I'll take the risk of criticism...

laurentyvan · July 1, 2005 3:57AM

Within the last six months more and more lightsiders have been collecting Darkside coins which I think is fine. I have struggled to maintain interest in the relevent posts however because everything seems to be centered on grades. The atmosphere from the lightside seems to be accompanying their posts: grades, grades, grades. A recent post from MM shows the finest ever in Canadian commemorative coins-where's the appeal? If I visit two or three coin stores I'm sure I could collect nothing but MS69 or 70's; so what? These are produced in vast quantities-very little challenge in collecting late model commemorative coins in high grade (I think).

Pardon my comment if it offends you-lately much of what goes on here seems to be lifted right out of the Lightside where grade madness rules.

1jester · July 1, 2005 5:12AM

I too have noticed an increasing tendency toward competitiveness and boasting.

I guess we have to step up to the plate and drown it out with good old-fashioned Darkside values!

elverno · July 1, 2005 5:15AM

Cool. Actually I pretty much cruise past the 'grades' entries. It never interested me in the first place, and high-grade coins from my period cost far more than I can afford...

WhiteTornado · July 1, 2005 5:49AM

That's why I try to balance everything out by collecting cheap stuff.

lordmarcovan · July 1, 2005 6:56AM

<< Very little challenge in collecting late model commemorative coins in high grade (I think). >>

Oh, I dunno. It depends on HOW high a grade you're talkin' about. If you want 'em slabbed, and you need a certain number like 69 DCAM on those slab labels, I would imagine it can be challenging indeed. (Not that I'd know, because like you, I would find it crushingly dull.)

I for one don't find anything wrong with collecting a little plastic along with your coins, though, if that floats your boat. And a little good-natured competition can be fun- that's what the Registry is all about (or should be all about).

Do these things have a place in the Darkside? Sure. Why not? The Darkside is a vast realm in which there's plenty of room for all.

I'll stick with stuff that has some history, personally, since that is what drew me to coins in the first place. But others collect for different reasons, like aesthetics, for example. You can't deny that a lot of supergrade modern stuff is aesthetically pleasing.

AuldFartte · July 1, 2005 7:17AM

I tend to agree with LordM, particularly with regard to there being "plenty of room for all" ... but the "my grade is higher than yours" approach turns me off. I only collect Darkside coins for the aesthetics, different designs, mucho history ... the usual reasons.

I don't think I've ever opened a "guess the grade" Darkside thread. I like beautiful coins, and the Pf69D-Cams and U-Cams can be gorgeous. I'll sure tell someone that when they post a beauty, and I'll also contribute to giving a guy a "pat on the back" for assembling a high grade collection because that's what makes him happy. I know I appreciate positive comments from all you folks when I post pics of a coin I added to my collection. I'll try to do the same for anyone here

... but I won't be a part of the madness.

ksteelheader · July 1, 2005 7:20AM

<< very little challenge in collecting late model commemorative coins in high grade (I think). >>

I wonder if that's why half of my modern Canadian S1$ commemoratives are graded PR67DCAM and PR68DCAM??

Now, with that said, I do agree with most of what you said!

Ken

cosmicdebris · July 1, 2005 7:42AM

That's why I deslab 99% of my coins upon arrival.

1jester · July 1, 2005 7:51AM

Personally, I really enjoy the "guess the grade" threads; they help us practice our skills. Additionally, I think it's fine to go after high quality coins, even the highest grades possible. I just think we should be careful not to brag or boast about our own coins being better than those of other people. I realize, it's a fine line sometimes, and I truly enjoy seeing others' coins, from the low grade ones to the very high graded ones (read-MacCrimmon or MadMarty or JamminJ or RareCanadian type coins).

