Exquisite basketball is killing the Hobby! Pray they never come out with a Baseball version!!

joelwalter

Has anyone else noticed that Exquisite is killing the older basketball stuff.. Here's a few examples...

1998 Alonzo Mourning Credentials..$71, before Exquisite..$150
1997 Shaq Super Rave..$70, before Exquisite $125
and there are about a million more examples like this

I know most people here collect vintage, but is anyone worried that a Baseball and Football version could have the same affects in those sports???

WinPitcher

Joel can you really tie that together?

could some other factor (s) have caused that decline?

SD

joelwalter

The only significant thing that has happened that could affect these cards is the release of Finest, Ultimate, and Exquisite.
Alot of cards have shown sharp declines in the last few months, this isn't something that happened over a 10 years span.

I think that when certain players like JR Smith, Iguadola flop people will regret buying their Exquisite for $2300+

I'm just saying, that if you sell alot of modern baseball, a product like Exquisite will absolutely kill the value of stuff that is hitting the market right now. Great for buyers but bad for sellers.

iamthegreatcornholio

Baseball is waaaaaaaaaaaay more popular than basketball so when I first heard about exquisite, I was curious as to why they chose basketball. I guess their marketing shows that despite the smaller number of basketball collectors, more of them are prone to gambling. Moreover, almost every high dollar baseball product is geared towards vintage. I’ll go out on a limb here to say that a Ty Cobb jersey is probably a little more expensive than some 18 year old kid’s basketball jersey…

fsjeter

Simply put, they (Upper Deck) capitalized on the popularity of LeBron James and Carmello Anthony while getting lucky with the emergence of Dwayne Wade. It takes too long for Baseball prospects to pay dividends. I don't think you'll be seeing an Exquisite product for baseball. Football, on the other hand, is a definite possibility. If they released it last year late in the season they probably would have done really well based on the popularity of Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Kevin Jones, and Julius Jones.

Scott

Edited to add: I wouldn't be surprised if they asked and got turned down by the NFLPA.

Ahmanfan

older inserts like those you mentioned are killed by:

the passing of time
and the fact that so many products are on the market

it's not just exquisite that's killing prices, it's that the cards you mentioned are 3+ years old now and there is so much more low #'d stuff on the market these days.

John

mtcards

I would actually argue that these cards were never worth the price mentioned and in fact are really worth less than half of the price they are now. You could also argue that these inserts and other inserts have ruined the value of base cards of a set. But then again, Im in the mood to argue

helionaut

I think the season ending had a bigger impact on basketball prices than Exquisite's release. Plus prices on late 90s inserts are like ice cream on a summer day (soft).

As for Exq baseball and football, I would be surprised if something of that level didn't appear. There are already a plethora of $50-100 packs, so what's a few hundred more? Add another GU card, a couple more base cards, another scrub auto, a couple Ruth autos they claim to be inserted into packs, and there you go. I can tell you that I'd be first in line for a Billy Butler Exquisite auto/patch #/99, but I wouldn't be the one opening the pack.

Stone193

<< <i>The only significant thing that has happened that could affect these cards is the release of Finest, Ultimate, and Exquisite.
Alot of cards have shown sharp declines in the last few months, this isn't something that happened over a 10 years span.

I think that when certain players like JR Smith, Iguadola flop people will regret buying their Exquisite for $2300+

I'm just saying, that if you sell alot of modern baseball, a product like Exquisite will absolutely kill the value of stuff that is hitting the market right now. Great for buyers but bad for sellers. >>


How Exquisite affects the concomitant products of the same year is an interesting question Joel.

But I still fail to see how exquisite affected cards from 1997 or 1998?

Plus the cards you illustrated are not RC's but rather hi end special cards - and aren't those extremely prone to fluctuation? And, unfortunately in the downward direction? I'm not familiar with those cards - are they inserts?

Just curious
mike

Nosoupyou

I would say that Alonzo himself hurt the value of his cards. Even at $70 it's still way overvalued. He's a total stiff and barely a role player now. We'll be saying the same thing about the cards of this decade in a few years. It is a "house of cards", no pun intended, how many "limited" Jordan cards numbered to 23 are there? Not to mention numbered to a 100 etc. He probably signs 700 or 800 cards a year and that is considered limited. How many Lebron "limited" cards do you think there will be before he retires. The market is already crashing in the sense that card companies are going out of business because people aren't willing to pay for all these variations.

What's the answer, there is none. Card companies and modern collectors are backed into a corner. I wish I could "short" this market somehow. Kids don't care and they can't afford the product.

Buy graded vintage and forget the rest.

ctsoxfan

Exquisite may be "killing" the hobby, but not for the reason mentioned at the start of the thread. Some believe that a product like this widens the gap between adults who can afford it, and kids who can't. At first, I never thought it would fly - now, as I wait for my case of 2005 Exquisite to arrive, I'm sold on it. It's a high end product aimed at adults, loaded with cards like MJ, Lebron, Wade, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Julius Erving autographs - and much more. The fact that these cards exist has no bearing on the plethora of 90's inserts, which never could bring anywhere near "book" value even before Exquisite was announced.

As far as baseball being more popular - yes it is, but I'd bet in modern cards, basketball is a lot closer than you think. As mentioned, it takes years for a baseball rookie (sometimes) to make a name for himself, with basketball they either succeed right away, or flame out just as fast. Football is a close second in this respect, and I thought for sure UD would do a football Exquisite last year to capitalize on Big Ben's hobby stature. A baseball Exquisite might work, but it would have to be loaded with HOF players, and rely little on current prospects.

