What to do with a edgy buyer?
zef204
Posts: 4,742 ✭✭
I recently had an auction close for $2.99 for one PSA graded card. S/H was stated in the auction in 2 locations and I also have in all auctions "Please ask all questions prior to bidding."
I just got the following e-mail from this buyer:
<< <i>Hello, I received the card today but I have a couple of questions. Why did it take 4 days to get postmarked and why $3.50 for shipping when it cost you .60 cents? >>
How should I follow up with this.
I do not think mailing out 4 days after payment is too long and I also feel that when s/h is stated in the auction it should not be a problem after the person safely gets the card.
I do not want to open up the forum for thoughts on shipping costs, that has been discussed often on these boards and is the choice of a seller to make, and the buyer does not have to bid if they don't want to pay them.
I do want to know thoughts on how to handle this amicably. I would hate to get a neg on a $3 item but I have a feeling, whatever I tell this guy will be wrong in his eyes.
Let me know what you think...
jordan
0
Comments
This guy paid on Monday 7/18 and has the card in hand already.
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honestly, i wouldnt even respond to him..
Since I am not a full-time sports card dealer, it is sometimes difficult for me to get to a Post Office during the week. This week was one of those times, and I can only hope that you understand. I charge $3.50 shipping and handling for the majority of my auctions; this amount covers not only the cost of the postage, but also the cost of the packing materials, the fees to set up the auction, and other incidental costs associated with packaging the lots for shipment and getting them shipped. Obviously, auctions for items that sell for only a dollar or two would not be worthwhile - I would actually lose money on many of them - if I did not build these costs into the handling charge.
Thank you for your questions, and I hope you are pleased with the card.
-jordan
OR
B. It took 4 days because I am not going to rearrange my life so you can get one freakin' $3 card. I charged $3.50 for shipping because that's what it said in the auction terms that you didn't bother to read, Einstein.
Go away.
Either one sounds good to me.
SD
$3.50 is not too much to send a PSA graded card if it is packed well.
You may want to consider printing your own postage and shipping labels through Paypal. There is an option to print the label without showing the postage amount. I buy 81/2 x 11 blank sheets of label stock and print two labels per sheet to cut costs.
Paypal charges you 13 cents to print a 60 cent label, but this also gives you delivery confirmation. It has worked well for me and cleared up a few shipping problems when buyers were not home to accept a package.
Delivery in a week?? What's your eBay handle, I want to buy some of your cards!
thanks for the reply guys! I think I will start using the Paypal for shipping. My only problem with it is that I know that one card is .60 but I don't always know what the cost will be. What should I do about this. I hate dealing with surly women behind the desk at the USPS, who may be the most inefficient workers I have ever seen. I don't know why I haven't used the Paypal method before, buut I will try it.
Cardfan...eBay id is same as my handle here... zef204 and I always try and get my cards out within a few days and it rarely would take over a week for them to be in hand.
I think I will just not reply to this guy.
<< <i>It took 4 days because I am not going to rearrange my life so you can get one freakin' $3 card. I charged $3.50 for shipping because that's what it said in the auction terms that you didn't bother to read, Einstein.
Go away.
>>
That sounds great to me but I don't think it would be well received.
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Hi, I said I want Yogi Berra not Berk Ross.
Maybe that will confuse the buyer enough to leave it alone.
It'll be years before he can come up with a response.
Many seller do not charge extra shipping in order to gouge their buyers. They assume that buyers are savvy enough to figure shipping charges into their final bid, and charge extra shipping in order to mitigate Ebay final listing fees.
<< <i>thanks for the reply guys! I think I will start using the Paypal for shipping. My only problem with it is that I know that one card is .60 but I don't always know what the cost will be. What should I do about this. >>
Check out some cheap digital scales at Staples or another office supply store. They measure up to 5 lbs. and work well.
I can't believe i'm saying this---I agr, I agr, I agree with pandrews...let it go.
<< <i>"Even though it was stated, I still get kinda ticked when a card comes in a bubble envelope with 60 cents postage when I've paid up to 5.00. I could have bought a couple of nice PSA 56 Mantles with all the extra shipping I've paid for over the years."
