LAURENS LINCOLNS and WILLIAM BICKELL are the same person

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · July 8, 2005 11:38PM

Laurens Lincolns which is listed in the set registry as a YN is the same collection as the Willliam Bickell
collection being sold by Heritage at the San Francisco ANA.

Do you think there is anything Deceitful about stating your a YN when the truth is the person putting together the collection
is an adult ?

Should we have sympathy for anyone purporting to be a YN ?

Stewart

Steve · July 9, 2005 12:41AM

Stewart,
I believe the INTENT of PCGS in having a young numismitist sub category within the registry is to recongnize true young coin collectors under the age of 18 who choose to add their collection to the registry.

As we all know, the registry has become a competition to see who has the highest graded coins. Naturally, the highest graded coins cost more and the young people generally cannot afford to buy the coins they or their parents perceive is necessary to put into the registry. And so we have Laurens Lincolns and probably others as well.

I don't have a good solution for this. I really think most registry participants don't really care one way or the other. I'm just happy I can participate in the registries with my Lincoln cent collection and also appreciate those, like you, who have the great sets. Steve

RegistryCoin · July 9, 2005 1:13AM

I would guess that this set was put together for a kid, rather than by a kid, which, as was mentioned, recognizing the cost of an average reg. set, is understandable. I trust that Laurens Lincolns will become Lauren's dollars without too harsh of a commission.

Keyrock · July 9, 2005 1:40AM

When I started to work on a State Quarter set with my kids, I thought about the YN desgnation and listing the set with their name. I ended up listing them under my name just for the fact I thought it was deceitful to the fellow collectors since I'm buying the coins. In the end, the designation doesn't mean much to me so I'm pretty neutral on Laurens Lincolns. Maybe in the set description/comments a little clarity should be provided. For a high end set that cost some serious coin, you know an adult has to be backing them......

Rich

dpoole · July 9, 2005 1:47AM

My recollection of this situation is that daddy bankrolls the purchases, but that Lauren is right there at the shows looking at and picking the coins with dad.

If I have my facts straight here, it seems to me that a "collaborative" YN effort is legit, and the only realistic possibility at the loftier levels of the Registry. If daddy were doing all the work in behalf of an infant or or some kid who had no interest/participation, then I'd consider the designation inappropriate.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · July 9, 2005 1:49AM

Am I suppose to feel sympathetic for a YN or someone pretending to be a YN ?

I have previously been screwed by someone pretending to be collecting for his children.He convinced me to sell
him great collector coins.He wound up selling many of the coins I sold him for a significant profit and didn't even pay me for the coins
I entrusted him.
I say screw the people pretending to win my sympathy by pretending to be YN's

Real YN's collect affordable coins !!!

stewart

cosmicdebris · July 9, 2005 2:19AM

<< Real YN's collect affordable coins !!!
>>

Yes affordable to them, if daddy is a millionare I am sure the YN can afford more expensive coins.

Barry · July 10, 2005 2:00AM

All serious Registry collectors are YNs. Only a little boy would take it so seriously

dpoole · July 10, 2005 2:12AM

<< <i>All serious Registry collectors are YNs. Only a little boy would take it so seriously >>

Sez you, Mr. Poopypants.

Barry · July 10, 2005 2:16AM

<< <i>Sez you, Mr. Poopypants.

>>

I'm telling on you!

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · July 10, 2005 3:04AM

We must all forgive Barry while he has his DIAPER changed....

oops.....he is actually toning his coins.....forgive me Barry

Stewart

oreville · July 10, 2005 12:00PM

I thought our hobby needed more YN's.

RegistryCoin · July 10, 2005 9:35PM

Ywhine vs. YN ?
"No-win"

oreville · July 12, 2005 2:51AM

<<<<

<< <i>Am I suppose to feel sympathetic for a YN or someone pretending to be a YN ?

I have previously been screwed by someone pretending to be collecting for his children.He convinced me to sell
him great collector coins.He wound up selling many of the coins I sold him for a significant profit and didn't even pay me for the coins
I entrusted him.
I say screw the people pretending to win my sympathy by pretending to be YN's

Real YN's collect affordable coins !!! >>

>>>

Giving this thread a little more thought I can now understand Stew's distress. I am not one to run to Stew's defense all that often as I am pretty much a free thinker but I can understand where Stew is coming from in this case. It is not the registry listing and nomenature of who the coins are owned by. That is not all that important. But read below.

Stew has never complained ever before about selling a coin to anyone else and watching the buyer do well on reselling the coin.
Stew does like to partially joke around and play the "Pittman" routine on Laura, et al about not ever losing a auction bid to her or anyone else. That is the "competitive" Stew. But that is very different from selling a coin to a "YN" and then seeing the coin being sold an extremely short time later. This is the first time Stew has really complained about making a sale to another party so any time a collector makes a first complaint it is not a "whining" to me. Everyone gets a first time to be taken seriously.

Here is my take on it. If I sold a coin to a very young "YN" my thinking is that hopefully the child's parents would try to hang onto the coin until the child nears College age (14 years old and older) so that the monies generated from the sale would go towards the child's College tuition.

If the parents sells the coin especially after given a very special deal just a couple of years later, it breaks that emotional trust that I thought I had with the child and their parents. This can and does hurt emotionally.

I suspect that Stew is "hurt" emotionally, not financially. That can be much more devastating than anything else.

