Speaking of hall of fame careers........
WinPitcher
Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Jim Kaat: 25 seasons (1959-83), 13 with Twins...won 283 games (29th all-time), with three seasons over 20 wins...5th in AL MVP voting in 1966, winning 25 games...three-time All-Star (1962, 1966, 1975)...won 16 straight Gold Gloves (1962-77)...pitched in two World Series and two League Championship series...13th all-time with 625 games started and 24th all-time with 4,530 innings pitched...lifetime ERA 3.45, with 31 shutouts...Contemporary pitchers: Jim Bunning, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale, Rollie Fingers, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Jim Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Phil Niekro, Jim Palmer, Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Don Sutton, Hoyt Wilhelm.
YEARS W L PCT G GS CG SHO IP H SO BB ERA WHIP
1959-83 283 237 .544 898 625 180 31 4530.3 4620 2461 1083 3.45 1.26
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YEARS W L PCT G GS CG SHO IP H SO BB ERA WHIP
1959-83 283 237 .544 898 625 180 31 4530.3 4620 2461 1083 3.45 1.26
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Good for you.
0
Comments
To pitch that many seasons and STILL be about 20 wins short of 300 hurts him
How do you like Rusty Staub?? He is an interesting player. Boy, if he got to the chance to play in this era, 3,000 hits would be a piece of cake. People forget those guys, and that is ashame.
What about Morris? He was the winningest pitcher in the 80s, yet he's left out.
So when it's 'magical' round numbers like 3000 hits, no matter how long it takes, that's ok?
it took raffy palmiero 18 years to do. Just like all the others with 3k in hits
no one did it in 10 years Ax
some quotes from his PEERS
"Eddie and Raffy were similar in that they were very quiet and extremely productive," former Oriole Cal Ripken said. "They are two of the best hitters of all time, and I was honored to call them both teammates."
"When you look at his numbers, maybe they're not eye-popping like they were at one time," Yankees manager Joe Torre said. "But he's far from hanging on. He's got such a simple stroke; there's not a lot of moving parts."
"In terms of home runs and RBIs, he's done it more consistently than anybody else in baseball," Orioles outfielder B.J. Surhoff said. "I think the biggest thing that stands out to me is his durability and the number of games he's been able to play every single year. That really says a lot."
The 26 members of the 3,000-hit club with date of No. 3,000, age at time
of milestone, type of hit, at-bats and games needed and career hit total.
Player Date Age Hit At-Bat Game Career
Cap Anson Aug. 3, 1897 45 single N/A N/A 3,081
Honus Wagner July 9, 1914 40 double 8,801 2,332 3,430
Nap Lajoie Sept. 27, 1914 40 single 8,630 2,224 3,252
Ty Cobb Aug. 19, 1921 34 single 8,093 2,135 4,191
Tris Speaker May 17, 1925 37 single 8,625 2,341 3,515
Eddie Collins June 3, 1925 38 single N/A 2,505 3,314
Paul Waner June 19, 1942 39 single N/A 2,314 3,152
Stan Musial May 13, 1958 37 double 8,774 2,301 3,630
Hank Aaron May 17, 1970 36 single 9,566 2,460 3,771
Willie Mays July 18, 1970 39 single 9,802 2,639 3,283
Roberto Clemente Sept. 29, 1972 38 double 9,454 2,433 3,000
Al Kaline Sept. 24, 1974 39 double 10,096 2,825 3,007
Pete Rose May 5, 1978 37 single 9,690 2,370 4,256
Lou Brock Aug. 13, 1979 40 single 10,234 2,629 3,023
Carl Yastrzemski Sept. 12, 1979 40 single 10,418 2,629 3,419
Rod Carew Aug. 4, 1985 39 single 9,101 2,417 3,053
Robin Yount Sept. 9, 1992 36 single 10,473 2,708 3,142
George Brett Sept. 30, 1992 39 single 9,779 2,559 3,154
Dave Winfield Sept. 16, 1993 41 single 10,559 2,840 3,110
Eddie Murray June 30, 1995 39 single 10,392 2,764 3,255
Paul Molitor Sept. 16, 1996 40 triple 9,750 2,411 3,319
Tony Gwynn Aug. 6, 1999 39 single 8,874 2,284 3,141
Wade Boggs Aug. 7, 1999 41 homer 9,151 2,429 3,010
Cal Ripken Jr. April 15, 2000 39 single 10,803 2,800 3,184
Rickey Henderson Oct. 7, 2001 42 double 10,710 2,979 3,055
Rafael Palmeiro July 15, 2005 40 double 10,391 2,809 3,001
Only Ty Cobb at age 34 can be considered a youngster! most of rest were 37 plus when they did it.
