I'm starting to get a little ticked

xbaggypants

Sorry for my rant, but a couple of weeks ago I bought these 5 lots:



50 1960s TOPPS Football Cards NM
50 1960s TOPPS Football Cards NM
50 1960s TOPPS Football Cards NM
50 1960s TOPPS Football Cards NM
50 1960s TOPPS Football Cards NM

today I get the cards.... well some of the cards, of the total 250 I won I recieved 137 of them. The cards in the title and description are listed in NM, about half of the 137 are NM (60 are doubles), the rest are junk with creases etc. To top it all off most of the cards that are pictured weren't included in the 137 I got. In some of the pictures there are 1968 topps FB, which were the cards I really wanted, you would think there would be a couple included.... WRONG. Not one of the cards was a 68.

Has anyone delt with this seller before? I have sent an email to the seller stating the exact same things I have written here. What would you do in my case??

I guess what I really want to say is that I'm sick of sellers misleading buyers by posting pictures of stuff that YOU WON'T GET and sending junk instead.

ANYONE WITH ME??

Thanks for Listening!!

Ryan

NickM

They guarantee full satisfaction. I think it's time to demand a refund.
And those pictures are not stated to be an example, but as some of the cards you will receive.

I've never dealt with Vicki, and after your experience, that won't change.

Nick

baseballpa21

I hope she at least did combine shipping.. Never dealt with either. So many now think a small crease won't hurt a card. I'd ask for my money back.

lostdart58

It stinks.......get full refund....................and then STILL leave negative feedback, with full explanation why you are leaving negative feedback

You only got 137 out of 250 cards???

julen23

rock bottom seller.

seller may of thought they were NM..... or not

Julen

TMc

Let's tar and feather the b#tch.

dgbaseball

I certainly understand the frustration and annoyance with irresponsible and dishonest sellers (I've complained a few time myself on these boards). But this is not a malicious or misleading seller, so nope, not really with you on this one. In fact, I think many of you on these boards make far too big a deal out of far too many small things like this. I agree, it's fun to complain about things on ebay, and certainly fun to read, but I think there's a not-so-fine line between amusing/informative/interesting ebay complaints and, quite frankly, whining nitpicking like this that does nothing more than encourage responses like "get a refund and leave negative feedback" or similar.

Admittedly, they/he/she is a large operation, and that's no excuse for making mistakes, and certainly if you didn't get all the cards you won, you should let them know, and if they don't make it right, you should leave a negative. I fully agree there. But I think that's it.

As far as the condition goes, you won very vaguely described auctions, without specific cards listed, without any real scans, from an ebay seller who is not a card dealer, and who did, by the way, advertise the cards as "all Excellent near mint of better". What could you really expect (again, aside from actually getting everything you won)? If you, as an experienced card collector with an eye for quality, merit half the cards as truly NM, then I think you should be happy.

I think you got what was advertised (save the missing cards, which certainly should be resolved) and assuming that's resolved, I see nothing wrong and no reason to complain.

Sometimes we buyers need a reminder... It is not the responsibility of every seller to provide the perfectly described and scanned sports card auction. A lot of sellers just don't know how, don't know what to mention or scan, and don't know how to accurately grade cards. We all willingly take chances buying from those sellers.

VintageJeff

<< <i>I certainly understand the frustration and annoyance with irresponsible and dishonest sellers (I've complained a few time myself on these boards). But this is not a malicious or misleading seller, so nope, not really with you on this one. In fact, I think many of you on these boards make far too big a deal out of far too many small things like this. I agree, it's fun to complain about things on ebay, and certainly fun to read, but I think there's a not-so-fine line between amusing/informative/interesting ebay complaints and, quite frankly, whining nitpicking like this that does nothing more than encourage responses like "get a refund and leave negative feedback" or similar.

Admittedly, they/he/she is a large operation, and that's no excuse for making mistakes, and certainly if you didn't get all the cards you won, you should let them know, and if they don't make it right, you should leave a negative. I fully agree there. But I think that's it.

As far as the condition goes, you won very vaguely described auctions, without specific cards listed, without any real scans, from an ebay seller who is not a card dealer, and who did, by the way, advertise the cards as "all Excellent near mint of better". What could you really expect (again, aside from actually getting everything you won)? If you, as an experienced card collector with an eye for quality, merit half the cards as truly NM, then I think you should be happy.

I think you got what was advertised (save the missing cards, which certainly should be resolved) and assuming that's resolved, I see nothing wrong and no reason to complain.

Sometimes we buyers need a reminder... It is not the responsibility of every seller to provide the perfectly described and scanned sports card auction. A lot of sellers just don't know how, don't know what to mention or scan, and don't know how to accurately grade cards. We all willingly take chances buying from those sellers. >>



HUH? You really need to evaluate your opinion of right and wrong! He got about half the cards he ordered and he said alot of the cards were creased. Last time I checked even "all Excellent near mint of better" cards didn't have creases! A creased card would be VG/EX at best.

dgbaseball

Yes, as I said, not getting all the cards is a problem that should be resolved.