If I am right on this one, lets cut Stew a break on this one. He is no "whiner" here.

jacktheknife · July 12, 2005 12:53PM

Oreville,

You may have hit the nail on the head. Stewart is very fair when selling any of his dupes or other coins. In fact, he tries to be so fair that sometimes he can't come up with a price on a coin ( right, Stewart

). I would believe that if he was selling to a "YN" that he would be generous with the price he accepted. Obviously, if the coin is flipped a few months later for a handsome profit, I wouldn't fault him for being a bit upset. From the post, I don't think Bickel (Lauren) did that. It sounds like he has been taken in the past under the guise of selling to a YN. So, if that's the case, I can see his point as well.

Jack

RegistryCoin · July 12, 2005 3:33PM

ok. I hope all is well.

Lauren and Mr. Bickell: Please excuse us. Good luck with your sale.

jacktheknife · July 13, 2005 12:06AM

Registrycoin,

Exactly. I hope the sale goes well. I think it was a strong move by Mr. Bickel to sell the coins at no reserve. Let the coins speak for themselves.

Jack

DMWJR · July 29, 2005 3:03PM

The coins have spoken. What did they say?

LincolnsRule · July 29, 2005 5:05PM

I thought the prices realized were quite low. $747 for a 64rd 24-s! Guess it was a rb (someone can make a lot of money by making pcgs buy it back). I'm not sure but I think the 67rd 15-p and 30-s etc sold for less than what Bickell paid for them. I do remember the 65rd 21-s, that went way down from $30K+ to $17K I think.

DMWJR · July 29, 2005 10:14PM

Several of the proof Lincolns went strong

1911 in 6red for $14,950
1914 in 6red for $5,175
1961 in 69DC for $3,450

and the 70DC's from the 1970s.

Looks like there is strong proof set builder coming up. I have a couple of guesses, but don't know for sure. I liked the 14, but not at that price.

lloydmincy · July 30, 2005 3:46AM

Some coins sold well though. But the big difference I noticed was the 1915-d 66's. Two went for less than $7500, and one didnt sell because reserve was TWICE that. 1909-s VDB 66's still strong, 1955 DD 65RD's are stronger, and key dates with high grade, very low pop like the 1910-s, selectively strong.

The "regular" dates with plently to choose from, like the 1916 67RD's and the 1915-d 66RD's dropping in price because of supply.

RegistryCoin · July 30, 2005 9:59PM

<< <i> I think it was a strong move by Mr. Bickel to sell the coins at no reserve. >>

A gutsy move, but looking back, this was probably ill-advised.

jacktheknife · July 31, 2005 9:47AM

I haven't had much time to look the sale over yet, but I kind of wish I wasn't out of the country this past week. Looks like I could have picked up a few bargains. If those 15-D's were nice 66RD's (and not one particular dog that's out there trying to pretend to be a 66), I'd buy them all day long at $7500.

As far as bad advice selling at no reserve, there's always another way to look at it. What if the market is on the way down (for Lincolns that is)? I'm sure Mr Bickel would be happen to have liquidated at this time rather than be stuck with a bunch of coins that didn't sell. It might be a long time before he can get his money back. Just another way to look at it.

Jack

p8nt · July 31, 2005 10:14AM

Stewart, there are true YN's out there in the registries. I am in 3rd all time finest (out of 6

) but I can say every single coin in my registry was chosen and submitted from mint sets that I bought sight unseen and spent hours going through. There are 3 coins that are cheap coins ($10 in the slab) that I just bought already slabbed. My parents support my coin collecting but dont help me at all.

joefro · August 9, 2005 3:04AM

Obviously there is nothing wrong with an adult buying their kid coins, even in their name. Stewart's point about making deals to "YNs" and then watching them take advantage of your kindness is valid. I also don't think that these pseudo-YNs should be given awards left and right like the Cameron Stanley collection where the child may not even care all that much about the coins. The bad thing about this is that as p8nt said, there ARE real YNs out there who try to do things on their own and it's a shame to see their hard work and effort go unrewarded because some kid with very rich parents gets all the awards, and they probably care less!

Bochiman · August 9, 2005 4:53AM

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with a lot of what you are saying (I grew up pretty dang poor and saw wealthier families and their kids in my schools getting nice clothes, etc).

However, let me ask something.....as a YN, are you collecting for yourself of for recognition in a registry? While the recognition would be nice, I want my son to collect for himself. Others can be screwed!

The weathy will always get more awards over the non-wealthy. The only way it will change is by skill and hardwork.
The wealthy kid will get into Harvard and Yale. But, the hardworking kid has a shot as well.
The wealthy kid with the well-connected family will get into West Point because "daddy" knows congressmen and people for appointments. Yet, I was accepted to West Point (again...I wasn't wealthy...nor even comfortably well off....we didn't have more than a couple hundred in our savings/checking accounts after bills were paid).

So, for coins, the wealthy will win....most of the time. The way to buck this trend is to make your own high end coins. Not buy them already slabbed. So, go out, meet people, get a good eye, and get them slabbed. Look at Russ. Certainly not a kid (though he may be in his 3rd or 4th childhood

), but he certainly has learned his series and I don't think he has bought many/any of his registry set. He may not be #1, but he is respected for what he has and his set.
He had heartache and fun along the way, and has made profit in doing it as well.

So, don't whine because you don't have the money to buy your way into #1 (enough people do that...which is why common looking coins with a high slab grade go for stupid prices). Fight hard or accept what you have. If you don't like it, COLLECT FOR YOURSELF and not for the registry.

LAURENS LINCOLNS and WILLIAM BICKELL are the same person

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