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Wondercoin has hit first place in clad quarter registry!!
cladking
Posts: 28,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
Congratulations.
I never even saw you coming. It must be a truly superb set with an average grade over MS-67.
It even has the all-time highest rating.
I never even saw you coming. It must be a truly superb set with an average grade over MS-67.
It even has the all-time highest rating.
Tempus fugit.
0
Comments
Wondercoin
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
clads
<< <i>
But I dare you to crack them all out and resubmit. How much do you think your Gpa would drop? (You'd likely still have the best set though as everyone else's Gpa would drop too).
The Mint State clad quarters were really an overlooked series for many years. With the advent of the 1932-date complete Registry set of Washington through State quarters, some collectors simply could not ignore the clads any longer (they needed to fill in between their silver quarter and state quarter collections). I know a number of these collectors have been quite surprised at just how difficult it actually is to locate high grade MS Clad quarters.
Obviously, Cladking has been preaching this for years. Registrycoin (a former #1 set holder) saw first hand just how tough it is to acquire these coins and Datentype has poured through thousands, if not tens of thousands, of clad quarter era mint sets hunting for these as well for many years.
The great thing is that these coins can still be cherrypicked at coin shows and coin shops across the country for a dollar or two. Yes, it is getting harder and harder with each passing year, but, unlike some of the earlier collections, clad quarters can still "be had" for a song with a dedicated search. I recommend this series to almost anyone interested in Washington or state quarters.
Lincolnsrule: My clad quarter set is basically just like many other PCGS collections I have - some coins are super high specimens which can be cracked out and resubmitted time and time again with no fear of a downgrade (and are shot upgrades), while other coins are solid for the grade, but a risky propostion if they were to be cracked out and resubmitted, while, finally, some coins are "squeekers" for the grade with a strong chance of coming back a grade under if cracked out and reubmitted.
Thanks again everyone.
Wondercoin
<< <i>The great thing is that these coins can still be cherrypicked >>
This was and is very true. When I was competing with Mr. Green, now a Kennedy collector, for the top spot in the ms silver Washington quarters, I contemplated the clads, a little. At that time, it was still an "open set" and not appreciated very much, if at all. If I decided to collect them, I would then have to find to buy, or "make" the subsequent new issues, but when the state quarter program was proposed, and I later became #1 in the early years of the state quarters registry, the addition of the clad Washington collection seemed like a natural. Also, I had heard that a "global" Washington quarter registry set, "1932-date" was being suggested to pcgs, and I thought the clads would be an easy addition. Realize that this was when most reg. collectors "made" a lot of their coins. This isn't done so much today in general, but, as Mitch says, this opportunity, amazingly, still exists with the clad quarters. The clads in ms67+ were more difficult to acquire than I had thought, making this set one of the most fun to fill and upgrade. White examples of high grade, to me, are just beautiful (maybe because it feels like I've spent a lifetime seeing/spending circulated 1965, 1966 and 1967 examples), and some ms toned examples are simply outstanding coins compared to ones in any series.
Some were asking about a good new set to collect. These clads may be a good candidate, and are a now obviously a very respected collection to own. Again, congratulations Wondercoin!
Ken
My son, Justin, is gearing up to handle the photography of many of my coins. So, hopefully, I can have some nice scans later this month.
Wondercoin
And well deserved. There's no one I know of who enjoys these coins and knows as much about them as he does.
Congratulations, Mr. Wondercoin!
Just Having Fun
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
peacockcoins
<< <i>Ken: Thanks. It is always tough to select a single coin from one's collection, but, I would say my favorite coin is the 1969(p) MS67 Washington Quarter. That date is quite scarce in MS67 grade (along the lines of, say, the 54(d), 61(d) or 62(d) from the silver series. A real "sleeper" coin IMHO.
My son, Justin, is gearing up to handle the photography of many of my coins. So, hopefully, I can have some nice scans later this month.
Wondercoin >>
Anyone who has worked on the clad quarters is going to appreciate the '69-P in
high grade simply because it is so tough. What most other people don't understand
is that this coin is tough even in the lower grades. Just finding a nice attractive ex-
ample isn't easy and would be impossible if there were any significant demand for
these coins. There are no rolls. Mint sets were made in relatively small numbers for
the date and this sets has suffered horrendous attrition. Many of the surviving sets
have tarnished and ugly coins in them. But most importantly the mint set '69 quarters
were ugly the day they were put in the sets.
