Do People Really Pay Dealers these Prices?

IJustLoveCards

As I troll thru various websites looking to complete sets or look for individual cards I may need, I see prices that make me shake my head. I have seen examples of prices that make me doubletake.

Now don't get me wrong if they can get it more power to them, but I see prices that wouldnt even be half of their asking price if the card was on ebay, or even in an auction house. I keep seeing the same card in their inventory for over a year now.

Are they really in the business to make money? or is it... "I have these great nice looking cards and you can see them but they really aren't for sale". (based on the asking price)

In business a 50-60% margin is considered real good, I cant believe they paid over book by 75% and then added their 100% profit margin to reach the price I see.

I cant figure how they stay in business, I thought inventory turnover is a good thing, and if I can flip inventory 1 or 2 times a year with a 20% - 30% profit margin I would be happy..


Here are some examples : 1955 topps psa 8 clemente SMR 4500.00 asking 6750.00
1955 topps psa 8 Williams SMR 2750.00 asking 4250.00
1956 topps psa 7 mantle SMR 1150.00 asking 2100.00
1960 topps psa 7 mantle SMR 450.00 asking 800.00




Thank gosh for ebay!!!!! even with all of its problems it does make the market!!!!

lostdart58

With most of the dealers their prices are negotiable.....but with there starting prices, who wants to negotiate.!!!

iamthegreatcornholio

i don't like playing games, if i agree with the price, i buy, if not, i move on.

it all depends on the dealer, i have bought psa 8 '65s from several dealers for cheaper than the going ebay rate.

however, there are others that are out in left field... one in particular has several hundred commons all at a flat rate almost double smr - about 3-4x the going rate - i've never seen one sell...

ctsoxfan

One guess as to which dealer you are talking about (it's too easy!) -

I always wonder the same thing as I attend any fairly large show. There is always a dealer with cases and cases of slabs, most all of them priced well above SMR, and not much desire to actually sell any of them. I'm not suggesting giving anything away, but while SMR is merely a guide (and sometimes not current enough for real world price changes), I'm not paying anyone multiples of SMR value for any card.

wolfbear

Some collectors have more money than time.

So if they can establish a relationship with a dealer they trust
it doesn't matter to them if they end up paying more than you or me for their cards.

They're too busy getting even richer to have time to mess around searching eBay and such.

Carew29

I happen to know Maraya, she is a very nice lady to meet in person. But have you seen her prices?? Hello!!

Stone193

<< <i>They're too busy getting even richer to have time to mess around searching eBay and such. >>


Wolf
I dare to dream.

But on some of the purchases I have seen over the years, I wonder if these guys have more money than brains? There are a few dealers with outrageous "buy" prices.

calleocho

I think most of us would prefer to buy from a dealer versus ebay.

You get to build a relationship, you get your cards without hassle, etc.

But i have to agree some dealers prices are a little bit greedy.

its a very thin market, this is not retail where 100% markups are the norm...maybe a 15 -25% should be expected.

Im talking about online dealers, brick and mortar dealers might have to figure out something else.

The sad thing is that they might have a card that it books for 250 bucks listed on their website for 600, after a year collecting dust they sell it on the bay and it brings them 300 bucks after ebay/paypal fees they might get 275.

why just not list the card for $325 in the first place.

To be fair not all dealers are "museum" dealers, there a few whose prices are reasonable

Jay and a few other guys still price their cards at a competitive level and might give you a discount if you buy a decent amount of cards.

But the large dealers really dont seem to care about pricing, they might be very nice and have amazing selections, but money talks.

Its a sad thing to buy a card on a dealer's website and if you need to sell the card and you listed on ebay, to take a beating of 40% loss even after a couple of years.

In a niche market such as ours, there should be some kind of code where a dealer is expected to buy at 80%-90% of book and sell at 110%-120%

But hey if they can get away it...more power to them.

SDavid

It would be interesting to compare the profits of the larger dealers who buy graded and ungraded cards on the cheap and resell them on their sites versus the "grade and trade" dealers such as dsl, 4 sharp, and tuttle who, as far as I know, have sold most of their inventory through ebay or other online auction houses.

It's not too tough to guess which group has the quickest turnaround.

Stone193

<< <i>I think most of us would prefer to buy from a dealer versus ebay >>


Calle
I would too. Years ago, I used to do a lot of business with Steve Novella when he worked for Greg Manning and it was a pleasure.

They took stuff back - no questions - tho, these guys do tend to overgrade by approx. a half to 1 unit.

I will say, tho, if one is careful, there are great buys on ebay that a full time dealer with overhead, investment in inventory, etc. just can't compete with.

I also liked Rotman, David Festberg to name a few.

mike

mtcards

Owning a business myself, pricing those items that high means that you actually need less sales to make the same profit.

For example:

Business A sells 10 items at $10 each which they purchased at $5. Total profit is $50
Business B sells 5 items at $15 each which they also purchased at $5. Total profit is $50.

I realize that is a vague example and a lot of businesses that apply that theory either have no competition or will eventually be out of business, but sometimes the fish does bite the worm and I guess all they have to do is sell one item at the high prices to make it worth their while

calleocho

MTcards.

Lets say your examples A and B represent ebay and an average dealer.

Why can a dealer price their cards at $12.50 instead he would just need 7 sales to make 52.50 in profits and his mark up would be around 25% higher than ebay.

Im not against dealers making a profit but i really think they are being penny wise/ pound foolish.

The idea of getting "value" its shared by all collectors wether their budget is big or small.