"You can't deny that a lot of supergrade modern stuff is aesthetically pleasing." --LordMiniVan

coinkat · July 1, 2005 8:10AM

I don't think I have made or even asked about grades lately, but as time goes on, quality will become more important...the plastic part is not all that relevant. Quality for the grade.

lordmarcovan · July 1, 2005 8:22AM

Jester: in the spirit of civilized Darkside discourse: bite me.

goldrush00013 · July 1, 2005 8:25AM

Aethelred · July 1, 2005 8:41AM

I for one welcome the Lightsiders who have discovered our little backwater, they bring a fresh perspective and often new ways of looking at things. However, many of us do not view the number on the slab as the most critical aspect of a coin, history and art mean more to most of us. Having said that, I do get most of my better coins slabbed for a number of reasons. For example, when the times comes to sell I believe my coins will be more liquid that way. If I were to die my wife will have an easier task selling them slabbed in my opinion. Slabs are inert and a safe way to store my coins in the environment of a bank vault where I have no control over conditions. There is also a pride issue, for example I can point to my 1817 Sixpence which is a top-pop coin and honestly tell people that there is not a better example known, to me that matters at least a little.

I like the "guess the grade" threads and have even authored several, I like to know how others grade coins and what they like and don't like, as Jester said it helps us all practice our skills. For me it is not an issue of thinking "my coin is better than yours," I am not trying to beat anyone.

I like Laurent as a person and have the highest respect for his opinions, but I do not agree fully with his thoughts on moderns. While many are made in vast numbers for fans of Elvis in the third-world, others are quite rare and hard to come by. I have had a very hard time locating a 1998 Silver Britannia proof set and I'll admit that I love the Britannia Series, they are pretty, well designed and made in very limited numbers (unlike American Eagles).

In short, I believe the Darkside is a vast frontier with huge unexplored areas. I think there is room for those of us who collect for a love of art and history as well as for those of us who want to own only the "best." There is room here for the guy who collects some of the finest Greek coins I have ever seen and for the folks who collect Conders, for the guy who only wants coins with holes in them and the one who likes German medals, room for high grade SA coppers and modern BBLs and penis dollars. There is even a spot for a fellow who wants the coins with an ugly old king who was also a bit crazy on them.

bosox · July 1, 2005 9:07AM

I agree with those that have stated that there is lots of room on the darkside for folks of different ilks. I have registry quality, plasticized Canadian copper which I truly enjoy. I have also collected a substantial amount WWII worldwide coinage, of which 99% is raw and often EF-AU, which I also enjoy very much. I have never personally understood the fascination with MS-75 DD Cam Canadian moderns, but have nothing against those who do. Different strokes for different folks, and as far as I'm concerned all who like world coins are welcome on the darkside.

coinkat · July 1, 2005 9:19AM

I really mean what I say with respect to quality for the grade. There is a difference and it is not about money and the size of one's wallet. There are really bad examples of coins that fall into the spectrum of several grades and those should be avoided because if they are bought, even at a discount, it will be difficult to sell them when that time comes.

spoon · July 1, 2005 9:21AM

I kinda agree with Laurent's lament. The forum has been growing tame.

Now, I don't think it is so much a function of there being a Liteside creep on the place, rather we've been seeing more of the same and more modern stuff. That is, the focus of the forum has been narrowing. We were long spoiled by frequent posts of off-the-wall stuff like Jester's Challenge provided. But those more eclectic among us, it seems, have been tapering off in their posts. So I guess we only have ourselves to blame for our own disappointment. But also the range of stuff that surprises us crabby olskool folks is closing as we see gain more experience.

I'll try my best to throw some more cheap and cool stuff out there. Hope you guys do the same

wybrit · July 1, 2005 11:47AM

Even though my scope of collecting is limited, I do enjoy looking at the coins others collect and post here, even if I can't offer anything intelligent in a reply post. There are some fabulous threads documenting history as well as the pieces themselves. Many of these quality threads get few replies and I must confess that bothers me a bit. In this sense, I believe we reaped what we have sown.

