July 31, 2005 8:49AM

fc · July 31, 2005 8:53AM

i am going to play the devil's advocate here.

by making this decision to label Vams on the slab, does PCGS expect to get
1000s if not more of new submissions based on this alone?

the marketing team is in control.

numonebuyer · July 31, 2005 8:53AM

About time.

ziggy29 · July 31, 2005 8:55AM

Sure, it's another opportunity to extract MORE fees from people who already had their VAMs slabbed without the attribution...

DNADave · July 31, 2005 8:56AM

I was told by the collector who submitted the first large batch of coins that he understands VAM attributions will cost $15 in addition to whatever level of grading service is used.

Yet another reason I'll keep sending mine to ANACS. Didn't PCGS hire a grader from ANACS recently?

LeeG · July 31, 2005 8:56AM

This is good news for PCGS but bad news for ANACS.

dwssws · July 31, 2005 8:56AM

Dennis, that is great news and thank you for the info. Hopefully we will be able to submit our coins SOON for attribution

TUMUSS · July 31, 2005 8:57AM

BOUT' TIME.....Ummmm....I mean....That's great news.

fc · July 31, 2005 8:59AM

doesn't this suck for the people who used to cherrypick vams in slabs?

if i was a vam collector, all this fuss would make me nervous about finding
good examples without more competition.

numonebuyer · July 31, 2005 9:00AM

It takes a considerable amount of time to attribute or verify an attribute on some of the VAMs. I for one am quite happy that PCGS is going to offer this service as well as the picture taking service.

PerryHall · July 31, 2005 9:02AM

It took them long enough. I wouldn't pat them on the back for doing something they should have been doing years ago and that others have been doing for a long time. Then again, I'm not a Kool-aid drinker.

DennisH · July 31, 2005 9:08AM

I believe there are a couple of significant nuances here regarding PCGS finally doing VAMs:

1. Unlike other services which designate VAMs, I don't doubt for a second that PCGS will financially back the accuracy of designations they make. In other words, if they get a designation wrong and it makes a difference in the value of the coin, they will make you whole. In talking to people who have previously bought both ANACS and NGC attributed VAMs that were incorrectly attributed, the only thing they got from either service was "Oops, sorry about that."

2. One or more brand new VAM Registry sets are coming at PCGS and, as is already the case with other Registry sets, only PCGS coins will be allowed to play. As a result, there will quickly be incredible pressure in the marketplace as Registry participants seek out and cross the toughest VAMs, and then seek out and cross progressively higher grade examples.

TWODOGS · July 31, 2005 9:21AM

<<

This is good news for PCGS but bad news for ANACS. >>

Bad news for ANACS? If you know the VAM # it costs a dollar to have it attributed on the slab.

DorkGirl · July 31, 2005 9:52AM

OK, so that's $30 for the slab, $15 for the VAM #.......that's more than I usually pay for the Morgan

I'll stick with raw

But I'm happy for you guys that like the registry.

LeeG · July 31, 2005 9:56AM

TWODOGS I'm just stating that I feel ANACS is going to loose some business due to PCGS attributing VAM's now.

p8nt · July 31, 2005 10:01AM

I think it will be worth it for some of the higher end rare VAMS. But $15 on top of the grading fee. Thats $33 at the absolute lowest tier. I wont be sending in any VAMS.

Edited to fix math.. I was thinking Modern tier but then realized Morgans would be Economy.

anablep · July 31, 2005 10:01AM

So its good news that PCGS is doing what ANACS has been doing for years and at $14 more per coin at that???

Meh.

PCGS= $$$$
IMHO

Darkmane · July 31, 2005 10:43AM

i was thinking what others here have said. bad news for anacs.

BAJJERFAN · July 31, 2005 11:04AM

HMM I just sent in 2 for VAM attribution with my most recent submission and with no extra $$$ either. I wonder if they will just grade the coins then.

techeff · July 31, 2005 11:12AM

I'll believe it when I see it!

TWODOGS · July 31, 2005 11:32AM

<< TWODOGS I'm just stating that I feel ANACS is going to loose some business due to PCGS attributing VAM's now. >>

I know what you're saying Lee, but I don't think they'll even notice. Anacs doesn't stop at the "Top 100" and the "Hot 50." There's a lot of other interesting VAM's out there.

Plus they do all the Breen and FS numbers for other coins. I think it's just going to be a drop in the bucket.

Coinhusker1 · July 31, 2005 11:42AM

<< However, PCGS is not yet accepting more coins for grading/crossover/attribution. This is apparently coming later this year. I was told by the collector who submitted the first large batch of coins that he understands VAM attributions will cost $15 in addition to whatever level of grading service is used.. >>

Not totally great news . . . . we still have to wait for some unspecified date in the future to begin submissions (2 months, 5 months, when?) and they are charging $15 for what NGC charges $7 for, and ANACS charges $1. I was thinking of using this service, but I am now leaning toward sticking with NGC.

Wolf359 · July 31, 2005 11:45AM

Yes, PCGS may do around 250 Morgan and Peace vams. More than NGC, but not as much as ANACS. I was lucky to see some samples
Thursday at ANA.

