Looking for an attribute, and and other info on this coin (380 kB of images)

DominusDeus

Just got this, and I'd like any/all info on it, if you gentlemen (and a few ladies, I assume) could provide it.

Thanks!

GDJMSP

Fairly certain it's Spanish in origin - appears to be dated 1499. Unfortunately I don't have the books that go back that far for Spain. If you tell us something more about it it will help. What is the size of this coin ?

DominusDeus

It was listed as being a "double stuiver", so Dutch I figure, and it's ever so slightly larger than a Susan B. Anthony dollar in diameter.

GDJMSP

Well that makes some sense as Spain pretty much ruled the Netherlands at the time - which explains the Spanish coat of arms. Also the Phs in the legend is a give away for Spain. Unfortunately my books for the Netherlands only go back to 1506 and the reign of Charles V. This coin would have been struck under Isabella & Ferdinand. So maybe it is a double stuvier from the Netherlands. I cannot say for sure one way or the other.

DominusDeus

"Unfortunately my books for the Netherlands only go back to 1506"

So close, yet, so far...

Even if I don't know too much about it, I'm glad I got it. It's a nice kick-start for the "century" set I want to start (one coin, dated, from each century as far back as I can go). 1499 is a pretty darn good start. I'll probably start looking for decent stuivers (just to keep it with one series) dated in the mid 1500's and one in the mid 1600's. Quite sure I can get them for a whole lot cheaper than this 1499 bad boy.

If I could get something dated 13xx in Roman Numerals, that would be quite interesting, as well. I know there are 1200's dated coins with RN's, too. They'll probably be out of my spending range, though. This double stuiver is the most expensive coin I've ever bought. (and it's a darkside!) *runs away*

1jester

There certainly aren't too many coins dated 14--, and I don't know of any dated 13--. I've only heard of one coin dated in the 1200s, a 1234 coin from Denmark, I believe.

Good luck!

DominusDeus

Yes, I've seen pictures of the 1234 roman numeral dated coin. Haven't seen any 1300's ones though.

No one else has any info on this coin?

spoon

It's a 2 stuiver (dubbele stuiver) from the time of Philip the Handsome (Filips de Schone), aka Philip I of Spain. I can't say for sure where in the lowlands this is from, since I've seen attributions of Brabant, Flanders, Holland, etc, and I can't tell the difference (plus I don't have any books for this!). But I'd bet on the Belgian side.

Complete legends would be...
Obverse (shield side): +PHS+DEI+GRA+ARCID+AVS+DVX+BG+CO+HOL
Reverse (cross side): OMNIS+SPIRITVS+LAVDET+DNM+ANNO+1499

A few links for reference:
Jean Elsen & ses Fils (one of the most prominent auction houses in Belgium)
A dutch collector's database (scroll down)
Rondomons (a good dutch dealer I've dealt with)

DominusDeus

Awesome...

Wonder if there are any translations for the stuff written on the coin.

GDJMSP

I'm sure glad you found it spoon - I was havin a tough time

ColinCMR

I love the awkward stature of the numeral 4, in 1499. Is it common for olde 1400s coins to have funny 4s like that? Definitely a neat old piece!

GDJMSP

Those do, yes. It's the result of trying to fit everything. And you have to realize, each letter and number was punched into the die 1 at time. So they often ran out of room and tilted things to make them fit. Sometimes they even just left them out.