I even like many of the brag threads, since there are usually some great pictures that go with them. There are many people here not merely interested in collecting but also having an incredible eye for a quality coin - I appreciate that.

Although I am guilty of it in the past, I have decided that I am not a fan of the "grades-in" threads. I still submit to TPGs but will not post results on this forum anymore, good or bad. I do like the "guess the grade" threads, though and sometimes originate/participate.

I find myself mostly agreeing with Laurent on moderns - especially euros. What doesn't work for me does work for others though. Many have aired credible arguments for their collecting choices and I respect that.

I think this is still the best forum for world and British coins around - great coins and great people.

spinaker2000 · July 1, 2005 12:12PM

Here's my 2 cents worth.

The forum is still evolving. When I first arrived, you didn't even mention the word "slab" here. "Registry" was an even worser evil. Many of us came here to escape the registry, but it followed. I don't participate in it, but if anyone is going to have an "all time number one set" I'm glad it's one of us!!

Guess the grade is just a game, a time killer. I think it's fun and educational. I don't mine the "grades in" threads. I like seeing what you guys are submitting and what may possibably be for sale soon. Besides, it's not as easy as you think to make a MS67+ of anything.
I do feel that the forum is slowing down in quality post. Actually, it's just plain slowing down.

Edited to add, Thanks to Laurent for providing this subject and discussion in a tasteful and adult manor.

I nominate this thread for DPOTD.

laurentyvan · July 1, 2005 1:05PM

But those more eclectic among us, it seems, have been tapering off in their posts. So I guess we only have ourselves to blame for our own disappointment.

I am guilty of this;you get out of the pot what you put into the pot.

I will try to post more often though personal circumstances may make it difficult for a while longer.

In short, I believe the Darkside is a vast frontier with huge unexplored areas Well, I agree. So why are we revisiting moderns and commems so tied to grades. Hey, a nice coin is a nice coin. What turns me off personally are the "grades are in" threads. All coins are interesting but are we presenting coins or grades as the feature? A grade mentioned within the coin presentations as Mac and others do is fine.

Sigh... I guess it's the attitude of the "grade is most important" poster that throws me off sometimes.

And don't get me wrong-when Cacheman or Cosmicdebris and others present a 100 or 200 year old quality piece, darn right I want to know the grade, as part of the overall.

What I don't like is clicking hastily and glancing at the Darkside post titles and re-clicking, thinking I have hit the lightside by mistake.

cladking · July 1, 2005 1:23PM

There aren't many darkside coins that interest me in high grades except that many of
the moderns do interest me only in unc. There are a few like British, and French that
are interesting in very high grades but generally I'm just looking for uncs.

I agree with LordMarcovan that the world is a big enough place.

While it's possible a few "bad habits" could be brought here fropm the liteside, fresh
input should ultimately be good for any hobby though it can sometimes cause market
imbalances that hurt individual collectors.

I'm not going to worry about it or get caught up in it (with a few exceptions).

1jester · July 1, 2005 4:49PM

"...If I were to die..." --Bag-o-Bones

Does that mean you would be the "un-dead" king???

SYRACUSIAN · July 1, 2005 5:55PM

Every weekend we seem to have a thread that brings out all the lurkers, ex-regulars here.

Great replies everybody to a very brave question.

So yes, some members look for the ego boost of a number one Registry spot, but I personally welcome these threads when most oldtimers almost don't post at all anymore.I also found it hilarious to see MM's latest guess the grade thread just below this one.