Many seller do not charge extra shipping in order to gouge their buyers. They assume that buyers are savvy enough to figure shipping charges into their final bid, and charge extra shipping in order to mitigate Ebay final listing fees. >>
Which is againest Ebay rules....I just don't understand how a seller of ANYTHING expects no cost of doing business. You don't want to pay for listing an item on a website. You don't want to pay Paypal fees for collecting your money. You don't want to pay for gas to the post office. You don't want to pay for packing items. You don't want to pay for handling charges.....etc.
I wish I didn't have to pay for anything to run my business...No rent, No payroll, No insurance, No office supplies..........just pure profit!
<< <i>just pure profit! >>
thats the PURPOSE of a business.. brilliant..
Baseballcardsonly...don't be so narrow minded. We who sell obviously have costs. This computer cost me. My internet connection costs me. Having to have an extra bedroom to house my "inventory" costs me.
You are a horrible business man if you don't see it as a chance to make up some of your costs. Do you mark up your products at all? Why do you do that? Do you expect to not have any costs of doing business?
I think that most people charge this because it is commonplace and therefore by not doing it you are leaving money on the table. I think back in college an Econ professor told me that consistently leaving money on the table is bad business.
Its against the rules... Too many people here are caught up with that. Ever since we stopped playing kickball rules have gotten more and more grey. That's life. Do you ever drive 56 in a 55? YOU ARE breaking the rule!
Like I said in the beginning, I didn't want this to turn into ethics on the matter because with the shipping EXPLICITLY stated a bidder has all the info and the choice not to bid.
I think I will end up ignoring him and see what happens. Honestly though I would rather give him a complete refund, AND let him keep the card instead of getting a neg over $6.49.
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I have 4 employees, office and building costs out the ass....after only 6 yrs., had to replace two AC/Heater coils - 4 grand!!! A piece of equipment broke down - 600 bucks. And that's the tip of the iceberg!
Having said that - I have only one thing to say about 3.50 - that's fair.
I don't sell but it would be nice if all individuals would say the price is for shipping and handling in the description - that way there is no misunderstanding.
Heck, if you look at items being hawked on TV - an item for 19.99 - may have a ship/handling of 6.99!
That's a 35% bump! But, as was said many times - we should factor this into our decision to buy.
mike
<< <i>A. Dear Sir,
Since I am not a full-time sports card dealer, it is sometimes difficult for me to get to a Post Office during the week. This week was one of those times, and I can only hope that you understand. I charge $3.50 shipping and handling for the majority of my auctions; this amount covers not only the cost of the postage, but also the cost of the packing materials, the fees to set up the auction, and other incidental costs associated with packaging the lots for shipment and getting them shipped. Obviously, auctions for items that sell for only a dollar or two would not be worthwhile - I would actually lose money on many of them - if I did not build these costs into the handling charge.
Thank you for your questions, and I hope you are pleased with the card.
-jordan
OR
B. It took 4 days because I am not going to rearrange my life so you can get one freakin' $3 card. I charged $3.50 for shipping because that's what it said in the auction terms that you didn't bother to read, Einstein.
Go away.
Either one sounds good to me. >>
Go with "A". I have had similar corresondence and a polite answer explaining your position usually leaves them feeling like the ass they acted like. It is sort of like holding up a mirror, plus as Jayhawk says you keep your feedback. If they are still nasty don't reply and block them from bidding in the future.
Damain
<< <i>Baseballcardsonly...don't be so narrow minded. We who sell obviously have costs. This computer cost me. My internet connection costs me. Having to have an extra bedroom to house my "inventory" costs me.
You are a horrible business man if you don't see it as a chance to make up some of your costs. Do you mark up your products at all? Why do you do that? Do you expect to not have any costs of doing business?
I think that most people charge this because it is commonplace and therefore by not doing it you are leaving money on the table. I think back in college an Econ professor told me that consistently leaving money on the table is bad business.
Its against the rules... Too many people here are caught up with that. Ever since we stopped playing kickball rules have gotten more and more grey. That's life. Do you ever drive 56 in a 55? YOU ARE breaking the rule!
>>
Hummm...where do I start?
So you are saying that you wouldn't have a computer/internet connection if you didn't sell cards on Ebay? I find that hard to believe. So that argument just doesn't hold water.