SD
Look I don't care WP what you say...I don't care how many quotes you dig up that have players saying glowing things about Raffy.
I am content to KNOW he never was near the top of his profession (first baseman), never even sniffed an MVP indicating he was the best player in the league, and was a product of the offensive explosion (and surely steroid use).
I am content to know that Raffy will retire and NEVER be thought of as an all time great, hall of fame induction be damned.
I am content to know that Raffy will never be remembered as one of the all time great players of this era.
I am content to know that Raffy's viagra endorsement is what will be his most memorable legacy, not anything he ever did on the field.
It's painfully obvious you cannot look beyond the round numbers of 500/3000 and think OHMYGOD! What a great player! It's apparent you can't put those numbers into the context of the league averages and see he never truly stood out in any single year, let alone over a period of years.
3000 hits over 18 years is 167 hits a year. That's who we want in the hall? Well it's apparent YOU want him in the hall, and those who worship numbers without seeing the big picture of things will worship him in a similar way.
But how many people do you know of, that you talk baseball with, EVER bring up Raffy's name into a conversation? Talking the last 25 years, how long of a conversation would you have to get into before his name would finally get brought up?
He was uninspired, unexceptional, and never was a leading ball player, let alone leading first baseman.
Enjoy his hall induction...I am sure you'll be rooting loudest for it.
edited to add.... oh we see the big picture, now what about golf not being a sport?
<< <i>
Cap Anson Aug. 3, 1897 45 single N/A N/A 3,081
Honus Wagner July 9, 1914 40 double 8,801 2,332 3,430
Nap Lajoie Sept. 27, 1914 40 single 8,630 2,224 3,252
Ty Cobb Aug. 19, 1921 34 single 8,093 2,135 4,191
Tris Speaker May 17, 1925 37 single 8,625 2,341 3,515
Eddie Collins June 3, 1925 38 single N/A 2,505 3,314
Paul Waner June 19, 1942 39 single N/A 2,314 3,152
Stan Musial May 13, 1958 37 double 8,774 2,301 3,630
Hank Aaron May 17, 1970 36 single 9,566 2,460 3,771
Willie Mays July 18, 1970 39 single 9,802 2,639 3,283
Roberto Clemente Sept. 29, 1972 38 double 9,454 2,433 3,000
Al Kaline Sept. 24, 1974 39 double 10,096 2,825 3,007
Pete Rose May 5, 1978 37 single 9,690 2,370 4,256
Lou Brock Aug. 13, 1979 40 single 10,234 2,629 3,023
Carl Yastrzemski Sept. 12, 1979 40 single 10,418 2,629 3,419
Rod Carew Aug. 4, 1985 39 single 9,101 2,417 3,053
Robin Yount Sept. 9, 1992 36 single 10,473 2,708 3,142
George Brett Sept. 30, 1992 39 single 9,779 2,559 3,154
Dave Winfield Sept. 16, 1993 41 single 10,559 2,840 3,110
Eddie Murray June 30, 1995 39 single 10,392 2,764 3,255
Paul Molitor Sept. 16, 1996 40 triple 9,750 2,411 3,319
Tony Gwynn Aug. 6, 1999 39 single 8,874 2,284 3,141
Wade Boggs Aug. 7, 1999 41 homer 9,151 2,429 3,010
Cal Ripken Jr. April 15, 2000 39 single 10,803 2,800 3,184
Rickey Henderson Oct. 7, 2001 42 double 10,710 2,979 3,055
>>
Is there anyone on this list you'd leave off your team in favor of Raffy?
Is there anyone on this list who you feel Raffy was more valuable than?
I'll spell it out for you, since it's apparent now I need to go realllllllllll slow for you:
Assume you are a GM of a team that has one of those players on it. Now go down the list, and ask yourself if you'd pick Raffy to be on that team instead of the player on that list.
It'll become clear (I hope!) to you that Raffy is the most out-of-place on that list.
<< <i>ok and ill answer even slower for you..id want them ALL >>
Ok slowpoke...you can't have them all.
Let's pretend (you know that word...like pretending you know about sports?) that you have a team that has ONE of the players on that list.
Look at that player, and ask yourself 'would I take Raffy over this guy?' Now do the same for every player on that list...and tell me which you'd rather have than Raffy on your team. Why is this exercise so difficult for you to comprehend? Are you really that dense? Or are you just trying to be funny?
Either way its a sad, sad thing.
Funny Axtell I thought the same of you the first time you opened your mouth here.
only I was polite and didn't insult you.
everyone see's right through you pal.
when the going gets tuff you insult people.
btw why did you not reply to cubfan? regarding palmiero and 11 staright GREAT seasons he had.
slowpoke? ok buddy prove to everyone how much of an ... you really are.
sd
<< <i>
when the going gets tuff you insult people.