Sylvestius · July 1, 2005 6:32PM

The liteside must really love it when i wander in with "in my 1920s US raw collection i'm aiming for EF/UNC and nothing higher"

The total-purist litesiders are so fun to wind up. (Although i tend to be leaning towards purist myself)

I moved away from US coins a while back because i too got fed up of the following posts;

1) Grades, grades, grades.
2) Is this a slider?
3) Can i cross this over?
4) Look at the magenta tone...
5) Is this a good profit margin?
6) Look at my 1790s proof. I totally kick ass unlike the rest of you losers who collect State Quarters
7) State Quarters and ton and tons of modern commems.
8) If i break this MS68 out of the slab and submit to XXX can it be MS69 with the price tag altered accordingly? although i bought it at a steal at MS67 prices. (Seriously who cares it's dated 2004 anyhow!)
9) Registry Sets
10) Morgan Dollars (What you mean there's other coins? Buuuffallo Nick...kel? eh?)
11) Profit, profit, profit.
12) Errors! (This is my real pet hate, i just don't get the whole idea or point of errors)

Now it would be nice to here this;

1) Geeze it looks like I overpaid (Rather than, ah you overpaid there!)
2) Just cracked this out for my collection to keep.
3) The history behind these coins is intriguing
4) This coin is a well centred specimen, no problems, decent strike, no doubling, no other 'errors' a true beauty of history and æsthetic design.
5) Resale value? What's that? (Like you're ever gonna hear that one on the liteside!)
6) You know there are coins older than 1793 (no not 1792...)

rhound1977 · July 1, 2005 9:36PM

I will read all of this thread later, but I don't see anything here as criticism, we all have a our likes and dislikes, and we Darksiders are a very diverse group of collectors. That is what world coins are all
about. I for one find 99% of the posts here of interest, and just like the TV I can change the channel (skip those that do not interest me). It's rare (I think) that anyone here is offended by what others
say and think, we all have opinions and thoughts, and they are honored and respected here.

Though I am not interested in Registry, I can see where the challenge with ones self and others could be fun, it's all in the chase. The interest in world coins for all of the collector realm does two things;
enhances the collector base which in turn can bring more world coins out of the dark. It also promotes a more healthy return for one's investment (law of supply and demand), but on the flip side can
also make collecting a little more costly

Lately I have seen more LiteSide dealers also having Darkside stock at shows, where in the past they did not carry it with them. So I think there has been a positive influence to the World Coin collecting
realm.

sumnom · July 1, 2005 10:01PM

I am far more interested in the coin than the grades. I hardly ever contribute to things over on the liteside because discussing grades and toning interest me far less than learning about the coins themselves. I do like to have high grade examples of the coins I collect but that is not the purpose of my collecting.

When we are treated to images and explanations of coins and medals, the fact that the piece in question is this or that grade does not oft come up. Instead we talk about the history of the piece, the artistic merit of the design, and the adventures of finding out treasures. These are the things that interest me about numismatics.

Sylvestius · July 1, 2005 10:32PM

<< I am far more interested in the coin than the grades. I hardly ever contribute to things over on the liteside because discussing grades and toning interest me far less than learning about the coins themselves. I do like to have high grade examples of the coins I collect but that is not the purpose of my collecting.

When we are treated to images and explanations of coins and medals, the fact that the piece in question is this or that grade does not oft come up. Instead we talk about the history of the piece, the artistic merit of the design, and the adventures of finding out treasures. These are the things that interest me about numismatics. >>

Well said! I couldn't agree more.

cladking · July 1, 2005 10:38PM

There are a couple of factors that make it unlikely that "registry madness" will take
over on the darkside. The biggest one is the simple fact that a larger proportion of
the coins will be simply unavailable in the highest grades. Even where they are avail-
able there is usually a smaller quality range so there's just not a large difference be-
tween the worst and the best. Prices are sometimes set or strongly influenced by col-
lectors in the home country. Such collectors would tend to dump coins which go way
up in price and use the profits to buy other coins from the same country. This would
act as a huge brake on prices of the highest grades. This effect might be a little more
limited in countries where the collector base is growing very rapidly because, supposedly,
these collectors might have more interest in high grades and slabbing.

Some of the most popular series with a wider spread in quality and coins which can be
found with some regularity might get interest in high grades but it's very hard to picture
anyone chasing old cu/ ni Portuguese escudos in gem or ultra gem.