They look impressive! And yes, I think economy at $18, plus $15 for the vam is steep. However, the retail back on re-sale will be worth it....

Edited to correct economy price

numonebuyer · July 31, 2005 12:05PM

I can't imagine that NGC will not respond to this in some way.

What do you all think about that statement?

VamCollector · July 31, 2005 12:19PM

Yes, its great that they are finally doing what ANACS, NGC (and other services that I won't mention) have been doing for years but I think $15 is pretty steep compared to what the other two charge. Except for high premium varieties I wouldn't pay it. A good number of the more common 8TFs (VAMs 1,2,4,6,12,17,19,21, etc.) would not be worth an extra $15 (at least to me) to have the # on.

BAJJERFAN · July 31, 2005 1:17PM

<< I can't imagine that NGC will not respond to this in some way. >>

I thought that NGC had been doing this for a long time. I have seen lots of their holders with VAM numbers on them.

numonebuyer · July 31, 2005 1:21PM

You are correct. My mistake. Does NGC have the same approach that PCGS is proposing?

DennisH · July 31, 2005 1:26PM

Economy is currently $18... which means the cheapest VAM-designated coins are likely to be $33 each.

777 · July 31, 2005 2:53PM

NGC.... LOOK OUT

777 · July 31, 2005 2:55PM

ANACS.... LOOK OUT

VamCollector · July 31, 2005 5:10PM

<< ANACS.... LOOK OUT

>>

How so?

DennisH · August 1, 2005 2:28AM

I have received what I believe is actually only a partial list of the VAMs PCGS has decided to begin attributing. (I believe it is a partial list because there are no 1878 7TF R78 or 7TF R79 coins listed at all, nor any 1878 7/8 coins. In addition, the first coin that is listed is an 1878 8TF VAM 14. I believe there is a missing sheet with 52 additional VAMs that was mistakenly not included in the group.)

My list has 172 Morgan VAMs and 52 Peace VAMs. My guess is there are actually 224 Morgan VAMs. Each has a corresponding seven-digit PCGS coin number that begins with 101. I tried inputting several of these coin numbers into the PCGS online Pop Report page and some already have pops. Many others don't. For instance, try inputting #1012028 and see what you get.

I'll post more information as I get it.

777 · August 1, 2005 4:42AM

How so.. I think? just think? they may lose alot of business? seems all the collectors I know what only pcgs !

DennisH · August 1, 2005 6:15AM

This just in:

I just received another copy of the PCGS VAMs attribution list, and it turns out my first source was missing TWO of the pages! The actual number of coins is 275 Morgans and 52 Peace dollars.

moosesr · August 1, 2005 9:50AM

Dennis

Is the 1928-S vam-4 peace dollar included in that list?

Thanks,
Charlie

DennisH · August 1, 2005 9:53AM

Charlie:

Sorry, but no. The only 1928-S on the list is the VAM 3 Doubled Motto.

Peaceman · August 2, 2005 12:52AM

Dennis, Which are the other 2 Peace $ other than the current 50? 22 5b? another?

pharmer · August 2, 2005 1:03AM

This is good news. My initial thought was that it could lead to varieties in general getting designated by pcgs outside of the "error coin" designation, but I think I know why they may not go there. On Lincolns, for example, they would have to choose between the various numbering systems, and which would they choose? At least with VAM's, there is just one system in place.

DennisH · August 2, 2005 1:35AM

Peaceman:

Since I'm not a Peace VAMer and the list from PCGS does not note whether the coins are Top 100 or Hot 50, the best thing for me to do is post the whole list:

1921 VAM 3
1922 VAM 1A
1922 VAM 1F
1922 VAM 2A
1922 VAM 2C
1922 VAM 2E
1922 VAM 2F
1922 VAM 4
1922 VAM 5
1922 VAM 5A
1922 VAM 5B
1922 VAM 6
1922 VAM 7
1922 VAM 8
1922 VAM 12A
1922-D VAM 3
1922-D VAM 4
1922-D VAM 7
1922-S VAM 3
1923 VAM 1A
1923 VAM 1B
1923 VAM 1C
1923 VAM 1D
1923 VAM 1E
1923 VAM 1F
1923 VAM 1-O
1923 VAM 1V
1923 VAM 2
1923 VAM 3
1923-D VAM 2
1923-S VAM 1C
1924 VAM 1A
1924 VAM 2
1924 VAM 5A
1924 VAM 8A
1924-S VAM 3
1925 VAM 1A
1925 VAM 3
1925 VAM 5
1925-S VAM 2
1925-S VAM 3
1926 VAM 2
1926-S VAM 4
1926-S VAM 5
1927 VAM 2
1927-D VAM 2
1927-S VAM 3
1928-S VAM 3
1934-D VAM 3
1934-D VAM 4
1934-S VAM 3
1935-S VAM 4

Peaceman · August 2, 2005 2:23AM

They added the 22 5B and the 23 1V and renamed the 24 1c the 8A.........

Coinhusker1 · August 2, 2005 2:48AM

<< As we approach America's Bicentennial, this historic silver dollar is one of the most valued reminders of our national heritage RICHARD NIXON >>

One of my favorite quotes!!

huge VAM news from PCGS (updated)

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