Uh Oh... Someone was sleeping at PSA...

A761506

I am always looking for Bazooka cards, and found this Mays listing just now...



Bad news... it's a counterfeit and it's in a PSA holder. And these cards are not even close to the authentic Bazooka's. All the counterfeits from the 1963 set have equal sized dashes for borders (exactly 8 across the top on all the counterfeits), and all of the corner dashes have been squared off. As anyone who has ever inspected an authentic Bazooka panel from the 60's, the dashes are always random lengths, and it is impossible for squaring of the corner dashes on all 4 corners, as each card borders on at least one other card, in this case, Mays would have a card to its immediate left.

1963 Bazooka Mays

WinPitcher

Would it not have been better for you to email someone at Psa with this info? or did you do that too?

Steve

Knuckles

Place your bets! Place your bets!


How long till *poof*

A761506

Did that... but posted here to show others so they know how to tell the difference. There are tons of these floating around out there and unless someone knows what to look for, they can be easily mistaken.

julen23

Very interesting post.

I hope the seller is aware these are fakes also. Are the '68 bazooka's he has for sale looking real?

Julen
______
Collecting:

1980 Topps: Over 4,000 cards from vending and wax boxes awaiting a giant bonfire
1969 Topps: Master # 1 1
1987 Kraft Dinners Home Plate Heroes

pandrews

i know nothing about the bazookas.. i wouldnt know a counterfeit from a real one at all.. if i were a buyer for this, i could very well be throwing away my money and getting ripped off..

but i would still be more inclined to trust PSA's opinion..

Mac53

I appreciate this kind of information. Thanks. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there's a wealth of knowledge on the boards, and I try to take every bit of it in when it gets posted. Please keep it up.

DaBigHurt

I think we should keep in mind that it's hard to tell from just a scan if that card is counterfeit. PSA are the foremost experts and their trained and certified graders would catch such an obvious counterfeit - if it's even a counterfeit.

They get mine and should get the benefit of the doubt from everyone here. Nuff said!

Mac53

GoBravesGo

<< <i>PSA are the foremost experts and their trained and certified graders would catch such an obvious counterfeit - if it's even a counterfeit. >>

TOY STORY :
"While DaHurt speaks, Potato Head takes off his mouth and mimes kissing his own butt."

mudflap02

Why would someone go to all the trouble of counterfeiting a hand cut bazooka card that would only grade a 7?

I'm guessing that this auction ends on the shallow side of $30? But then again, I don't know Bazooka cards. Just seems like an odd choice.

kuntryboy

I don't know if the PSA card pictured above is a counterfeit but I do know that counterfeit 1963 Bazooka cards do exist. I also know that some of them found their way into GAI holders.

Related Link

A761506

Above is an authentic 1963 Bazooka Mays. Authentic 1963 bazooka's have dashes where the spacing and length is at random intervals around the cards.

The entire 1963 Bazooka set was counterfeited a few years ago. They were reproduced only as individual cards however, and each card has the exact same dash pattern around the edges, and all 4 corners have perfectly squared off dashes, also of equal length. Complete panels were never subject to counterfeiting. The guy who created them also ran his own grading company, FGA, which is what most, if not all, of these cards were originally holdered in when they entered the market.

Many can still be found in FGA holders, others who know about this and sell them have cracked them from the FGA holders, trimmed them much closer to the dashes and then sell them raw.

I like PSA, I support them 100%, they receive all of my grading business... this is not meant to be a knock against them, but there are bound to be mistakes such as this, and this one happened to be a good one to help others learn from.

stevek

Can a "known" genuine and "known" counterfeit be placed against one another with a larger scan?

cardfan07

Is there any chance that random printing got those corners and spacing? I own a 71 bazooka card, so I'm no expert by any means...

carew4me

A761506,

I think this post is informative and relevant. Great work.

If true then PSA grading should be stronger with this knowledge.

Thanks for sharing.

ldferg

what was the response of PSA when this was brought to their attention?

bobsbbcards

Have to agree with Josh on this one (nice work!)

Here's another scan of a '63 Panel. Again, notice on each of the cards that there are nine or ten full dashes of varying sizes across the top edge (not eight).



If a Bazooka counterfeit isn't trimmed close to the left and right edges, you'll also be able to see that there are no T-Shaped cutting marks at the top and bottom. The counterfeit ones, since they weren't in panels, have dashes around the whole card that are unconnected to any other card (similar to Hostess cards).

Bob

Cubfan

Interestingly, the dashes and spacing on the top left and bottom left corners of the real Mays (the one in the panel) differs from that of the real Aaron.

On the top left Mays, the dash points to an open space, the Aaron's top dash splits a dash on the upper portion of the card, making a T. The same is true for the bottom left as the Mays short dash points to an open space while the Aaron last dash splits the bottom dash making an upside down T.

Maybe the dashes and spaces were varied by card?

pandrews

<< <i>Have to agree with Josh on this one (nice work!) >>



but i DO trust Bob's opinion over 99.9% of all others..

cardfan07

Is there a pattern here??

Another Mays??

A761506

That one is real.

Since it's the same seller, I would give him the benefit of the doubt... he probably had no clue the other one was counterfeit and just sent them both in on the same order. PSA should have caught it because they graded the authentic one immediately before they graded the counterfeit, the cert's are sequential.

cardfan07

I must have misread what makes the card fake or not. But seeing the same card from the same seller, I had to find this thread again. I'd like to buy this card...but certainly don't want to buy a fake.