Registry sets? Maybe. But it's more likely that since sets are so difficult to complete
and there's less interest in high grades that sets will get a lot more points for complete-
ness and a lot fewer for higher grades.

Fairlaneman · July 2, 2005 2:58AM

Being not seen and not heard, for the most part, has became a decent policy for me.

I do enjoy the grading threads to see what some of the masters say about a coin. They supply some knowledge about the differences between lightside and darkside grading that is drastically needed. As far as modern coinage, to each his own. Registry sets, again to each his own. Of course the photos are fantastic here. Some opinions are, shall we say, way overboard and closed minded. Again, to each his own.

I just wish that a occurance that happened a few months back would not have happened. But no control was present to curtail that occurance. Even with this unplesant occurance that happened I come here every day to see whats going on. All in all this forum is very enjoyable.

Cheers.

Ken

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · July 2, 2005 3:30AM

A recent post from MM shows the finest ever in Canadian commemorative coins-where's the appeal? If I visit two or three coin stores I'm sure I could collect nothing but MS69 or 70's; so what? These are produced in vast quantities-very little challenge in collecting late model commemorative coins in high grade (I think).

I haven't had time to read all the posts in this thread, but here's my views on the original comments ...

where's the appeal The coins look great.

I'm sure I could collect nothing but MS69 or 70's Sure - I like the best looking coin I can afford too.

very little challenge in collecting late model commemorative coins in high grade Who says the joys of collecting are based on the challenge involved. Which is better, the chase or the catch?

My collection goal is a complete set of Canadian 5 cent pieces. This spans from 1858 to now, as does my country's history. And, many events in that history are reflected in those coins - the challenges of World War II, the changing economy that has seen coinage metals go from silver to nickel to steel, and the modern commemerative nickels reminding us of past events, etc.

Ya, I could do all this with raw coins, but I like the look of the coins in plastic.

satootoko · July 2, 2005 4:11AM

<< There is even a spot for a fellow who wants the coins with an ugly old king who was also a bit crazy on them. >>

Not sure I would go quite that far.

Sylvestius · July 2, 2005 4:13AM

<< Which is better, the chase or the catch? >>

For me it's undoubtedly the chase. I get bored of it once i've got it. I just like difficult sets that i can not afford nor complete... it gives me something off the wall to keep chasing.

If i ever actually finished a set i think i'd be lost.

morgannut2 · July 2, 2005 9:02AM

After reading all the posts, I conclude all darkside members are way too mentally balanced to read the lightside forum!!

WhiteLighnin · July 2, 2005 3:23PM

I think like someone else said, there's room for every kind of collector here....I started collecting the Canadian p/l 50 cent pieces because i like the design of the 1953 to now.....to fullfill my interest, i am collecting both a raw and a certified set, and quite honestly look at my album more than i do the slabs, having said that, i try and get the highest graded ones i can for the slabbed set. Now to give you a lil different perspective on "modern" collecting, the 50 cent set i am collecting is getting me into more areas to learn the darkside, i can collect these while i am learning about new areas of darkside coins and making up my mind in what direction to go then. I guess you could say it is one of my "baby steps" in branching out from my (gulp) Morgan set.... Also during this process, i have stumbled across some other areas i like, like the GB mint and proof sets, still modern, but just another baby step to fullfill my collecting while i learn and find something that knocks my socks off and gets me going there. An example of what i am trying to get across.... I recently ran across some amazing late 1800 and early 1900's Canadian quarters that really sparked my interest and will probably be my next venture, but i would not have found them if i wasn't looking to add to my modern 50 cent collection and stumbled across them.... all in all, i like both high grade moderns and low grade older coins, and everything in-between, i collect because i enjoy looking at them and i also like to have the PL 67 ULTRA CAMEOS from NGC to enjoy.....i don't collect them to jump on here and say "I have a top pop coin", but i sure do enjoy knowing that i have a few in my collection, even if they are from the 1950's and 60's........some of us are new to the Darkside, so we are just collecting what we like and can learn about a lil quicker until we grow up and be bigboys.....but lookout when we do!!!!!!!!!!!!