I've concentrated my efforts on this coin for a third of a century and only have a very
small handfull of coins that might have a shot at MS-67. Only one or two are really
lock MS-66. I've chased these coins down by zip code when I can identify where a gem
originated but have had relatively little success here too. You can find a run of "gems"
but almost invariably most will have the retained planchet scratches which are so typ-
ical on this date and are so unattractive.
If you tire of searching for high grade '54-D, '61-D, or '62-D coins then you can always
just settle for a gem or a very choice coin. This won't be so easy for many of the clads
and especially the '69.
Those '82-P's can be awful tough, too.
CK: My personal active search has only been now for around 21 years. I slabbed the MS67 in my set a few years ago, but a collector I have worked with for many years asked me for the coin to fill a hole in his collection. I sold it to him, but asked that I would appreciate it if I might be offered the coin back if he ever decided to sell it. As is often the case, an interesting (and likely very profitable) real estate deal took precedence for that collector over some coins in a coin collection, which was fortunate for me I guess.
What is so interesting about the 1969(p) quarter and many other clad coins just like it is that Price Guide values are often WAY beneath the coins actual value (and sometimes WAY above as well so knowledge is the key), which makes it much easier for the collector to cherry-pick at shows or coin shops for "cents on the dollar" and creates an "opportunity" in the coin market for the collector who wants to dedicate himself to a particular series. For example, this 1969(p) quarter we are discussing was listed in the CU Price Guide at $300 at the beginning of this year. Following the latest updates, the price today stands at $3,500 (still way beneath the price of silver quarter counterparts of equal difficulty and rarity I believe).
Wondercoin
Congratulations, agree with all the posts that this is a tough series that USED to be easy to get good coins, cheap (though this has not been the case recently - in the past 3 to 4 years).
When I too had gotten very serious/interested in the series (about 7 years ago or so). I had taken the "pilot fish" approach and started accumulating quite a few clad Washington P-mint quarters (just like with the tough early Ike years of 71, 72, and somewhat, 73) assuming a comparable relationship in quality/availability etc, given the difference in coin size. We'll see how that theory will work out in a few years.
Would also be interested if you have the 71p in MS67 to see your opinion in how it compares with the 69p in MS67.
Hope to see the details of the collection (pictures would be great) as I remind myself that I desperately try to get to 100% complete at 66.33 (my long term goal which is getting longer and loooooonger to achieve ...).
I love Ike dollars and all other dollar series !!!
I also love Major Circulation Strike Type Sets, clad Washingtons ('65 to '98) and key date coins !!!!!
If ignorance is bliss, shouldn't we have more happy people ??
Wondercoin
<< <i>Fantasiize: I believe the 1971(p) is nearly as tough as the 1969(p) and is also a major favorite of mine in the series. Both the 69(p) and 71(p) are pop 3/0 coins. I have one in my set, the #2 set has another and a third coin is off with a collector who I helped buy it a few years ago. The Price Guide was raised on the 1971(p) recently from around $300 to $2,750 in MS67. IMHO, the 71(p) quarter in MS67 is around as difficult as, say, a 52(d) silver quarter in MS67, which trades around $5,000-$6,500 (but, the 71(p) is about half the pop as well). Of course, 1971 is a very cool year for Philadelphia coins - the Half Dollar is one of the toughest coins in that entire series in MS67, while the Ike is a tough coin in MS66 and unheard of in MS67 grade. Just like the 69(p), the 71(p) comes downright "ugly" in the Mint Sets (often with dull luster, heavy marks and little eye appeal). While rolls of 1971(p) quarters bid at just $31.00, I have found them to be very challenging to locate (fresh and original that is) during a roughly 20 year search for them. In fact, the ratio of 1971(p) to 1971(d) quarter rolls I have personally uncovered over the past nearly 2 decades is probably close to nearly 10-1 in favor of "d" mint rolls - yet the bid on "d" mint rolls is more than 50% of the price of the elusive "p" mint rolls. Bottom line, the 71(p) quarter in grades MS66 and better is a very challenging coin, with true MS67 specimens being downright "scarce" or "rare" I believe.
Wondercoin >>
The '71-P and '69-P are about equally tough in the slightly lower grades also. But as you
go down the spectrum the '71 becomes much more common. You can find a small handful
of gem '71's for each gem '69.
There are original rolls of the '71 out there though I confess I've spent little effort finding
them since they were current. All the ones I've seen have had pretty lousy coins in them.