Scamming/Fraud are commonplace on Ebay, so I guess that makes it Ok for everyone else to do it.
Did your ECON professor teach you about "not biting the hand that feeds you"....Did he teach you that in todays world people have options? and customers who think they been overcharged/ripped off/Etc. can and will go somewhere else. Did he teach you that repeat business is one of the best ways to survive in business? I guess he just taught you to "take the money and run"
I guess since my business is not on the internet and I go out and collect my money face to face and shake hands with my customers and ask them "how was the product", "did it work for you" and tell them that I appreciate the business and to "call me again, if you need anymore" its a little harder for me to soak every penny I can get out of my customers. Its a little easier when your thousands of miles away on the internet.
The point I'm trying to make is EVERYONE on this site complains about sellers like Nomar, WIWAG, etc. for scamming people and then they turn around and break other Ebay rules by passing off Ebay fees to the buyers. I just love how you subjectively select which rules to follow. You can't condemn sellers for overgradeing product or using misleading titles, but then turn around bend other Ebay rules by overcharging for shipping!
And please don't talk to me like I'm a 4yr old...with that smart ass kickball statement! I do drive over the speed limit, but guess what?, I don't complain to the policeman when he pulls me over for speeding. I guess you hit him with the "everyone else is doing it, why can't I" argument.
by the way, I never said your s/h fee was high....I was commenting on someone saying that you should overcharge for s/h to cover ebay selling fees. That was what I was referring to. FWIW!
i agree with you to up to a point.
the real "bad" guys charge $1 for a $100 item, and then charge $90 shipping! this is both misleading and breaks ebay rules since shipping $ circumvents fees.
while making the buyer pay your ebay fees is against the rules, "handling" can still include one's time waiting at the post office, gas to and from, etc. some argue that this cost of business shouldn't be tacked on as "handling"; however, the "big" auction houses tack a hefty % of their cost of business on the buyer's end, and in many cases this is hundreds to thousands of dollars in "premiums", which vastly over-shadows any of this...
brian
You're comparison of this rule break to Nomar is similar to saying driving 56 is the same as stealing a '56 Chevy.
Either way, I appologize for being curt and if you felt that I was condescending, I am sorry for that as well. I was just trying to make a point as you commented on an area I tried to not have debated. It is constantly talked about on here and no one will convince anyone else to change their mind. Therefore I think the discussion on S/H is useless banter.
This is not my business either and I finish every deal in my business with a handshake and asking for repeat business as well. However I think the not leaving money on the table is a lot different from squeezing every penny.
Again, I did not mean to incite and was simply looking to share a story and ask for advice.
On a side note...
Tonight I had a lot of auctoins end and there was a specific item that went unsold. I got an e-mail about 5 minutes after that auction ended and the person told me...
<< <i>I tried to "snipe" this auction and my computer froze!!!! Could we agree to a price as no one else bid and send you payment via paypal immediatly? >>
I don't know how I feel about this either.
Oh well
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Julen
RIP GURU
<< <i>On a side note...
Tonight I had a lot of auctoins end and there was a specific item that went unsold. I got an e-mail about 5 minutes after that auction ended and the person told me...
<< <i>I tried to "snipe" this auction and my computer froze!!!! Could we agree to a price as no one else bid and send you payment via paypal immediatly? >>
I don't know how I feel about this either.
Oh well >>
ive had situations like that, and if the guy wants to paypal me, i let them.. i'll still sell them the card.. that doesnt mean "agree to a price".. because if he meant to snipe the card, he needs to pay what your starting bid was, otherwise tell him you'll just re-list it and it will sell for $39.00 like Lester Hayes..
<< <i>A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. >>
There's some question about whether $2.90 is a reasonable cost to package the card, address it and take it to the post office? What's going on here? If this were not a hobby, you couldn't get me to get my butt out of this chair for less than $1,000 in cash. For no charge, I'd slap $.60 on the thing and put it outside in my mailbox like Stone did. Come to think of it, I wouldn't. I'd need at least 3 bucks to find the stamps, figure out which side of them is the top, put them on the slab straight, print out the address, and walk out to the frigging box. Zef, my advice is don't worry about it. I don't know where all this grief is coming from, but it's not worth the time thinking about it. Whoever this jerk is, you don't want him/her for a customer in the future, it ain't worth it. If you want, I'll post an upside down Estridge or O'Donnell for you. No charge.