MadMarty · July 3, 2005 7:24AM

Ouch, I feel I just got kicked in the nuts by a fellow darksider!! 1st, the only reason I started chasing those Canada proofs was BECAUSE I COULD!!! (Insert evil laughter here!). Like some of the other forum members I like the way my darkside coins look in slabs (plus I have an idea of the grade, other than UNC or BU). I also have plenty of circ sets in books that will never be put into slabs.

Why do I put the higher grade stuff in slabs, because when I kick off I don't want my family getting the BIG STICK, NO GREASE from a dealer. Saying every UNC coin is a slider and they are worth $1 each. At lease in the slab they can put them on E-Bay and sell them off right!

As for the Canada Commens in PF69DCAM, that set was a pain in the ass to put together. I would expect a comment like that out of a LIGHTSIDER!, but not a darksider! I would expect a great job, now go find some old stuff! I'm hurt! I worked very hard putting together a set I like, and to have it bashed here! SHAME!!!

ksteelheader · July 3, 2005 7:56AM

<< Ouch, I feel I just got kicked in the nuts by a fellow darksider!! 1st, the only reason I started chasing those Canada proofs was BECAUSE I COULD!!! (Insert evil laughter here!). Like some of the other forum members I like the way my darkside coins look in slabs (plus I have an idea of the grade, other than UNC or BU). I also have plenty of circ sets in books that will never be put into slabs.

Why do I put the higher grade stuff in slabs, because when I kick off I don't want my family getting the BIG STICK, NO GREASE from a dealer. Saying every UNC coin is a slider and they are worth $1 each. At lease in the slab they can put them on E-Bay and sell them off right!

As for the Canada Commens in PF69DCAM, that set was a pain in the ass to put together. I would expect a comment like that out of a LIGHTSIDER!, but not a darksider! I would expect a great job, now go find some old stuff! I'm hurt! I worked very hard putting together a set I like, and to have it bashed here! SHAME!!! >>

I agree! I've got a set for the grand daughter almost completed and it's been a pain in the ass to put together. Anyone that thinks it's so darn easy, try doing one!!

MadMarty · July 3, 2005 8:00AM

<< I agree! I've got a set for the grand daughter almost completed and it's been a pain in the ass to put together. Anyone that thinks it's so darn easy, try doing one!!
>>

It's easy! Remember a true DARKSIDER does not keep coins in slabs.. So a raw set is just as good as a set full of PR69DCAMs!!! Ken, it's time to face it, we're just DARKSIDE WANNABEs™

ksteelheader · July 3, 2005 8:04AM

<< 

<< I agree! I've got a set for the grand daughter almost completed and it's been a pain in the ass to put together. Anyone that thinks it's so darn easy, try doing one!!
>>

It's easy! Remember a true DARKSIDER does not keep coins in slabs.. So a raw set is just as good as a set full of PR69DCAMs!!! Ken, it's time to face it, we're just DARKSIDE WANNABEs™ >>

Well then, I'll put together a complete set of PR69DCAM $1 Commem's and someone can put together a set raw and we'll sell them on ebay. Winner takes all!