While the rolls exist, they are very scarce compared to what most people think. I'd doubt
that more than a few thousand of these rolls were set aside and there has been a strong
attrition. This is a veritable cornucopia compared to the '69's set aside. And, yes, the '71-D
is much easier to find in rolls. The problem with most all roll coins from this era is that the
strikes are horrendous. You can find nice clean coins in the rolls with considerable effort
(often more easily than the mint sets), but they'll be poor strikes from worn dies. Fewer
than 1% of many of these early coins will be good strikes in the rolls while as many as 25%
will be in the mint sets.
There has never been a true market in any of the mint state clad quarter rolls until the mid-
'90's when the demand for the '82 and '83 rolls crept up. In the last few years there is a
market of sorts for the '90's rolls and, of course, the states issues. There simply hasn't been
the supply nor the demand. When a seller actually caught up with a buyer the rolls would u-
sually trade at a negotiated price that had little relationship to CDN. This price was (is) typ-
ically lower but can be much higher on good quality or unusual rolls. There are no real mar-
ket makers in these coins and where they are available the price will be fluid. Much of the
problem has always been that there is no real demand. Even those who are buying the rolls
have little interest in the coins or the rolls; they are normally seeking varieties or gems. If a
roll has nothing in it of interest it will usually go into circulation. Buyers adjust their price to
the odds of finding something of value in the roll. Many of these roll are extremely good deals
but no matter how scarce a roll is if it's a typical roll of unattractive, banged up weakly struck
garbage you will not get your money back unless someone is willing to pay a roll premium for
it. The lack of supply also puts a damper on these. Putting together a roll set is a virtual im-
possibility. Yes, you can assemble such a set from mint sets easily enough if you can find the
sets but original rolls are an hurculean task. If you don't believe it consider this; everyone knew
in advance that there would be no '83 mint sets so larger numbers of rolls were set aside. The
mintage of the souvenir mint sets even increased. Despite this increased setting aside the '83-P
quarter roll now wholesales for more than $1,000 !!! Imagine how difficult some of these other
rolls are!!!
As time goes on many things will become clear about this set and this will likely add to its allure.
Mark: Not exactly a fair assessment of THIS series vs. clad coins in general -right? In other words, there are plenty of (2) point swings in clad coinage in general - right? For example, Roosies that can grade range from, say, MS66 to MS68 over time, or Kennedys that can grade range from MS66 to MS68 over time, etc. Plenty of examples in classic coins as well.
IMHO, PCGS has graded clad quarters extremely consistently over the years. Heck, if they didn't, would there be just (3) 1969(p) and (3) 1971(p) MS67 quarters after nearly (20) years of grading? How many MS65's here went to MS67? How many MS66 coins jumped to MS68? Of course - -0- I suspect after (20) years of grading. In fact, just (3) MS67's exist in the dates we have been discussing (and most other dates fit the same pattern, but just to keep on track I am limiting this to a discussion of 69(p) and 71(p)).
That said, are there some possible clad quarter upgrades out there from coins submitted years ago - of course. Are there even a few 2 point upgrades possible - yes - especially because it is not that uncommon for a clad quarter to have been submitted in its fresh and original state in years past (i.e. with a touch of haze or light spotting). Sometimes, a bit of "professional conservation" gets added into the mix to solve whatever problem the grading services did not like on the prior grading attemtps (again, all series).
Wondercoin
i guess I would like to see the 69-p and 71-p to see if they are real ms67 quality or just an ms66 that they saw differently that particular day. The funniest events are when i have sent coins into D. hall for free review and they come back in a couple of days with no change in grades and some scribble marks. Upon cracking and resubmitting them blindly they come back with the grade they should have had - hence spend the money and the grades will come. Rick M. the old pcgs Pres. used to really understand this series I feel.
Mark: You are getting old, as you forget about about a 98(d) Kennedy and a few 1985 Jeffs.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"but for sure never kennedy's and Jeff's"
Mark: You are getting old, as you forget about about a 98(d) Kennedy and a few 1985 Jeffs.
Wondercoin
Mitch, who's the one that's getting old? Were we not partners on the 98-d kennedy that went between ms67 and ms66 that was by far the nicest shot ms68 i have seen. I see that it's now pop 2/0 (after i made #1 of course), where's my half of the market value you owe me, since I found the coin?
Wondercoin
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...