Today the question is always: How come S&H is $3.50 when the postage on the bubble mailer says 60 cents? Zef has spoken for himself, so I will speak for myself.
I charge $3.00 for small purchases. First, the postage on my bubble mailer is $1.38 to $1.80 depending on weight. That includes delivery confirmation, which I always use on anything over $10 to block the "I never received the card, gimme my money back" scams before they even start. The green sticker tells those shady folks, and there are some out there, not to bother on this one.
I put the graded card between two 3.25" x 5.5" squares of thick carboard and slide the whole sandwich into a resealable graded card sleeve. This is cleaner and works better than tape and the sleeve can be easily used by the buyer. If the card is above a certain value, say $50, instead of cardboard I use very tough fiberboard that I cut into graded card-sized slabs on my table saw. Either way, it goes into a bubble mailer. I make sure it's more than 3/4" thick so it won't go through the Official USPS Sorting Machine With The Crushing Rollers of Death (patent pending). If necessary, I insert more cardboard or bubble wrap to make it that thick. I also stamp FRAGILE on the front and back of the mailer.
Maybe I make 25 cents on this after the cost of 1st Class postage, delivery confirmation, the bubble mailer and other packing materials. Forget my time and the gas to get to the PO. I don't try to figure that out and pass it on. Nor the depreciated cost of my computer, nor a fraction of my monthly Internet bill, nor the cost of keeping my cat's dish full so Barney doesn't bug me when I'm in my office.
On cards of higher value, I charge $4.50 to $5.00 and use boxed Priority with delivery confirmation. Here I actually lose money, because Priority is $3.85 and confirmation is another 45 cents. The Priority box is free (I like the video mailer and order them 50 at a time, free, from USPS), but when you add other packing materials I am out a dime or two per parcel.
I think it's a matter of degree. I grumble as much as the next guy when I'm charge $5.00 for shipping and the card arrives with 60 cents postage and not very well protected. But I knew the S&H when I bid, so as long as the card arrived safely I don't have much grounds for complaint.
What really steams me are the auctions where no S&H is listed. The eBay S&H section says "See item description or contact seller for details," but the description says nothing about shipping and the seller ignores emails until the auction is over. Then the winner learns that S&H is $5.95 plus $2.20 insurance (required) on a $20 card. THAT should be grounds for disciplinary action by eBay.
Find out where he lives and give him a Wedgie.
$0.60 postage is just a part of the cost. There's the cost of the envelope, and as you noted, this isn't your full time job, so there's the opportunity cost of going to the post office instead of working.
bbcardsonly, comparing charging $3.50 for shipping and handling to what nomar does is a ridiculous comparison. It's not like the shipping charges weren't mentioned and clearly stated up front.
What he's doing by charging $3.50 for shipping and handling is not against ebay rules, and your insinuation that he's a 'fraud' or 'scamming' people is ridiculous at best.
I agree
I also agree that anyone can charge any amount they choose for shipping. As long as it is upfont.
SD
<< <i>Include a valium in your packing and tell buyer to take it upon opening.
Julen >>
Include a small rock hammer with instructions to hit himself in the head with it upon opening which will ease the pain of paying shipping.
<< <i> I agree
I also agree that anyone can charge any amount they choose for shipping. As long as it is upfont.
SD >>
I agree Steve. As long as it's there plain and simple in the auction description, I have no problem.
That being said, I also have no problem paying upwards of $5 -$6 shipping for a three figure PSA card. I want it here quickly and safely. But when I'm browsing around eBay for cheap game used or autos of my favorite team, I check out shipping charges immediately. And if someone wants to charge $3.50 for a single, I move on.
No questions, no hard feelings, nothing. But I move on. (the only exception is if you have multiple items I'm interested in and will combine shipping) All of you justifying $3.50 for shipping a single make perfect sense to me and I agree with your arguement, but I think you're losing more bids than you might think. There are too many other VERY GOOD sellers out three, as well as guys like me who aren't in it as a business, who will still send a card in a padded mailer for $1.50.