>>
then you post
prove to everyone how much of an ... you really are.
>>
Hypocrite, much?
And you think my saying 'I don't care what you say' is an insult? Wow you sure are a sensitive guy aren't you? And what about you 'being done' and posting any more replies? Or is that another in your long line of inconsistencies?
And that 11 year 'great' run that he supposedly had? Where did good ole Raffy finish in OPS those 'great' years?
1992 - 5
1993 - 6
1994 - 10
1995 - 8
1996 - out of top 10
1997 - out of top 10
1998 - out of top 10
1999 - 2
2000 - out of top 10
2001 - 10
2002 - 7
So in this supposedly 'great' run, he finished better than 5th just once, and was out of the top 10 over 1/3 of the time. How is this greatness? Because he had one great year (1999) that is supposed to carry it over the entire 11 year run?
And Jim Kaat for the hall? Someone who made the all star team twice in 25 years? .544 career winning percentage? Managed three top 10s in ERA (6, 6, and 9) in 25 years? Led the league in wins just once?
No wonder you like Raffy so much. Compared to Kaat, Raffy was incredible!
Axtell you need to read what you post, calling me a slopoke etc is insulting. and yes I then became a hypocrit and insulted you back disagreeing with one another is not insulting it is the things you have said to not only me but a few others as well. and if i recall someone else did in fact call you out on it.
yeah im inconsistent, i enjoy playing with little minds. when i tire ill move on.
insult? u betcha
<< <i>nah im inconsistent, i enjoy playing with little minds. when i tire ill move on.
insult? u betcha >>
First you say you're done with responding to me, then it's when you tire you'll move on?
Which one is it?
If what I've said insults you, well, I don't know what to tell you. I guess you're not used to people rebutting your (weak) arguments with factual evidence. I guess if someone calling you out on your opinions insults you, I suggest growing a thicker skin, as it must be miserable if what someone on a message board insults you.
this one im not ready to move on yet. im still toying with you. get your facts and threads straight.
ill link you over to the one I said it if you need help.
sd here is the link to the thread i said i was done with, notice i have not replied since?
isnt it time for you to go to bed yet?
Sd
<< <i>actually it was your weak evidence axy
isnt it time for you to go to bed yet?
Sd >>
Oh in *that* thread you said you were done, so that makes it ok to keep posting replies, and not be hypocritical. As the church lady would say, 'how conveeeeeeenient'.
What weak evidence? I posted solid, undeniable numbers straight from baseball-reference.com that proves he was never the most valuable player in the game, and the best he did other that one second place finish was 5th.
I've posted that he's never lead the league in BA, HR, or RBI. Yet you continue to say what a great player he is, and all you can say is '500/3000!!!1!1 ohmigod he roxor!'
And yes i said I was done on a thread and have not posted since. You can twist it all you want.
Your so called evidence is weak. vet weak as a matter of fact,
you keep going on and on how Palmieron didnt do this or that. ill tell you another thing he never did and that was grandstand at the plate after a homer. You know he has almost 560+ of them? maybe if he was more of an in your face player you would understand his career better. <burp>
bla bla bla yes I have heard you 1000 times mention that
harold baines yes?
craig biggio yes?
what are you on?
sd
And now you're saying he's worthy because he's never stood at home and admired a home run. How could you POSSIBLY know that? Have you seen every single one of his home runs? You have seen every one of his 560+ home runs? Come on, you are really, really stretching for it now aren't you.
No, I don't like show off players...but when a player like Junior hits a monster shot and takes a few slow steps out of the box admiring it, there's nothing wrong with that. How is that any different than a football player celebrating a touchdown with a spike, or a jam over the goalpost?
It's also become apparent all you can do is blindly follow numbers. How can you not see Biggio as a sure fire hall of famer. Arguably one of the greatest second basemen of this generation, also a great catcher, yet all you can see is 'he didn't hit enough home runs!'
Your willingness to be led by the nose by raw numbers is funny.
edit: what, you're burping in my face now, or has your mommy given your nightly bottle and burped you?
I make no bones about it.
actually axtell im tired now of you. Ill move on.
watch you make an ass of yourself from the sidelines from this point on in all threads
<burp>
<< <i>it was in your face........
I make no bones about it.
actually axtell im tired now of you. Ill move on.
watch you make an ass of yourself from the sidelines from this point on in all threads
<burp> >>
Ooh you're so tough, you burped at me on a messageboard! Wow you really are a real tough guy.
Now you're tired of me? Good. Go away...I am sure your mom wonders what you're still doing up this late!
You mean to tell me I have been debating with some punk teenager all this time... good god!
yeah Ill "go away"
your posts are silly dribble anyway.
buh bye AH