Morgan DMPL: ANACS, vs. PCGS vs. NGC

968FireHawk

Is there a difference between these services, in terms of price and grading standards? Does ANACS trade at a discount?

Trying to get a feel for the market in general for PL and DMPL Morgans.

Also, trying to get a feel for a 1904-O MS64 DMPL ANACS coin. It has good eye appeal. Any idea what it's worth?

Thank you!

nwcs

Yes, they each have a little different standard. I don't think any of them trade at a discount per se so long as the coin is all there.

morgannut2

First of all it's NOT DMPL (Deep Mirror Prooflike) for NGC-- it's DPL (Deep Prooflike)-- There's a reason for the difference. A NGC DPL Morgan can easily have attractive cameo contract and be reflective, but sometimes (not always) the fields do NOT look exactly like a bathroom mirror. Instead, they have a slightly grainy texture and it is difficult to read newsprint (although backwards!!) in the reflection. PCGS would call the same coin PL (prooflike). To be SURE a coin meets PCGS DMPL requirements, it must not be grainy or have die polish marks that would keep you from seeing small letters at more than 6-7 full inches from the surface.

Some ANACS DMPL/Cameo and NGS DPL Morgans do meet PCGS definitions of DMPL. But many do not, and can have a 100% or more discount, because in fact they would be called PL by PCGS. DMPL's can be worth as much as 10 times their counterparts in PL, so the fact is most knowledgeable dealers try to cross all uncommon/expensive DPL and ANACS DMPL coins to PCGS if there is no problem-- Be carefull of thumbed cheeks also on ANACS DMPL MS-65/6 Morgans as they were getting through for a short while. Nearly every auctiion has one----Good luck!

coinbuf

In my experience to get the DMPL at PCGS the coin must be a full cameo.

Chris

Myqqy

Be carefull of thumbed cheeks also on ANACS DMPL MS-65/6 Morgans as they were getting through for a short while. Nearly every auctiion has one----

How does one spot a thumbed cheek morgan, especially in an online auction? What time period were these getting through anacs?

michael

most of the time a pcgs dmpl is a dmpl

some of the time an ngc dpl is dpl

less than some of the time an anx dmpl is dmpl

morgannut2

<< <i>In my experience to get the DMPL at PCGS the coin must be a full cameo.

Chris >>



They can be tough on the 1880's stuff, but no, after 1895 there is rarely a cameo at all on PCGS DMPL Morgans. The fields do have full 6-7" mirrors but there is what's called "silver" or brilliant contrast with little or no frosty cameo contrast of the devices with the fields.

coinbuf

<<Thet can be tough on the 1880's stuff, but no, after 1895 there is rarely a cameo at all on PCGS DMPL Morgans. The fields do have full 6-7" mirrors but there is what's called "silver" or brilliant contrast with little or no frosty cameo the devices.>>

Thanks morgannut2 you are correct and I should have clarified; my statement and experience is baised upon 1880's coins.

Chris

morgannut2

I'm not exact on the date, but first discussed it with 2 NGC representatives regarding several auction lots at the Baltimore ANA in 2002. They claimed they had noticed it for "awhile". I know no way to see a thumbed cheek from an online image.
In a sale preview, everyone has their own method-- but the one NGC showed me is by tilting the coin at an angle to a light source and looking for a color shift or contast on the cheek. Sometimes there is a suble line even, between one color of silver and another across--almost green tint--across the cheek. And then there's the standard lite thin hairlines that go in one direction--the way it was thumbed; NOT to be confused with straight roller marks in the frost.

If anyone can tell thumbed cheeks online I'd be most appreciative to hear--

968FireHawk

Thanks guys. Can a DMPL or DPL coin have toning? Is it less desirable if so? I know it's subjective, but what is the general feel among DMPL/DPL specialists towards toning?

The ANACS 1904-O MS64 DMPL I am thinking about has some toning around the edges..... I have yet to look at it in person, but want to do my homework before I make the trip.....

How much is it worth?