Getting 10 cards on ebay instead of getting 5 cards from a dealer all for the same amount of money...anyone doing large sets simply can not ignore the savings.

But if a collector could get around 7 or 8 cards for the same money with really good service and from a trusted dealer, I really think They would go for it.

mtcards

I understand what you are saying and believe me, I fall into the category of the lower priced sellers. I have a competitor who falls into a higher priced seller. He needs less sales to make the same profit and trust me, service does not come into play in my line of business. I get more complaints from his ex customers, but they continue to go back because of political reasons, but pay about 50 % more for their items. From a business standpoint, he looks at it as if "Hey, they will let me gouge them, so I will do it" and maybe thats how some of the card dealers do it too

Jackailius

Thought I would chime in with a possible answer. These dealers may not actually be interested in selling these cards. My grandfather used to be a dealer. He had and still has many of his cards from when he was a kid. When he had his store he always was great on prices on newer product (1980-present) but the older the cards the less off "book" value he had them listed at. Many of his cards from 1970 and prior were priced at hi book. He wasn't really interested in selling them, unless he got enough for them. Perhaps it's the same situation with the dealers in question. It may take a real monetary incentive for them to actually sell the cards that have nostalgic value to them. Remember most dealers are also collectors but at the same time everything is for sale at the right price.

Just a possible explanation

oddball

for high end cards I use ebay, ebay is cheaper 99% of the time......unless they want to trade, I have gotten some high end cards from dealers through trades that were pretty even, although I know some dealers that will only trade 2 for 1 in their favor

as for low end cards, sometimes it's easier to just pay a little more and get it right away and knowing it's in good condition than to have to mess with ebay

maraya

HELLO!!!???
Dealers getting rich? Which ones, where, and how? Do you guys
realize that dealers most often pay way over book for really nice high end cards? I pay over book for really nicely centered high end PSA cards leaving a profit margin 10%???? Look on eBay for offerings of off center so-so graded 8's, if that's your gig, go for it.
But I'm pretty pickey when it comes to cards, and most of my customers realize that, too, including other dealers. There isn't much nice raw vintage coming over tables these days, and dealers have to compete with collectors for the same material. Perhaps some collectors wish there were no dealers to deal with, no shows, just eBay, and auctions, and maybe that's the wave of the future. With so many auctions these days collectors are paying WAY over book for nice choice material, PLUS the 15%-19% buyer's premium!! HELLO!!!

ctsoxfan

<< <i>Thought I would chime in with a possible answer. These dealers may not actually be interested in selling these cards. My grandfather used to be a dealer. He had and still has many of his cards from when he was a kid. When he had his store he always was great on prices on newer product (1980-present) but the older the cards the less off "book" value he had them listed at. Many of his cards from 1970 and prior were priced at hi book. He wasn't really interested in selling them, unless he got enough for them. Perhaps it's the same situation with the dealers in question. It may take a real monetary incentive for them to actually sell the cards that have nostalgic value to them. Remember most dealers are also collectors but at the same time everything is for sale at the right price.

Just a possible explanation >>




I think that is a great explanation, and makes perfect sense in your grandfather's case. But, the dealers being referred to here have way too many slabs in their online, or show setup museums, to think that sentimental attachment is a factor. It's more a case of - "If they want this xxxx card, they'll eventually have to come to me for it." But, with Ebay, everyone is a dealer, and no matter how "rare" something is, you tend to always find another one on Ebay if you wait long enough. And, the market will determine its true value at that point.

Stone193

<< <i>HELLO!!!???
Dealers getting rich? Which ones, where, and how? Do you guys
realize that dealers most often pay way over book for really nice high end cards? I pay over book for really nicely centered high end PSA cards leaving a profit margin 10%???? Look on eBay for offerings of off center so-so graded 8's, if that's your gig, go for it.
But I'm pretty pickey when it comes to cards, and most of my customers realize that, too, including other dealers. There isn't much nice raw vintage coming over tables these days, and dealers have to compete with collectors for the same material. Perhaps some collectors wish there were no dealers to deal with, no shows, just eBay, and auctions, and maybe that's the wave of the future. With so many auctions these days collectors are paying WAY over book for nice choice material, PLUS the 15%-19% buyer's premium!! HELLO!!! >>


Hi Maraya, Welcome!!!
What you are saying makes perfect sense. But, I'm a bit incredulous to how many dealers we're talking about? Unfortunately, over the last 15 yrs or so, they have gotten the reputation for buying LOW and selling HIGH. Some are out and out crooks who would "low ball" a collection of two little octogenarians who happened to present their collection to their table - and then make them feel like they were getting the "sell" of the century!

Also, dealers buy/convince people they have "6's" and sell them as "8's" - many overgrade their raw by as much a two grades!

Ebay and graded have leveled the playing field IMO.

Having said that, there are many, many dealers I have all the confidence in the world - just not sure how many are out there anymore?

But, again, welcome
mike

baseballfanatic

I've heard from all too many dealers "Everything I buy is VG Excellent, everything I sell is near mint". A lot of dealers used to actually take pride in telling you that they only paid 200.00 for the 1954 to 1959 sets you were looking through when you asked them if they had any older stuff. They would be quick to pull out a Beckett though if you asked them for the price of any cards in the set and not be afraid to tell you that it was 400.00!

calleocho

Welcome to the boards Maraya!

High-end cards do indeed deserve a premium and i am glad that you pay for it.

however...you are probably not the kind of dealer that post is aimed at.

We have all seen dealers using their ebay names for buying particular cards and then that same card gets listed on their website for 50%-100% more than what they bought it for.