All I'm trying to say is card grading is obviously subjective, and to expect a massive ebay non-card dealer to accurately describe and grade a lot of 50 vintage cards is just expecting too much. And that's not a problem, and does not justify the responses people are posting. They were described as best the seller could, and we realistically can't ask for anything more. And that's where the potential buyer has a responsibility to asses whether it's worth risking the seller doesn't really know what EX Near Mint means, based on what we can learn about the sellers qualifications to grade cards. We take the chance, sometime we win, sometimes we lose. That's what happens buying site-unseen.

Given the bare description and photos, to demand 100% complete accuracy (to the standards of someone who understands card conditions) is unfair to this seller.

So to re-evaluate my opinion of right and wrong, as you can see I am clearly right and you are clearly wrong. LOL...

Stingray

Why didn't the seller at least state that some cards have creases on them? It sounds to me as though the seller was trying to imply that the cards were in better shape than they actually were. If a seller was to use the description "cards in excellent condition" how does one interpret that? If you can not the cards with a good scan, excellent can be all over the scale.

Stingray

VintageJeff

<< <i>Yes, as I said, not getting all the cards is a problem that should be resolved.

All I'm trying to say is card grading is obviously subjective, and to expect a massive ebay non-card dealer to accurately describe and grade a lot of 50 vintage cards is just expecting too much. And that's not a problem, and does not justify the responses people are posting. They were described as best the seller could, and we realistically can't ask for anything more. And that's where the potential buyer has a responsibility to asses whether it's worth risking the seller doesn't really know what EX Near Mint means, based on what we can learn about the sellers qualifications to grade cards. We take the chance, sometime we win, sometimes we lose. That's what happens buying site-unseen.

Given the bare description and photos, to demand 100% complete accuracy (to the standards of someone who understands card conditions) is unfair to this seller.

So to re-evaluate my opinion of right and wrong, as you can see I am clearly right and you are clearly wrong. LOL... >>



Again you need to go back and look at your "right and wrongs" I am clearly right To plead ignorance is to be ignorant. The seller obviously hand picked the best cards for the photo so they clearly knew there were lesser quality cards in the lot why didn't they mention it? I sure as hell don't see any creased cards in the picture and the seller told any bidders to look at the pics implying that it was representative of the cards in the lot. This was not Aunt Bea selling cards it was someone who deliberately left the worst conditioned cards out of the photos and only sent half the cards. So the only clear conclusion is that this seller is a bad one.

Stone193

<< <i>50 1960s TOPPS Football Cards Nm >>





<< <i>all Excellent near mint of better. >>


The 'lead' title/description - NM and the 'text' description Exmt or better. Very interesting. When you see that kind of wording, IMO, the hype is on and can only go one way from there.

Misleading read, missing cards - dealer not buyer is at fault - return cards - if you get a full refund without any problems - then the dealer has fulfilled their end of the bargain and doesn't deserve a negative for what they can say was a "mistake" IMO.

Perhaps a FB mentioning ones disappointment with the sale? But, if the person is a jerk - be ready for the customary "retalliation."

mike

jad22

Clearly one poster on this board believes that some ebay sellers are mentally handicapped and are unable to ascertain if cards are creased. I was unaware of the problems that ebay sellers have, unable to grade cards, give a fair and accurate description of a lot, scan them properly. Is there somewhere I can make a donation to the troubled ebay seller industry.

dgbaseball

Yes, certainly a bad seller... of vintage cards. That much is clear from the listing and seller history alone, and the buyer is taking a deliberate and obvious risk buying vintage cards from an obviously bad seller of vintage cards. It may not be Aunt Bea, but it's certainly isn't a top notch card dealer like DSL or DGBASEBALL9 :-) So there ought to be a little bit of leeway somwhere in the middle for non-dealers who sell cards. I think someone who does that much volume on ebay isn't trying to rip anyone off or mislead. I think it's a stretch to assume he/she/they was intentionally misrepresented or scanned the auction. Rather, I just think they're lazy about posting thousands of very different auctions, and (rightfully) don't expect an uproar or negative feedback from a small lot of vintage cards that sell for less than 20 cents/card.