Finally, what would the NFLPA have to do with UD wanting to do a football Exquisite product? UD already puts out a ton of football cards, many of them high end - I don't see the point there.

iamthegreatcornholio

I think I came on a little too strong in my first post..

Ct - are you gonna open the case or keep it sealed?

Definitely for the high roller though. With $22,000 you could buy...

1. a new car - guaranteed to depreciate, but useful

2. a psa 7 52 topps mantle - most recognizable card in the hobby, will most likely appreciate.

3. this link

ctsoxfan

<< <i>Ct - are you gonna open the case or keep it sealed? >>



Opening it, without a doubt! Though, if this edition follows last years trend, cases of 03-04 Exquisite are now worth $4500 - so, keeping it sealed is tempting. But, what fun is that?

jrdolan

I feel ancient when someone refers to 1997 and '98 as being "older basketball stuff."

iamthegreatcornholio

<< <i> Opening it, without a doubt! Though, if this edition follows last years trend, cases of 03-04 Exquisite are now worth $4500 - so, keeping it sealed is tempting. But, what fun is that? >>



Well best of luck then! I think a lot of people will keep it sealed because of what has happened to last years product, which may keep it from going up. And I think the first one offered of any big insert goes for the most so all the more reason to bust away!

pandrews

<< <i>

<< <i>Ct - are you gonna open the case or keep it sealed? >>



Opening it, without a doubt! Though, if this edition follows last years trend, cases of 03-04 Exquisite are now worth $4500 - so, keeping it sealed is tempting. But, what fun is that? >>



yes definitely open it!.. do a play-by-play of the bust here on the forums so i can live vicariously through you..


i seriously hope you pull the major bucks card this year, whatever it is.. (i know i wont be opening any)..

Stone193

I think we're going to have to throw CT a party, break out the Buds...sit back...and watch the scans come up on the screen!

I know I'm living thru him - cause if I bought the case, my wife would kick my ass all the way to the Alamodome!

mike

gosteelers

Wow, $22k for 150 cards!!! Amazing...

What are the best possible pulls?

Mark

ctsoxfan

Cool - I could use some cold ones as I rip that case! I will have the break and scans this weekend -

joestalin

UD could only do this with basketball. why? because the rookies in basketball for the most part cost little to nothing to make. I mean come one
you can probably count on one hand the number of basketball players that cost big coin to get. With baseball guys expect guys like Arod
and Jeter and Ryan and Mays, UD would have to spend more money on that.

UD is making a killing on this stuff!! They are putting the same number of autograph cards out in this product as any 5-10 dollar a pack
product, the only excpetion is that they are charging 600 a pack....whats the difference....a bunch more mid level patch autos. UD can
put out lots of eye candy but 95% of that is garbage.

Basketball collectors are the weakest of the group, they are impulse buyers and are always thinking about the big hit. Football is ruled
rookies and the high draft ones no less, UD has to sign those guys and has to pay them lots to sign cards. They have to do that in order
to keep up with DLP and Topps.

Baseball is the same way, but UD is not known for the rookie card, topps owns that, baseball collectors already expect value in a 100
dollar a pack product and UD couldn't afford that

UD owns basketball, they own Lebron and they own Kobe and they own MJ...they can do whatever they want....and they have. They better
keep basketball fresh because they are losing baseball big time!

JS

Axtell

<< <i>UD could only do this with basketball. why? because the rookies in basketball for the most part cost little to nothing to make. I mean come one
you can probably count on one hand the number of basketball players that cost big coin to get. With baseball guys expect guys like Arod
and Jeter and Ryan and Mays, UD would have to spend more money on that.
>>



And you don't think that it costs big dollars to get MJ or Bird autoed stuff? Not sure I follow your logic on this one. Baseball of course has a richer history of players, but I think that basketball has as many current and past stars to make a set like this work in both sports. Doesn't UD have a ton of exclusive licenses anyways with MLB players? And their acquisition of fleer surely gave them more, didn't it?


<< <i>
UD is making a killing on this stuff!! They are putting the same number of autograph cards out in this product as any 5-10 dollar a pack
product, the only excpetion is that they are charging 600 a pack....whats the difference....a bunch more mid level patch autos. UD can
put out lots of eye candy but 95% of that is garbage.
>>


I doubt that anything in a $600 pack is 'garbage'. And there surely must be a market, otherwise why would they have brought it back for a second season? I see football next for this product to hit.



<< <i>
Basketball collectors are the weakest of the group, they are impulse buyers and are always thinking about the big hit. >>


Cheap shot perhaps? How many baseball products are marketed with the hope of a big score? How many autos alone have you worked to get in your heritage sets? While the base heritage sets are nice, they are by no means incredibly valuable. It's the SPs, inserts, and auto's that are worth money. This is how all modern works, not just basketball.




<< <i>
Football is ruled by rookies and the high draft ones no less, UD has to sign those guys and has to pay them lots to sign cards. They have to do that in order
to keep up with DLP and Topps. Baseball is the same way, but UD is not known for the rookie card, topps owns that, baseball collectors already expect value in a 100
dollar a pack product and UD couldn't afford that. UD owns basketball, they own Lebron and they own Kobe and they own MJ...they can do whatever they want....and they have. They better keep basketball fresh because they are losing baseball big time!

JS >>



You don't think that if they brought out a high end, very high dollar product like that for football, or baseball, the same people buying it for basketball wouldn't spend it for the other sports? If not, even more so? Basketball likely has the smallest following of those three major sports....I bet exquisite products for any of those three major sports would make a killing.