So like i said, $3.50 is fine as long as stated in the description, but don't underestimate the amount of potential bidders you may be throwing off. After all, it only takes two to get $40 for a Lester Hayes.
Shawn
Don't base your attitude on what you perceive his attitude to be.
Smile politely and give him a courteous answer.
Remember that road rage is not good.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Ebay thinks $9 for a seller to charge to ship one dvd via media mail is reasonable.
So $3.50 for a trading card is a steal!
I usually charge $5, but I include insurance and DC. If the item goes for decent money, I also will ship via priority with DC.
$2.90 is a drop in the bucket compared to this seller
Now here is a seller that charges Excessive Shipping
$173.27 to ship one book via media mail and that doesn't even include insurance!
Bottom line, to me, is if the shipping charge and class is stated in the auction, just reply and remind the buyer of that, and forget about it.
Now having said that, I've got to completely disagree with just about everything else and drop my opinions about charging $3.5 and not shipping right away...
I think that's just way too much for a single card not shipped priority mail, and also not shipping within a day or maybe 2 of receiving payment is too long. And I'm not preaching it's bad or dishones, but that's just my personal business approach. We usually charge $1-2 for uninsured first class up to $20 value or so, and $5.15 priority insured w/$50 insurance, and usually $5.95 - $6.50 priority full insurance for items up and over $100 value. And those are actual costs.
If you're selling cards for profit, what ever little you actually need to spend on shipping supplies or value you place on your time travelling to the P.O. is a business expense. Sure, we might make a nickel or dime here and there on the shipping, but sometimes it goes the other way too. This morning I paid $29 on an item where I charged $25 shipping. And it's worth it. 99% of our feedback from buyers are comments about the fast, secure shipping. We value that reputation and expect it to create more business and more revenue, certainly more than overcharging for shipping and dealing with angry e-mails ever would.
Obviously, all of us do business differently and there's no wrong or right. It's certainly fine to charge $3.5 and ship days after payment arrives. I don't think it's being dishonest or maliciously ripping people off, so long as it's advertised in the auction. But trying to excuse or justify that by claiming the charge includes other expenses and you don't do this full time so you can't ship every day etc etc is just that, an excuse...
<< <i> But trying to excuse or justify that by claiming the charge includes other expenses and you don't do this full time so you can't ship every day etc etc is just that, an excuse... >>
Just so I'm clear, are you saying that people with full-time jobs unrelated to what they sell on ebay should skip lunch or part of the workday to go to a post office every day? And that those people who sell an item for $0.99 are being unreasonable if they charge sufficient S&H so that they come out of the deal with more money than they went in to it with? Neither position makes even the tiniest bit of sense to me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you somehow.
Don't base your attitude on what you perceive his attitude to be.
Smile politely and give him a courteous answer.
Remember that road rage is not good.
mark i agree.
Yes, you are clear and understanding me perfectly. I think people with full-time jobs unrelated to what the sell on ebay do have a responsibility to skip lunch or part of the workday to go to a post office... presumably since selling on ebay is not a full time job, it shouldn't happen every day. And yes, those people who sell inexpensive items with unnecessarily high shipping costs are being unreasonable.
Sellers have a responsibility to be efficient sellers, even if they're only part time. And if a seller can't handle those responsibilities, people (repeatedly on these boards) will and should rightfully complain.
So many of the posts on this thread strike me as incredibly hypocritical. I'd bet many of the people suggesting to ignore or flame the buyer for complaining have themselves chimed in with equal conviction on the other side of the argument when a board member posted one of the many "seller overcharged my shipping and took too long to send my cards - should I neg?" posts.
One week from auction end to item delivered is NOT excessive.
As far as the case in point. The auctions ended on Sunday night. Those who paid that night through the time I went to the PO on Monday got their cards sent out immediately. This guy paid Monday night. The card went out on Thursday. He got it on Monday. I think everyone here would be pleased with that service.
Right now I have 12 items I won on e-bay which I have paid for over a week ago that I have yet to receive. I have not sent one e-mail nor do I intend to any time soon.
edited to add: One week from payment to delivered. It was 8 days from auction end to delivery. Or as PSA would say 4 business days.