VintageJeff

<< <i>Yes, certainly a bad seller... of vintage cards. That much is clear from the listing and seller history alone, and the buyer is taking a deliberate and obvious risk buying vintage cards from an obviously bad seller of vintage cards. It may not be Aunt Bea, but it's certainly isn't a top notch card dealer like DSL or DGBASEBALL9 :-) So there ought to be a little bit of leeway somwhere in the middle for non-dealers who sell cards. I think someone who does that much volume on ebay isn't trying to rip anyone off or mislead. I think it's a stretch to assume he/she/they was intentionally misrepresented or scanned the auction. Rather, I just think they're lazy about posting thousands of very different auctions, and (rightfully) don't expect an uproar or negative feedback from a small lot of vintage cards that sell for less than 20 cents/card. >>



Are they also too lazy to count? Leeway? You can't be serious! So should we give leeway to the next fake Mantle that shows up from high feedback sellers? Cause I see that alot. There is no room for leeway here. If you cannot at the very least describe what your auctioning accurately or scan or take a photo representative of what you are selling then you should not be listing it on ebay period.

dgbaseball

So now this seller, a top power seller on ebay has been deemed:

misleading
worthy of being tarred and feathered
a b$tch
ignorant
a bad seller
(possibly) a jerk
mentally handicapped


So, how did this all get started? Something about some of you guys making too big a deal out of little things??...

I will bow out now. Ryan, in my opinion, make sure you get the rest of the cards, leave positive or neutral feedback to the effect of "nice cards, not all ex/nm as advertised though" and move on and forget about negatives and refunds....

Stingray

I would not take everything that is said here literally. We can be a little sarcastic.

Stingray

baseballfanatic

There are thousands of these "lot" auctions on Ebay. If anyone thinks they are going to pay 7.00 for 50 NM vintage cards (worthy of a PSA7 or better, right?), and thinks they are going to actually get NM cards, well, thats why they went for 7 bucks. Everyone wants to hold the 3 million people listing on Ebay to PSA standards on grading, when most of the auctions are just schemes to get rid of a lot of their excess commons. Is it right? No. But thats what we were given common sense for, to weed out the BS out of every auction listed. Even Mastros "puffs" up a lot of stuff people have bought off of Ebay for 150.00 and turns it into 1000.00+ lots because it came from Mastros. If the lot was actually 50 PSA 7 or better (raw) cards for 7.00 everything is ok though. No one gets something for nothing, especially in this day and age...........

NickM

Everyone expects some seller puffing, and if creases are light, I can even see a seller calling the card EX. Now, if there are many cards that fall below a PSA 4 (and it's not for centering), we have a problem to some degree.

There is no excuse for getting 137 rather than 250, and for not getting many of the cards pictured.

Nick

kingraider75

Even if the seller made a mistake, it's still a mistake, a seller should take responsibility for his actions. It probably would have been better to have emailed the seller and asked what year cards and #'s were in the auctions. Problem is that a lot of the 1960's cards don't really have the year on them anywhere. So he probably didn't know what he had or how to list them correctly. As for getting 54% of the cards you paid for, well that's just wrong. I would say demand a refund via paypal( if you paid that way). If he didn't put delivery confirmation on it, it's as good as free, morally wrong, but still free.

baseballfanatic

I agree with the amount of cards. How do you sell 5 lots of 50 cards each and than only send 127, which is less than 3 lots. My problem is just with everyone saying "I want NM cards" that were advertised and they only get ex and want a full refund. The lots were only 7 bucks so lets use some common sense. Heck, even Mr. Mints Mint blazers would only amount to an 8 at best on PSA's grading scale which is why he was so against slabbing cards.......

bowdowntome

Power sellers are not ebay GODS!

In my time on ebay I've come to realize that "Power Sellers" become "Power Sellers" by generally being lazy with descriptions, scans, etc..... It's quantity over quality thing. I'm always suspicious of "Power" sellers. In fact I've seen many "Power" sellers kicked off of ebay for outright fraudulant activity.

In this case I don't think I'd use the word fraudulant however, but definitely lazy.

137 out of 250 cards? Inexcuzable
Picturing cards that are NOT in the actual lot? Lazy and inexcuzable

The one thing that is true though, is that grading is subjective. One persons MINT is another persons VG. Knowing that, and most people should, it's also inexcuzable to NOT at least describe any noticable damages or flaws. When I sell ANYTHING on ebay, I always go to great lengths to do this, knowing that by saying something is in MINT condition won't mena the same thing to everybody.

It's especially important to describe items condition because scans do not always show everything, especially if the scanner has a propensity to use the "brighten" function on their graphics prgram.

I'd take the seller up on their "satisfaction guaranteed" offer, send the stuff back, get my money back, and probably leave neutral feedback at worst. I wouldn't go negative unless they start giving you a hassle about returning them. But there is NO WAY they deserve a positive, no matter how sorry they are for their "mistake".

Buccaneer

When I got back into the hobby in 2003, I spent 2 months buying crap just like this (large vintage lots sold as Ex-NM that were really G-Ex). It's a lesson all should learn sometime.

Stone193

<< <i>But this is not a malicious or misleading seller, so nope, not really with you on this one >>


dgbaseball
Before you run off - I agree that sometimes the "rope" comes out kinda fast here before the trial is over.
But you made this comment - not..."misleading."