777

I prefer ONLY pcgs myself; [on the anacs 04o in 64] [$75] the cc dollar pictured next to my thread is a pcgs dmpl cc, this is what one should look like in deep mirror proof-like.......

stev32k

Here is an ANACS MS64 DMPL do you think it would cross to PCGS or NGC?

coinbuf

That has the cameo look PCGS looks for in this date, looks clean enough I'd say it has a shot to cross.

Chris

weresteve

<< <i>Here is an ANACS MS64 DMPL do you think it would cross to PCGS or NGC? >>



Possible shot at PL depending upon how the graders felt that day ... but ... my guess would be no DMPL or PL due to the toning in the fields. Had an 1898 Morgan that should have been MS62DMPL but just got MS62 because of a large spot of toning on the obverse.

dragon

It's amazing sometimes how much misinformation gets passed around here.

PerryHall

<< <i>It's amazing sometimes how much misinformation gets passed around here. >>



Such as?

Dog97

<<<It's amazing sometimes how much misinformation gets passed around here.>>>
If any misinformation has been passed around rebuke it or you have no point and your post is useless.


From past experience 968FireHawk's 04-O would probably only make PL @ PCGS.
I don't think stev32k's 85-O would DMPL @ PCGS because of the lack of clarity and the white specks in the obv field.
Toning won't preclude the DMPL designation unless it deminishes the reflectivity of the fields.

JRocco

What about a coin that ANACS slabs as a DMPL CAMEO like this.

dorkkarl

seems like your getting a awful lot of plastic baloney bias, so from someone who doesn't give a rats rear-end about plastic brands (& therefore has NO BIAS whatsoever), i'd say that anacs, pcgs & ngc are just about on-par for what qualifies as dmpl, dpl, heavy cam, whatever they call it.

all other blurbage about this plastic says vs. that plastic is most likely just a bunch of blow-hard baloney.

K S

BASEagle

<< <i>Thanks guys. Can a DMPL or DPL coin have toning? >>



I've wondered the same thing.

A while back, mayber a year or two, there was a thread in which Laura Legend posted something about a red toned DMPL. In my mind, DMPL should be white, how can they reflect if they are red? When asked about it, Laura, in her sweet sensitive manner replied "Of course a DMPL can be toned, you idiot."

Well, maybe I paraphrased a little. But that was the gist of her reply.

Mike

ebaytrader

<< <i>seems like your getting a awful lot of plastic baloney bias, so from someone who doesn't give a rats rear-end about plastic brands (& therefore has NO BIAS whatsoever), i'd say that anacs, pcgs & ngc are just about on-par for what qualifies as dmpl, dpl, heavy cam, whatever they call it.

all other blurbage about this plastic says vs. that plastic is most likely just a bunch of blow-hard baloney. >>




I almost totally

I believe there some DPL NGC pieces that aren't qite there. On the other hand, some of the nicest dcam pieces I've seen have been in ANCS holders.

BAJJERFAN

"Of course a DMPL can be toned, you idiot."

If it was a DMPL BEFORE it was toned then its surely still a DMPL AFTER its toned.

coinkat

Use your best judgment in buying, but buy those dates that are worth buying... I know that sounds strange, but it is true. There are about 20-30 dates of the series that are available... look for those that rarily show up.

Dog97

<<<seems like your getting a awful lot of plastic baloney bias, so from someone who doesn't give a rats rear-end about plastic brands (& therefore has NO BIAS whatsoever), i'd say that anacs, pcgs & ngc are just about on-par for what qualifies as dmpl, dpl, heavy cam, whatever they call it.

all other blurbage about this plastic says vs. that plastic is most likely just a bunch of blow-hard baloney.>>>


Rest assured that is not just a bunch of blow-hard baloney. Some of us do give a rats rear-end enough about plastic brands & Deep Mirror Prooflikes from submitting Morgans to the various grading services to know that there is a variance in the DMPL standards between grading services to make an informed & unbiased reply to the thread topic.