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I have waited 10, 11 days for stuff I paid for seconds after an auction ended and never complained. i have also done what Zef states and ship on certain days.
SD
I think $3.50 for one graded card is a bit much, but that's neither here nor there. I usually charge $1.50-$2 for bubble mailer w/ dc, but that's me. I also buy my bubble mailers in lots of 100 (www.mailersandmore.com) for about $14. So @ .14 per bubble mailer, a paper towel to get the 3/4" thickness, a graded card bag with those cardboard dummy cards they put in packs and I'm up to 2 oz and 1.29 total shipping cost. But that's how I do it, everyone is different. And yes, I do lose a few cents on some transactions that are paid for with paypal etc. For the higher dollar items I usually bump my shipping to 2.50 and on items over $250 I always do shipping with sig confirmation, insurance and priority and let the buyers know that is how they will receive their item and what the minimum charge will be (3.85+1.80+ins), regardless of how they pay.
To me, the point is that you shipped within a few days of receiving payment and the item was recieved within a week (which is fantastic in my book!) You also clearly stated the shipping costs in the auction, and regardless of what I or anyone else sees as reasonable shipping costs, anybody should have calculated it into their bid or potentially not bid at all. This buyer chose to bid, chose to pay the 3.50 and got his card safely and quickly, I don't see what the problem is.
I think he deserves a response, though my first inclination would be to make it a bit terse, I think a polite (I was not able to ship your item with my Monday shipment as payment had not yet been recieved, so your item went out on my next trip to the PO. I appreciate your understanding and trust the card arrived safely and that you are happy with the card.)
What you are doing seems perfectly reasonable to me, and to be honest, 3.50 isn't that bad anyway...4.50-5.00 is where I start questioning it.
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BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>dallasactuary,
Yes, you are clear and understanding me perfectly. I think people with full-time jobs unrelated to what the sell on ebay do have a responsibility to skip lunch or part of the workday to go to a post office... presumably since selling on ebay is not a full time job, it shouldn't happen every day. And yes, those people who sell inexpensive items with unnecessarily high shipping costs are being unreasonable.
Sellers have a responsibility to be efficient sellers, even if they're only part time. And if a seller can't handle those responsibilities, people (repeatedly on these boards) will and should rightfully complain.
So many of the posts on this thread strike me as incredibly hypocritical. I'd bet many of the people suggesting to ignore or flame the buyer for complaining have themselves chimed in with equal conviction on the other side of the argument when a board member posted one of the many "seller overcharged my shipping and took too long to send my cards - should I neg?" posts. >>
Well, OK, I guess I did understand you even though, as I said, what you are saying does not make even the tiniest bit of sense to me.
I sell on ebay, part-time, and all of my auctions always end on Sunday night. Some people pay right away with PayPal, some people pay the next day, after that the checks and money orders start coming in, some on Tuesday, some on Wednesday, etc. So your statement " presumably since selling on ebay is not a full time job, it shouldn't happen every day" is simply incorrect.
Your contention that the seller does not have the right to come out of a deal with more money than he came in with... well, it has thrown me for a loop - I have no idea how to respond to that. Speechless. I am without speech. {Pause........} Nope, still nothing. {Longer pause.........} You're pulling my leg, right?
<< <i>Speechless. I am without speech. {Pause........} Nope, still nothing. {Longer pause.........} You're pulling my leg, right? >>
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sd
Joe,
I thought about that. I actually sent dallas' first response:
<< <i>Dear Sir,
Since I am not a full-time sports card dealer, it is sometimes difficult for me to get to a Post Office during the week. This week was one of those times, and I can only hope that you understand. I charge $3.50 shipping and handling for the majority of my auctions; this amount covers not only the cost of the postage, but also the cost of the packing materials, the fees to set up the auction, and other incidental costs associated with packaging the lots for shipment and getting them shipped. Obviously, auctions for items that sell for only a dollar or two would not be worthwhile - I would actually lose money on many of them - if I did not build these costs into the handling charge.
Thank you for your questions, and I hope you are pleased with the card.
-jordan
>>
I have not heard back nor do I think I will.
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