Well, with all due respect, the seller has mislead the buyer - maybe not intentionally but definitely post facto - you can't put in the lead description NM and then in the main body of the description drop it to
exmt and then send an inordinate amount of Vg cards out.

The rest I can't argue, may be a bit of hyperbole.

mike

JoeBanzai

I just got through reading this thread and I am amazed at the excuses people come up with.

ASSUMING the seller can count, they lying about the quantity of cards in the listing, also ASSUMING the seller can see, they are lying about the quality of cards in the listing.

I also read someone's comment that grading is subjective, and one persons MINT was anothers VG. That was a joke......right? Eye appeal is subjective, one person might like an "8" that is perfectly centered better that a "9" that is slightly off-center. Grades are "earned" by a card displaying stated values, PSA lists their grading standards, and while I have seen many examples on the boards of cards with grades I might slightly disagree with, I have yet to see a card with a crease ever make a "7" or above.

Sellers that mislead or lie about their items should not be allowed to list on eBay, buyers who don't honor their bids should also be banned.

I enjoy buying and selling on eBay and have met many great people. PSA is also a favorite of mine. Both are imperfect, as are we all.

JoeBanzai

mtcards

<< <i>So now this seller, a top power seller on ebay has been deemed:

misleading
worthy of being tarred and feathered
a b$tch
ignorant
a bad seller
(possibly) a jerk
mentally handicapped >>



I think both sides make legitimate points, BUT the only thing I find totally unreasonable is the above statement. A top powerseller on ebay means absolutely NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH!!!!!! Some of your biggest powersellers on ebay are powerSCAMMERS. To give someone any leeway or a free pass altogether because they are a powerseller...sorry, but that dog don't hunt

williplett

You got screwed, call her out on the guarantee. I get a kick out of people that don't think getting half of what you paid for is getting the shaft. I won't call her a Bizzatch, but I will call her a liar.

WinPitcher

she quite possibly made a mistake (in sending half the cards)

as for the grading, that seems typical.


SD

dgbaseball

A top powerseller on ebay means absolutely NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH

Couldn't disagree more.

Some of your biggest powersellers on ebay are powerSCAMMERS

Couldn't agree more, if you replaced "some" with "very few".

It can be both. Being a powerseller means you do a hell of a lot of successful, honest business with many happy customers. Which I admit doesn't necessarily mean the powerseller is definitely not a jerk or scammer. But given that it does require a high, continual level of successful sales to reach and maintain powerseller status, it shouldn't be completely dismissed as meaningless in a discussion like this, where seller motives and honestly are in question. Not a free pass, of course, but not insignificant.

What's really funny though is this issue has already probably long been resolved, while we continue to toss around opinions and analyze it to death. Ah, wasting time is fun.

mtcards

I agree that the term powerseller may instill confidence in buyers, but realistically it still means nothing. A powerseller that has a 10,000 positive FB but a 98.5% rate is a better businessman than say a person with a 593 FB rating with ZERO negs? I would disagree.

A powerseller means just that, a POWER-SELLER. It means they sell a lot, nothing else. I believe there is some ebay guideline that states they have to have a certain FB rating but, honestly, there hundreds of buyers on this board and I would tend to believe that very few of them have a rating under 99.9%, but not many are powersellers. Compare that to the "Dad had a giant hernia, must sell collection" auctions going on...most of them are powersellers, but are they really honest?

I guess Im in the mood to argue, but I dont believe powersellers are any more honest or deceptive than any other ebayer, they just sell more.

WinPitcher

It can be both. Being a powerseller means you do a hell of a lot of successful, honest business with many happy customers

not really, a powerseller can have as little as 200 feedback. what i think they do need is some sales in the 1000.00 range or somthing like that.

I have seen powersellers with low feedback yet have done some hi sales.

they also must keep a 99 percent feedback rating or somthing like that.

unless this has changed, my buddy the duke of mint is a power seller and he has under 500 feedbacks/transacions

plus they have a few degrees of powersellers, silver, gold and platinum



with that said I agree that the term powerseller never made me feel any more secure in a transaction. teddysballgame is a powerseller for godsakes.

SD

dgbaseball

Hey, even dgbaseball9 (and as a side story, we started the company as DGBaseball, only to find the ebay id was taken by some schmo who bought one thing on ebay over a year ago, hence our 9, in honor of the greatest hitter who ever lived) is a powerseller with a mere 249 feedbacks! I demand utmost respect and maintain the right to recklessly list auctions with inaccurate and misleading information.

kingraider75

well there are plenty of people who cant' read descriptions who will buy from you. Try to send more than 75% of the cards though.

dgbaseball

One of our recent auctions 1954 Topps

I bet the buyer's going to pissed when he really receives 22 VG 1974 commons.

I love this powerseller stuff!