Interesting thing I found out........ (patterns)

Dennis88

Hello everyone,

Guess what, I'm going to do an informational post to you guys about PATTERNS (Just imigane I never did it before, okay?)

For the pattern guys, look up J-156? It's a 1854 pattern cent, with a seated liberty on the obverse and a "1" in a laurel wreath on the obverse:


(from uspatterns.com)

Now look at the reverse of this dutch coin, also a one cent, but a regular issue struck for almost 70 years:



The reverse kinda looks similair don't you think? I've got no idea why this was done, and both Judd and Pollock books don't give the name of the reverse designer, neither does uspatterns.com... I also don't know the name of the dutch designer......... yet

It's a mystery, but I will solve it. My first thought (without any further research) is that the pattern (or another coin with the same design) was used to model the dutch one cent (struck between 1877 and 1940, so AFTER the pattern). It's interesting, 'cause the Dutch and Americans don't have any other similair coin designs....

All tips or hints are welcome!!!

Dennis

Edited to add that there are offcourse some differences.....

lordmarcovan

There is a remarkable similarity, now that you mention it.

But of course the US pattern has an oak wreath, while the Dutch coin has a wreath of orange branches. (Which I've always assumed had something to do with the royal House of Orange).

I have a couple of those Dutch (KM107) cents. But nowhere near that grade.

I personally think it's mere coincidence, but there is certainly a compelling similarity, as you pointed out. Interesting.

Dennis88

Well especially look at the bottom of the wreath..... That's were it caught my eye. Also, the arrangement of most of the leaves are very much the same looking.

numonebuyer

That does not look like a similarity. It looks like the same coin design.

That is really interesting.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>That does not look like a similarity. It looks like the same coin design. >>



Nope. Not the same- you're comparing apples and oranges. (Or acorns and oranges, actually.)

Amazingly similar, though.

But I am thinking if one searched wreath-reverse coin designs of the period, it might be possible to find other close matches. The Austrian 1-kreuzer pieces of the 1860's had a similar wreath reverse, I'm thinkin' (based on memory, here, as I have no picture for comparison.) But those merely had the numeral "1" in the wreath, without the word "cent".

anablep

Nice investigation!

The ribbons certainly look similar. I want to know what is on the obverse of the Dutch cent...

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I want to know what is on the obverse of the Dutch cent... >>



Lion and shields (royal arms of the Netherlands). I have an 1878 in VF20 for $1.50 and an 1883 in F12 for $1.00 if anyone's interested.

Here is the obverse of the gorgeous BU coin Dennis posted.

MrEureka

Dennis - Why would an 1854 pattern be dated 1851?

lloydmincy

NOTHING is even close to similarity. Ribbons, leaves, you name it. Andy, you make me laugh, but you are correct!!!

mdwoods

Is that cent a nickel alloy?

mgoodm3

Interesting observation. The ribbons are similar.

lloydmincy

OK Andy, you say it is 1854. I dont know when to laugh anymore. Looking at it closer, it looks like a 4. Dont have my pattern book at hand - was just... I don't know. I'll shut up...

MrEureka

Info on the pattern here.

mgoodm3

The obv on the pattern is pretty rough and lacks a lot of detail. Can still see the lathe marks.

lloydmincy

Andy, I frequent your uspatterns.com. Great site. Was too lazy to look it up. I'll shut up again.

Coinosaurus

Teaser - what other obscure liberty seated coin can be found with lathe lines??

Dennis88

The leaves self aren't that similair, but the position is. ...

Any more tips are welcome!!!

Dennis