Counterfeit Pillar Dollars

stev32k

I'm looking to buy a Pillar Dollar - a real one - not counterfeit. It was one of the first coins I ever purchased as a kid and it turned out to be counterfeit. This time I'd like the real thing. Are there any markers I can look for to tell the difference? Any suggestions, comments, or advice would be appreciated.

lordmarcovan

Most counterfeits have that "cast" look to them.

farthing

I would also avoid sea salvaged examples

A Pillar Dollar is on my list of coins to get "someday". It would either have to be slabbed or raw from a well respected dealer who specializes in Darkside material.

stev32k

I'm a complete novice in this area of coin collecting, but I really like the lore of the Pillar dollar. Here is a whole ebay page of them for sale, but how do I know if any are counterfeit? link

Aethelred

I would love to get ahold of a counterfeit Pillar Dollar for a website I am working on.

farthing

Another thing to look out for, ex-jewelry.

At least this seller gives you a nice clear picture of the damage.

GDJMSP

<< <i>I'm looking to buy a Pillar Dollar - a real one - not counterfeit. It was one of the first coins I ever purchased as a kid and it turned out to be counterfeit. This time I'd like the real thing. Are there any markers I can look for to tell the difference? Any suggestions, comments, or advice would be appreciated. >>




Yeah - probably more than can be explained here. But rather quickly - the legends can be a give away. But then you have to know what the legends are supposed to be for the given year, mint and denomination. I have even them put the wrong king's name on a coin. The assayer's initials - same as the legends. The design elements, they are as numerous as the coins themselves and again can vary from year to year, mint to mint etc. Then of course we have the normal things like weight, which did vary at times, diameter, edge design which again varies - the list goes on considerably.

You want a genuine coin - buy one from a trusted source. This particular gentleman, LINK , is likely the single most trusted source there is for these coins. He is a second generation expert and recognized as such world wide. So was his father before him. They literally wrote the books.

But if you run across one you like elsewhere - post some pics or a link. I'll help you as much as I can

farthing

It can be really hard to determine if a coin is counterfeit from the pictures you normally find on eBay. Having just bought 5 counterfeit British crowns on eBay (having missed that Queen Victoria was smoking a stoogie in the small pics provided by the seller) I know this all too well.

You begin by looking for things that just don't "look right". Perhaps the lettering is a bit thin, or the denticles are weakly defined for a coin that looks well struck. Or the surfaces look too rough for the coin. At best all you can do is avoid the bad counterfeits without being able to examine the coin "in hand". I would also stay away from coins being offered by sellers in certain Asian countries.

The coin from staplescoin looks nice, they are one of the dealers on eBay I would trust. Two of the coins ernie has listed also look nice, but I won't pay what he's asking for them.

stev32k

Here's one that looks good to me. What do you guys think?

Interesting to note that I had six of these on my ebay watch list yesterday. Today two of them are invalid items. Hmmm.

stev32k

I'm seeing quite a big difference in the rims of various pillar dollars. The one in the picture above has fairly smooth rims. Others I've looked at have rims that look like they have been evenly cut all the way around. Is one or the other of these a fake?

danglen

<< <i> You want a genuine coin - buy one from a trusted source. This particular gentleman, LINK , is likely the single most trusted source there is for these coins. He is a second generation expert and recognized as such world wide. So was his father before him. They literally wrote the books. >>



I second the motion. Daniel Sedwick is a class act. You can't go wrong buying coins from him.

GDJMSP

<< <i>Here's one that looks good to me. What do you guys think? >>




Looks like the real deal to me.

GDJMSP

<< <i>I'm seeing quite a big difference in the rims of various pillar dollars. The one in the picture above has fairly smooth rims. Others I've looked at have rims that look like they have been evenly cut all the way around. Is one or the other of these a fake? >>




It depends on the mint and year. There were several differences as well as changes in the edge design. But find a coin of a given date & mint with the wrong design - it's likely a fake.

coinnerd

<< I'm seeing quite a big difference in the rims of various pillar dollars. The one in the picture above has fairly smooth rims. Others I've looked at have rims that look like they have been evenly cut all the way around. Is one or the other of these a fake? >>

The rims vary and cannot be used to tell a genuine coin. The photo of the one you pictured looks good but you need to see it in hand. The edge design should be fluer d'lis all around no other edge was produced on pillars and it is hard (not impossible) to counterfeit. Weight should be taken into account, the Spanish were very picky about their coinage being full weight. They should never weigh more than 27g, and less depending on wear. A new looking coin that is .3g light is a pass. Also watch for over grading. The one you have pictured is a good VF not an AU as it is listed. Compare it to my icon coin.
Dave

stev32k

Thanks for all the responses.

JZrarities

I bought a nice 1739 High Grade with Nice Color and a great strike at Long Beach. The brown highlights are Toning (not wear) - a toothpick of Jewel Luster verified it was just toning.

I sent it to be slabbed - IT WAS COUNTERFEIT.

Telltale Sign (that I didn't check) THE WEIGHT. (it was light)



Oh,,, I LOVED the Color of that coin. Even if it was fake. Couldn't keep it.

JZrarities

1739 seems to be a common Faked Date.

stev32k

I think I'll hold off buying for awhile and study up on these. There seems to be a very wide price range and that makes me nervous. I've been watching this guy's auction, but he is in Germany and only has a 97% feedback so don't think I'll bid. The prices on others warrent more knowledge of the coins than I have now - so I think I'll save my money and do some reading.

farthing

Limited knowledge is why that coin is still on my "someday" list.

JZ, sorry to hear about your coin

stev32k

<<I bought a nice 1739 High Grade with Nice Color and a great strike at Long Beach. The brown highlights are Toning (not wear) - a toothpick of Jewel Luster verified it was just toning.

I sent it to be slabbed - IT WAS COUNTERFEIT.

Telltale Sign (that I didn't check) THE WEIGHT. (it was light)>>

I think I would like that one even if it was counterfeit. chances are I would never have sent it in for slabbing so would be happily thinking it was genuine.

JZrarities

I almost kept it it was THAT nice (and the pictures don't do the colors justice)

I knew the Dealer so I returned it...And haven't bought another until I learn some more.

GDJMSP

<< <i>The rims vary and cannot be used to tell a genuine coin. The photo of the one you pictured looks good but you need to see it in hand. The edge design should be fluer d'lis all around no other edge was produced on pillars and it is hard (not impossible) to counterfeit.
Dave >>



I will agree with this - but you can use them to tell a fake. I would call the design laurel leaves, but that doesn't really matter. There were changes with the design depending on the year and mint. They were all laurel leaves sure enough, but only Mexico City and Guatemala produced coins with the leaves pointing in different directions. So for example, say you find a Potosi or Lima coin with the leaves pointing in different directions - then it's a fake.

And up until 1762 with the coins of Mexico & Guatemala, when the leaves pointed in the same direction - you could plainly tell where they met. But in 1762 and on - they fixed this. With those coins the design is sized perfectly and you cannot tell where they met. So find a coin where you can - and it is not a certainty it is fake - but it is suspect and worthy of a closer look.

With the Lima mint all the leaves point in the same direction. But from 1752 on, the coins always had 2 clear joints. Prior to that this was not always the case. With the Potosi coins you can usually only find 1 joint.

skingspan

Here is a real one for reference, bought it on ebay a while back. A little beat up, but real. I think the seller was a board member.