WhiteLighnin · July 3, 2005 8:14AM

Come ta think of it Marty....I want my money back!!! You said those halves were "toppops" and 2/0 pops and stuff like that!!!!! Now i find out they are as common as pocket change!!!!!!

ksteelheader · July 3, 2005 8:26AM

<<

Come ta think of it Marty....I want my money back!!! You said those halves were "toppops" and 2/0 pops and stuff like that!!!!! Now i find out they are as common as pocket change!!!!!! >>

WhiteLighnin · July 3, 2005 8:34AM

<< 

<<

Come ta think of it Marty....I want my money back!!! You said those halves were "toppops" and 2/0 pops and stuff like that!!!!! Now i find out they are as common as pocket change!!!!!! >>

>>

He led me to believe that PL67 UDC was sumthin special.....SHIZBOT!!!! Now i find out 69's and 70's are in every coin shop.......

ksteelheader · July 3, 2005 8:43AM

<< 

<< 

<<

Come ta think of it Marty....I want my money back!!! You said those halves were "toppops" and 2/0 pops and stuff like that!!!!! Now i find out they are as common as pocket change!!!!!! >>

>>

He led me to believe that PL67 UDC was sumthin special.....SHIZBOT!!!! Now i find out 69's and 70's are in every coin shop.......

>>

Maybe the guy that says so can get them for you at wholesale. You wouldn't even need to snipe them!!

WhiteLighnin · July 3, 2005 8:45AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<<

Come ta think of it Marty....I want my money back!!! You said those halves were "toppops" and 2/0 pops and stuff like that!!!!! Now i find out they are as common as pocket change!!!!!! >>

>>

He led me to believe that PL67 UDC was sumthin special.....SHIZBOT!!!! Now i find out 69's and 70's are in every coin shop.......

>>

Maybe the guy that says so can get them for you at wholesale. You wouldn't even need to snipe them!!

>>

I would think Marty would be more than happy to give me my money back, now that he's been found out for the "wannabe" that he is!!!!!!

spoon · July 3, 2005 8:46AM

<< It's easy! Remember a true DARKSIDER does not keep coins in slabs.. So a raw set is just as good as a set full of PR69DCAMs!!! Ken, it's time to face it, we're just DARKSIDE WANNABEs™ >>

Not trying to prolong a feud here, rather to reemphasize the whole difference of opinions point... but what you said here is spot on for a lot of people. A raw set of UNCs can be just as good as 69s. Then there are some who think a VF set is just as good as UNC. Others don't even bother with sets and collect by impulse. Doesn't matter.

Your set is awesome. That much is undeniable. But not everyone can do that, nor does everyone want to do that. You, being the top dog in the Greyside game, were the best example in the case of top-quality, slabbing collectors. Nothing personal, just an easy and familiar point of reference for one side of the argument.

Keep up the good work, look forward to the next set

MadMarty · July 3, 2005 8:56AM

<< 

<< It's easy! Remember a true DARKSIDER does not keep coins in slabs.. So a raw set is just as good as a set full of PR69DCAMs!!! Ken, it's time to face it, we're just DARKSIDE WANNABEs™ >>

Not trying to prolong a feud here, rather to reemphasize the whole difference of opinions point... but what you said here is spot on for a lot of people. A raw set of UNCs can be just as good as 69s. Then there are some who think a VF set is just as good as UNC. Others don't even bother with sets and collect by impulse. Doesn't matter.

Your set is awesome. That much is undeniable. But not everyone can do that, nor does everyone want to do that. You, being the top dog in the Greyside game, were the best example in the case of top-quality, slabbing collectors. Nothing personal, just an easy and familiar point of reference for one side of the argument.

Keep up the good work, look forward to the next set

>>

I agree with you.. I usually don't build sets, but I do collect coins I like! Just look back at some of my picture posts.. and yes, when I score a nice coin I like to show it off! That's one of the fun things about this forum...

spoon · July 3, 2005 9:02AM

In response to the last few posts on the scarcity of high-60s...

The point being made is that moderns are made to high-specs and can commonly be found in 60+ grades, in fact they're expected to be in the 60s. For those "purists" (for lack of a better term!), it personally doesn't matter whether a coin is 67 or 63 so they're all in the same boat. Profit or resale value is an afterthought for these people. Excluding the value aspect, the frenzy for higher numbers with vaguely noticable differences starts to look like a simple neurosis. Consider how non-coin collectors look at folks who spend 50 bucks on an old coin. Then consider how "purists" look at slabbers and top-pop collectors. Same deal. They just don't see the point because they themselves are content without it.

Stork · July 3, 2005 9:19AM

<< Others don't even bother with sets and collect by impulse. >>

Geez, I've been found out!

Cathy

cladking · July 3, 2005 10:06AM

<< In response to the last few posts on the scarcity of high-60s...

The point being made is that moderns are made to high-specs and can commonly be found in 60+ grades, in fact they're expected to be in the 60s. For those "purists" (for lack of a better term!), it personally doesn't matter whether a coin is 67 or 63 so they're all in the same boat. Profit or resale value is an afterthought for these people. Excluding the value aspect, the frenzy for higher numbers with vaguely noticable differences starts to look like a simple neurosis. Consider how non-coin collectors look at folks who spend 50 bucks on an old coin. Then consider how "purists" look at slabbers and top-pop collectors. Same deal. They just don't see the point because they themselves are content without it. >>

One of the things that characterize many moderns is very poor quality. Except for coins
made for collectors and proofs the quality is often uniformly poor. This doesn't apply to
Swiss or English coins too much but it does apply to US coins. This is probably one of the
larger causes of people seeking nicely made coins; they are often scarce.

Some things are just as collectible in VG as in unc, but others are fascinating for some of
us to collect in gem. I do both. Most tokens, medals, liteside and darkside I collect in any
grade and won't go to a lot of trouble (if any) for an upgrade. Many moderns I collect only
in unc and a few only in gem or superb gem.

Sylvestius · July 3, 2005 3:01PM

<< In response to the last few posts on the scarcity of high-60s...

The point being made is that moderns are made to high-specs and can commonly be found in 60+ grades, in fact they're expected to be in the 60s. For those "purists" (for lack of a better term!), it personally doesn't matter whether a coin is 67 or 63 so they're all in the same boat. >>

That's if you follow that system, to me MS69 or MS63 it's all UNC. One is gem UNC and another is bog standard UNC, but i wouldn't be inclined to want to pay extra for it. UNC is UNC.

Someone once told me my 1924-P $20 Saint was an MS63 slider, i said 'what?' looks more EF to me. Although i have it on good authority that it's a UNC specimen MS63 or MS60, what's the difference? UNC to me and i'd sell as UNC.

Alot of people here are seemingly collecting for their future family generations. Well i might be one on my own here but being selfish i'm collecting for me. If i still have a coin collection when i snuff it then i'm not going to be too bothered what happens to it, i'll be dead i won't care. The initial plan was to sell it before i die and blow all the cash on me, but should i be a little too slow to do that and the grim reaper catch up with me first then well the coins are there and all the coin books are there. The relatives have no excuse why not to look through the books, learn how to grade and price them themselves. If they take them straight to the dealer and get ripped off, well it's their own stupid fault for being so idle as not to do a bit of market research when all the stuff is right there for them.

I've no sympathy.

1jester · July 3, 2005 3:42PM

"I've no sympathy." --Syl

Of course not! You'll be dead!!

MadMarty, you have awesome coins. It's always nice to see them shown here. No doubt it's a serious challenge to find and "make" them, too. I'm glad you're part of the Darkside, even if you're a wannabee...

MadMarty · July 3, 2005 9:06PM

<< "I've no sympathy." --Syl

Of course not! You'll be dead!!

MadMarty, you have awesome coins. It's always nice to see them shown here. No doubt it's a serious challenge to find and "make" them, too. I'm glad you're part of the Darkside, even if you're a wannabee...

>>

my goal here is post a coin to make everyone go...

<< HOLY FORKIN' CHIT'! WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT! >>

Udo · July 3, 2005 9:26PM

<< my goal here is post a coin to make everyone go...

<< HOLY FORKIN' CHIT'! WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT! >>

>>

And you attain this goal everytime

I'll take the risk of criticism...

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